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New (July 2017) Garmin ADS-B Products

SteinAir

Well Known Member
I haven't seen this out there yet, but it may be of interest to folks wondering about yet more ADSB solutions!

The GDL-82 is a neato inline box that you simply plug into your existing transponder installation and uses your existing antenna (but you will need to install the GPS antenna):

http://newsroom.garmin.com/press-re...-cost-effective-solution-ads-b-out-general-av

and these are receivers for both ADSB and/or XM.

http://newsroom.garmin.com/press-re...-all-one-portable-ads-b-and-siriusxm-aviation

I'm sure the G3Xpert folks can provide additional information!

GDL_82_InstallationDiagram_webready.jpg


Cheers,
Stein
 
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With the GDL-82 being a UAT out product, does it have anonymous mode capability when squawking VFR like other UAT products?
 
If I read this correctly with my GDL 39 D, GTX 327 and 796 this solution would make me ADS-B compliant, is that correct? Quite a bit cheaper than replacing the 327 with the 335 transponder and less behind the panel work. I assume that the GDL-82 GPS would become the master?
Figs
 
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Not as of yet. I have many Mexican citizen aircraft owner customers and they scoff every time I bring up the ADS-B out issue. They have zero plans to implement ADS-B in their aircraft whether X-numbered or N-numbered. Many of whom are well connected with the government of Mexico and "in the know".

And I sat next to avionics tech from Canada at an AEA training seminar last Fall and understand from him NavCananda is only going to require ADS-B out in one or two territorial regions, at least for any time in the immediate future.

So almost all the pressure to equip is coming from the FAA and big avionics manufacturers. Not our neighbors to the North and South.

Jim
 
Does anyone know how the Garmin mail in rebate works. Do I need to go to Airventure or can I send a "proxy"? Does the purchase need to be made at the show?
 
Glad I waited

Glad I waited to ditch my Garmin 327.
This looks like a very neat and simple solution for a good price.
 
Hope you

If I read this correctly with my GDL 39 D, GTX 327 and 796 this solution would make me ADS-B compliant, is that correct? Quite a bit cheaper than replacing the 327 with the 335 transponder and less behind the panel work. I assume that the GDL-82 GPS would become the master?
Figs

Figs,, Hope you are correct on this! My airplane has the same ,, 327 and 796
 
Very interesting solution to the problem of our motorglider project. It's got a simple MGL panel, and I have been wondering what we'll do for transponder and ADS-B. Well.....I just took the 327 out of the RV-8 and replaced it with a 345. So I could put the 327 in teh Xenos, add this little box - and I have "Out". Don't really need "IN", but if I need it, that little $199 dongle from ForeFlight is interesting.....
 
Replacing 327

Paul - any chance you can report the details of your 327 replacement with a 345? I'm thinking of doing the same but am worried about space and wiring.
 
Paul - any chance you can report the details of your 327 replacement with a 345? I'm thinking of doing the same but am worried about space and wiring.

I know you;'re talking about your -8, so I understand the worry about spacing. If the back of your transponder lines up with the cross-bar, then it is VERY tight - I had to use a 90 degree BNC adapter to make it work, and massage how the wires come out of the Garmin connector on teh back of the box so that they went sort of sideways instead of straight out the back. It does fit - but it is close. If your transponder doesn't line up with the crossbar, you'll be fine.

Mechanically changing the rack took about 30 minutes - you can use the same screw holes for both 327 and 345 racks.

The wiring changes are minimal and easy - just keep track of which serial channels are going where. Because I mix and match various brands for testing, I had to do some research to make sure how the GRT EFIS., TT Autopilot, Avidyne 440, and Garmin 345 would talk to each other - and still make sure I coudl slide the Avidyne out and put a 430W back in!
 
Than you Paul for answering a question I've been pondering about the spacing. My 327 is mounted at the cross bar level. Maybe it is a non
issue now!
 
wondering

wondering why this GDL 82 is not getting the attention.
GDL 52/51 seems to get all the reviews and yet almost everybody has some sort of ADS-b in already.
It is ADS-B out that seems to be the issue for most people especially those with a 327tx.
Just wondering out loud why this neat little box is not splashed all over the front page???
 
wondering why this GDL 82 is not getting the attention.
GDL 52/51 seems to get all the reviews and yet almost everybody has some sort of ADS-b in already.
It is ADS-B out that seems to be the issue for most people especially those with a 327tx.
Just wondering out loud why this neat little box is not splashed all over the front page???


