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Shake-n-Bake Instrument Rating

swjohnsey

Well Known Member
I'm and old guy (74) have a nice RV-4 that I didn't build (IO-360 CS) and some time and money on my hands. I don't think I would ever deliberate fly in IMC. The RV-4 isn't IFR legal. I have around 800 hours and fly around 200 hrs/year.

I have been toying with the idea of going to one of the schools. Thoughts? I'm not real crazy about having to get proficient in a 172 or something similar. I haven't flown one in 50 years, nothing but tailwheels for the last 500 hours.

What are some of the reputable schools? Is simulator time a good idea. I want something I can fly out and stay a couple of weeks to a month.
 
Do It

But, get your plane equipped and do it in your plane. I did it in my RV6 and loved it. Did some training first but got tired of it taking too long. Went to Gatts in Kansas. They were great, 4 days, took my test on the fifth.
 
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Another vote for GATTS in Manhattan Kansas. My instructor Michael was great. They will do it in your plane (if equipped) or one of theirs. I had most of the training done before getting there. I was able to complete the rating including the check ride in a few days of concentrated flying. I couldn't be more pleased.
 
I'd be real surprised if anybody reputable would work with you on an instrument rating in an RV-4 when the instructor in the back seat can't see the panel.

Don't worry about the C172. You'll be flying dual a whole bunch of the time and any checkout will likely be at most a formality and you'll do most of the checkout in just doing the instrument rating.
 
If I was trying to learn instrument flying I’d personally much rather do it in a 172 (or better yet a 182) than an RV-4. Slower airplane with heavier controls = more time to figure out what you’re doing. The instrument rating is about thinking, planning, and multitasking, not necessarily stick and rudder skills. (My opinion only, your mileage may vary)
 
+1

One of the big challenges when I first did my rating was staying ahead of everything. Slow and steady is what you want out of your plane for your first tries in the soup.
 
If I was trying to learn instrument flying I’d personally much rather do it in a 172 (or better yet a 182) than an RV-4. Slower airplane with heavier controls = more time to figure out what you’re doing. The instrument rating is about thinking, planning, and multitasking, not necessarily stick and rudder skills. (My opinion only, your mileage may vary)

After a 35 yr hiatus for instrument flight, I got recurrence training in my 7. Truly YMMV, but I would not do it any other way, while the technical aspects are certainly learnable, I would have wasted a lot of training time relearning in my 7. I was all round gages in the 80's but learning the Garmin panel was much more intensive than the head work. I got 80%, then spent he next year learning the next 15%. I was luck with an outstanding instructor that knew my panel.

Hand flying and keeping altitude, heading, airspeed was a total relearning experience. There seems to be just enough lag between the aircraft attitude change and the G3X indications that tied my brain in a knot. Keeping all dots and needles in the right place with tiny stick changes finally came together. You just can not get that in a 172.

The bottom line is get an appropriately equipped plane and do it!!
 
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I recommend getting the written done first. It will help when actually flying, for the lingo if nothing else. Get a few books, maybe on-line courses like Gleim or King. Find a local cfii to spend a little time with you and sign you off for the written. Then worry about the in-flight instruction.
 
I recommend getting the written done first. It will help when actually flying, for the lingo if nothing else. Get a few books, maybe on-line courses like Gleim or King. Find a local cfii to spend a little time with you and sign you off for the written. Then worry about the in-flight instruction.

That sounds like an excellent idea. After I get the written passed I can go to someplace like GATTS.
 
As

By shake and bake do you mean one of the accelerated programs? If so, check out this thread from POA: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/accelerated-ifr.79021/

Lots of info on accelerated training. It’s not for everyone and the consensus is if you don’t immediately continue to fly in the system you will quickly lose those new skills. Attitude flying, the cornerstone of IFR flight is a perishable skill.

As for the written, I highly recommend enrolling in a good ground school (doesn’t matter the format— ie in person, computer based, etc) to learn the book portion (rules, Regs, procedures, weather, etc) of IFR which IMO is 80% of flying IFR. If it were me I’d try to resist the temptation to take an exam prep course as IMO they only teach you how to take the test but provide little in way of understanding or depth on the knowledge you are being tested on.

Besides the RV-4 not being a suitable IFR platform for training and having difficulty finding a CFII willing to provide instruction in it, you will also probably run into problems finding a DPE willing to give you a check ride in it as well.
YMMV....
 
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Advice worth what you're paying for it. . .

If I were an instrument instructor. . . Oh wait!

While I am not actively instructing, and I often joke that I would not pay me for instruction. . . I have held a CFII/MEI for 28 years and I regularly fly in the IFR environment (IE, that's my job).

The Instrument Rating is the best "License to Learn" there is. Shake and Bake is perfectly fine and an efficient way to do things.

My recommendation would be prior to starting an accelerated course, get all of the book work done, maybe twice and pass the written exam. I have done some work with the interactive ground school applications from a large and well known online and catalog pilot's supply outfit from Ohio. My suggestion would be to download their app and give one of their practice lesson's a try. If you like it and it seems to work for you, I'd buy that and go through it. Maybe twice. Pass the written. Then find yourself a good school with a proven track record and preferably a fleet of Technically Advanced Aircraft. This is the way of the modern world and you will want to get used to the idea of operating in the system as it is today and in to the future. Then when all of that is behind, decide how much you want to upgrade your -4 to suit your needs.

Simply put, spend a little. If that works, spend a bunch, and then spend a ton!
 
Great idea

If you’ve got time and money available and like flying, getting the instrument rating is a total no-brainer awesome idea in my opinion. The best safety upgrade isn’t gadgetry, it’s pilot training, and training for the rating will absolutely make you a better and safer pilot.

Although it’s usually considered ideal to get it done in your own aircraft, I wouldn’t hesitate to go with a 172, Cherokee, etc. if that greases the skids with the school and examiner. The experience will also help you decide if and how you would upgrade avionics in your -4.

A good instructor will know how best to blend simulator and AC time.

I highly recommend a “real” groundschool rather than a test-cramming school, since so much of the rating is knowledge of the system.

Good luck!


I'm and old guy (74) have a nice RV-4 that I didn't build (IO-360 CS) and some time and money on my hands. I don't think I would ever deliberate fly in IMC. The RV-4 isn't IFR legal. I have around 800 hours and fly around 200 hrs/year.

I have been toying with the idea of going to one of the schools. Thoughts? I'm not real crazy about having to get proficient in a 172 or something similar. I haven't flown one in 50 years, nothing but tailwheels for the last 500 hours.

What are some of the reputable schools? Is simulator time a good idea. I want something I can fly out and stay a couple of weeks to a month.
 
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