I'm very excited about this product myself and was wondering the same... I thought I was maybe missing something.
 
GDL-82

Gil, you say

??Works in the US....no trip to Canada''

Did I miss something...is that new box program to stop working at the border..;)

Bruno
 
With the GDL-82 being a UAT out product, does it have anonymous mode capability when squawking VFR like other UAT products?

Hello Jim,

Yes, you can configure the GDL 82 to transmit in anonymous mode anytime the transponder code is set to 1200.

cf-lg.jpg


Thanks,
Steve
 
Anonymous Mode

Not to beat a dead horse and this product looks very promising, but in anonymous mode does ATC still get an A/C identifiable code they can track?
I'm honestly not as concerned about other aircraft knowing who I am as I am Uncle Sam riding along.

Your website states that it de-identifies you to other aircraft but it doesn't say if ATC can identify you.
 
Hello Jim,

Yes, you can configure the GDL 82 to transmit in anonymous mode anytime the transponder code is set to 1200.

cf-lg.jpg


Thanks,
Steve

Hi Steve. I have a question about the WAAS Gps. Can this gps provide position
For IFR instruments? If so, which would be a viable experimental solution? Thanks.
 
Gil, you say

´´Works in the US....no trip to Canada''

Did I miss something...is that new box program to stop working at the border..;)

Bruno
The GDL-82 is a UAT-OUT device so only transmits on 978Mhz. UAT is not an ADS-B compliant solution acceptable anywhere else in the world. At least not yet.

:cool:
 
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In lieu of using the GDL-82's internal WAAS GPS receiver can a panel mount GNS 430W provide position source? This would eliminate a need for the GDL-82's external GPS antenna.

Jim
 
Compliant out is not required anywhere else in the World. Yet. Or here in the USA. Yet. Regardless, the GDL-82 is a fully 2020 compliant ADS-B out solution good enough for the FAA to qualify for the $500 rebate. I know of very few RVs that fly over 18000', have 12" N Numbers or cross the pond. Mexico and Latin America are decades from mandatory compliance despite what our domestic beaucrats say. While the device is a UAT solution transmitting on 978Mhz it can be configured to send out a message telling the ground stations the aircraft is capable of recieving both 978Mhz and 1090mHz "in" signals. So no matter what "in" solution the aircraft owner chooses (or later changes on a whim) there is no missing FIS-B or TIS-B data. Combine full "in" capability with this 2020 compliance device and VFR anonymous mode and rebate eligibility and this is an awesome combination. Since the transponder or static system are not disturbed in the installation the work should be able to be done by an EAB owner or regular A&P without needing to have a repair station sign off.

I predict these things are going to sell like hotcakes.

Jim
 
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In lieu of using the GDL-82's internal WAAS GPS receiver can a panel mount GNS 430W provide position source? This would eliminate a need for the GDL-82's external GPS antenna.

Jim

Hello Jim,

Yes, the GDL 82 has an RS-232 port that can accept ADS-B+ position data from the following WAAS GPS navigators:

  • GTN 6XX/7XX series navigators with software v6.21 or later
  • GNS 4XXW/5XXW series navigators with software v5.30 or later
  • GNS 480 navigator with software version 2.4 or later

When you are able to take advantage of this, the installation gets even easier.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Hi Steve. I have a question about the WAAS Gps. Can this gps provide position
For IFR instruments? If so, which would be a viable experimental solution? Thanks.

Hello Al,

No, the WAAS GPS inside the GDL 82 is only used by the GDL 82.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Within about 100nm of the Canadian border I can get the ADSB in signals through my Stratus. This covers almost all my Canadian needs and I have cancelled my satellite XM weather. As far as I know the we, in Canada, are not going to be using the ADBS system in the near future. I understand that to fly into the USA after 2020 I will need the equipment in my aircraft. Prices have fallen off a lot in the last couple of years and I am going to wait a bit longer before I make the change.
 
Not to beat a dead horse and this product looks very promising, but in anonymous mode does ATC still get an A/C identifiable code they can track?
I'm honestly not as concerned about other aircraft knowing who I am as I am Uncle Sam riding along.

Your website states that it de-identifies you to other aircraft but it doesn't say if ATC can identify you.

Hello Bryan,

Good question.

The GDL 82 configuration holds your aircraft registration (N) number and a 24 bit ICAO code, the latter of which is computed from the aircraft N number in the U.S. In normal operation, both ICAO address and Flight ID identify your aircraft to others.

When the GDL 82 is set to the configured transponder VFR code (1200 in U.S.) and is put into anonymous mode (via an installed switch that grounds pin 5), the GDL 82 transmits a random ICAO address (and identifies it as a temporary address within the address type field) instead of the aircraft's assigned ICAO address and transmits a temporary Flight ID of "VFR" instead of the aircraft's N number.

Thanks,
Steve
 
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In lieu of using the GDL-82's internal WAAS GPS receiver can a panel mount GNS 430W provide position source? This would eliminate a need for the GDL-82's external GPS antenna.

Jim
Not clear on why one would want to bypass this internal position source in the 82 for a panel mounted one. I think that is the major item in this product that makes it an attractive solution. If one already had a qualified panel mounted position source then getting a UAT "out" would be much less expensive than the 82 product. Although there would be the installation cost.
 
Not clear on why one would want to bypass this internal position source in the 82 for a panel mounted one. I think that is the major item in this product that makes it an attractive solution. If one already had a qualified panel mounted position source then getting a UAT "out" would be much less expensive than the 82 product. Although there would be the installation cost.

Dennis,

Good question. My thinking is why drill more holes, attach more antennas and add weight and drag to your aircraft than is needed? Add in the extra labor and installation of said antenna. If you have an existing approved position source all you have to do is run one 2-conductor shielded wire from the panel mount navigator to the GDL-82. Woola. Clean, easy, light and quick. Very elegant for aircraft with a TSO'd WAAS navigator in the panel. And unlike other UAT out products there is no trip to an FAA repair station to re-certify your transponder and encoder.

If you know of a cheaper, easier way for an aircraft with or without an existing approved TSO'd GPS navigator to comply with the 2020 ADS-B out mandate while being eligible for the $500 FAA rebate (so that GDL-82 parts come in at $1,300) I am all ears. I am surprised you have found a more economical 2020 compliant solution for any certified or experimental airframe.

I think Garmin listens to us, their customers. Smart like a fox.

Jim
 
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If you know of a cheaper, easier way for an aircraft with or without an existing approved TSO'd GPS navigator to comply with the 2020 ADS-B out mandate while being eligible for the $500 FAA rebate (so that GDL-82 parts come in at $1,300) I am all ears. I am surprised you have found a more economical 2020 compliant solution for any certified or experimental airframe.

Jim

I believe GRT is selling their UAT solution for $1390 - but that includes ADSB-in as well as -out.
 
Jim , that does get the price down well if you re able to buy for 1700 and get the 500 rebate. Have to agree that solution looks like the winner for today. Especially on certified aircraft.
 
Anyone know how the set up is done for the 82? Is that something you do with a lap top or is that done by Garmin? Does it make any difference if Exp or certified?
 
Does anyone know for certain that the GDL-82 be eligible for the $500 rebate? The word on the street is it's "expected" to be certified and available in Q4. It's new so it's not on the list on the FAA site for the rebate..........yet?

If so, it's a sure fire winner.

I already have a GDL-39 3D that I use with my Aera 660 and adding this GDL-82 would be awesome. I love the fact that I have an "ALL GARMIN" panel already so if the GDL-82 is eligible for the rebate, I'm all in for this device. :D

The anonymous mode is just icing on the cake.:cool:
 
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Does anyone know for certain that the GDL-82 be eligible for the $500 rebate? The word on the street is it's "expected" to be certified and available in Q4. It's new so it's not on the list on the FAA site for the rebate..........yet?

If so, it's a sure fire winner.

I already have a GDL-39 3D that I use with my Aera 660 and adding this GDL-82 would be awesome. I love the fact that I have an "ALL GARMIN" panel already so if the GDL-82 is eligible for the rebate, I'm all in for this device. :D

The anonymous mode is just icing on the cake.:cool:

I believe the rebate program ends in September
 
Yes, that last day to reserve your rebate is September 18.

I am wondering if the GDL-82 will qualify for the rebate.

Garmin experts??? Anyone, anyone?
 
Yes, that last day to reserve your rebate is September 18.

I am wondering if the GDL-82 will qualify for the rebate.

Garmin experts??? Anyone, anyone?

Garmin said it does qualify. You will need to reserve, but you have some time to get and install and test the equipment.
 
Installation

Regarding the "installation" part of the ADS-B rebate process: the FAA states the process of purchasing and scheduling installation of the avionics to qualify for the rebate. Can you install yourself and still get the rebate or must it be done by an avionics shop?
 
Thanks Jesse.

I plan on reserving and when it's available get one. It's a great ADS-B out solution for me with my GDL-39 3D and Aera 660.

Shawn
 
The anonymous mode is just icing on the cake.:cool:

EDIT: I am leaving my original post below "as is" for consistency but let it be known the information I got at the Garmin tent was wrong. So most of what I wrote below is wrong too. I finally talked to the right people at Garmin today (two days after this post was first presented). I have now pre-ordered two units since the anonymous mode misinformation has been cleared....

I just canceled my GDL-82 pre-order. The shoe dropped. The new Garmin offering has "fake" anonymous mode.

I thought it sounded too good to be true about anonymous mode being, as Shawn put it, "the icing on the cake". I still wanted more due diligence and after spending time at the Garmin tent at Oshkosh it was revealed that in order to appease the FAA Garmin made anonymous mode on the GDL-82 anonymous to private citizens but not to ATC. This is unlike competitive UAT offerings that provide actual random ICAO codes when anonymous. So the GDL-82 anonymous mode merely keeps other aircraft and FlightAware hobbiests from knowing your identity. Despite the fact that UAT combined with Mode C has always had the right to full anonymity from both private and public entities.

There is no specification under the mandate for VFR traffic to be identified as long as that traffic complies with the actual ADS-B out mandate for position, altitude and other parameters. It is supposed to be the VFR aircraft operator's prerogative. It's this type of behind the scenes certification manipulation that might give the appearance that safety and the modernization of the ATC system is being compromised by other interests. Impressions are important.

Jim
 
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I just canceled my GDL-82 pre-order. The shoe dropped. The new Garmin offering has "fake" anonymous mode.

I thought it sounded too good to be true about anonymous mode being, as Shawn put it, "the icing on the cake". I still wanted more due diligence and after spending time at the Garmin tent at Oshkosh it was revealed that in order to appease the FAA Garmin made anonymous mode on the GDL-82 anonymous to private citizens but not to ATC. This is unlike competitive UAT offerings that provide actual random ICAO codes when anonymous. So the GDL-82 anonymous mode merely keeps other aircraft and FlightAware hobbiests from knowing your identity. Despite the fact that UAT combined with Mode C has always had the right to full anonymity from both private and public entities.

There is no specification under the mandate for VFR traffic to be identified as long as that traffic complies with the actual ADS-B out mandate for position, altitude and other parameters. It is supposed to be the VFR aircraft operator's prerogative. It's this type of behind the scenes certification manipulation that might give the appearance that safety and the modernization of the ATC system is being compromised by other interests. Impressions are important.

Jim

This is contradictory to what Garmin posted in post #28. Wonder which is true.
 
This is contradictory to what Garmin posted in post #28. Wonder which is true.

Hello engineerorange,

The information in this posting should be accurate.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1189888&postcount=28

When your transmitted data stream does not contain either your ICAO address or your Flight ID, there should be no way for anyone to identify you.

Jim, if you could email [email protected], we can discuss the misunderstanding.

Thanks,
Steve
 
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I just canceled my GDL-82 pre-order. The shoe dropped. The new Garmin offering has "fake" anonymous mode.

I thought it sounded too good to be true about anonymous mode being, as Shawn put it, "the icing on the cake". I still wanted more due diligence and after spending time at the Garmin tent at Oshkosh it was revealed that in order to appease the FAA Garmin made anonymous mode on the GDL-82 anonymous to private citizens but not to ATC. This is unlike competitive UAT offerings that provide actual random ICAO codes when anonymous. So the GDL-82 anonymous mode merely keeps other aircraft and FlightAware hobbiests from knowing your identity. Despite the fact that UAT combined with Mode C has always had the right to full anonymity from both private and public entities.

There is no specification under the mandate for VFR traffic to be identified as long as that traffic complies with the actual ADS-B out mandate for position, altitude and other parameters. It is supposed to be the VFR aircraft operator's prerogative. It's this type of behind the scenes certification manipulation that might give the appearance that safety and the modernization of the ATC system is being compromised by other interests. Impressions are important.

Jim
jim, would you mind explaining how ATC can receive the ICAO code but not private citizens? If Steve's explanation in post #28 of this thread is accurate how is ATC going to be able to pick that signal out of the air when others cannot?
 
Sorry for the delayed response. Traveled all day getting home from OSH. I will contact Steve (g3expert) directly. But the Garmin employee at the ADS-B display answering questions volunteered the ATC/Private differences to myself and a crowd of at least 7 people. He must have been way off. Because you are right. How could the unit datastream be interpretated differently by different recievers. The guy in the blue Garmin shirt might have caused me to go on without thinking. Unfortunately at least one other potential customer didn't like his answer either and we both had a long discussion together in the Garmin tent. I have to conclude they had the wrong Garmin guy in the ADS-B area of the tent.

Jim
P.S. Stearman Field near Wichita rocks as a fuel and food stop.
 
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Sorry for the delayed response. Traveled all day getting home from OSH. I will contact Steve (g3expert) directly. But the Garmin employee at the ADS-B display answering questions volunteered the ATC/Private differences to myself and a crowd of at least 7 people. He must have been way off. Because you are right. How could the unit datastream be interpretated differently by different recievers. The guy in the blue Garmin shirt might have caused me to go on without thinking. Unfortunately at least one other potential customer didn't like his answer either and we both had a long discussion together in the Garmin tent. I have to conclude they had the wrong Garmin guy in the ADS-B area of the tent.

Jim
P.S. Stearman Field near Wichita rocks as a fuel and food stop.
Yes, when it comes to the Garmin tent at OSH, our flying group always finds Steve to discuss details. He might direct us to someone else but we have the opportunity before we talk with anyone else to find out his take on things first.

Stearman is a great place for food for sure. You might try Paola, KS (K81) also. They have a great BBQ restaurant in the terminal building. Great BBQ and a great breakfast too. By the way, if you fly into K81 you may run into Steve (G3Expert) there also.
 
GDL-82 and Rebate

FYI- When I tried to register for the FAA rebate today the GDL-82 was not a listed UAT device. I received the following response from FAA ADS-B Rebate Center when I queried them about this.

"We have confirmed with Garmin that GDL-82 has not received the TSO yet. They expect to have the TSO and STC around the end of October. This equipment cannot be used at this time for the ADS-B rebate. Any application for the ADS-B rebates must be done on our website.

The last day to apply for the rebate is 9/18/17. Thanks."

The GDL-82 looks like a good solution for many certified aircraft that do not have a 2020 compatible position source and a non-mode S transponder. However, if it is not eligible for the rebate I may wait to see what else becomes available. There area couple of companies with experimental ADS-B systems that are working on certification.

V/R,

John P
 
Clarified.... All is good

I had some excellent communications with Steve et al at Garmin. I wish I had known where he was at the tent and talked directly to him.

Bottom line. The GDL-82 is in fact as anonymous as it comes and is so instantly upon switch selection. That's great news.

So I put in another order. It's unfortunate if the unit doesn't TSO prior to the rebate application deadline but that's not a deal killer for me. The product is the right one for ease of installation and other features I want.

Jim
 
Surprised the FAA didn't suggest simply picking a different ADS-B product for the initial application, then changing it to the GDL 82 for the final installation and verification. They specifically state on their website that this is allowed:

What if different equipment is installed on the aircraft than what was originally intended and entered on the reservation form?

Due to circumstances that may arise, aircraft owners may install different equipment than originally planned and still be eligible for the rebate so long as what is installed aligns with the program rules. The equipment that is actually installed must be entered on the Public ADS-B Performance Report request and also on the Rebate Claim Form.

mcb
 
Surprised the FAA didn't suggest simply picking a different ADS-B product for the initial application, then changing it to the GDL 82 for the final installation and verification. They specifically state on their website that this is allowed:



mcb
If they do not make it on the list before the September 18th deadline this is the route I intend to go. I am hopeful Garmin will stay on the ball and be able to deliver before the 150 day deadline from registration. At any rate, I think it wise to hold off on registering for a bit to see what Garmin tells us concerning delivery.
 
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