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IFR and aerobatics question

ChiefPilot

ChiefPilot

Well Known Member
...sort of, anyway :)

The weather around here for the next couple of days is supposed to be marginal VFR or IFR with ceilings between 700 and 1500 feet and tops below 4000' or so. I'd like to do some acro, so I'm wondering about how I might accomplish this. Never having filed IFR to/from an area suitable for aerobatics per 91.303 I'm wondering which approach might be recommended:

1) File IFR from the airport to a fix at an altitude on top of the undercast and a second plan from the fix back to the airport. Activate first plan, navigate to the fix, cancel IFR on top, do acro, activate the second plan and return.
2) File IFR from the airport to the lat/lon of the acro airspace and ask for VFR on top when able. Cancel VFR on top when done and return on IFR plan to airport.
3) Don't - this is a stupid idea. Go bake some chocolate chip cookies instead.

This is mostly a thought exercise and is something that not many light aircraft could accomplish (IMC->acro->IMC->approach). However, many RVs would be up to the task so I'm wondering if this has been/is being done?
 
File from your departure airfield to destination airfield via a fix in the center of the airspace, file a delay at the fix (e.g FIX/D0+30), and file a block altitude (050B070). Add a description of the delay and airspace in the remarks (e.g. delay in north practice area 050B070 E:1800Z X:1830Z) If the area isn't locally defined, it might be a little more difficult. You can also try delaying within x miles of a fix, or a VOR quadrant between x and y DME. Call up your local approach on the phone and ask them what they would like to see.

If you go VFR on top, VFR cloud clearances apply. If you stay IFR in a block, you can have some fun with the clouds. Just make sure the controller understands your intentions.

Cross check your gyros before the descent.

Paige
 
#3

"3) Go bake some chocolate chip cookies instead."

Cookies are always a good idea
 
Call your local FSS

Call your local FSS and let them walk you through this. I have done this several times to get through a low local layer. Your question is a good one but how to file depends greatly on your local airspace. Again, just call the FSS and they'll do all the work. We are paying their salaries after all!
 
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Seriously?

This fits right into the mentality of flying instrument approaches when you know the weather is below minimums. Or shutting down the engine for "practice" emergency landings.

Really? Wait til the weather improves.

Jim
 
SMRacer said:
This fits right into the mentality of flying instrument approaches when you know the weather is below minimums. Or shutting down the engine for "practice" emergency landings.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to why you think this? If the tops at at 4000' and you go up to 7-8000 for some acro while VFR-on-top in an area appropriate for aerobatics, what do you see is the issue? Would you feel differently if the acro area was VFR?
 
Way-back, and a long time ago......... I was instructing at NAS Kingsville, TX. We often launched on an IFR clearance, with a substantial delay on top, and with a pre-determined approach time. In case of NORDO, which happened sort of routinely, we would commence the (Tacan) approach on the appointed time. (Our radios weren't very reliable, and we shot a few NORDO IFR approaches!)

If you have the proper equipment and training, I think it is a great idea. Why not polish both (IFR & Aerobatic) skills on the same flight. Don't let the nay-sayers get you down!
 
Really?

Go bake some chocolate chip cookies instead, be always conscious what will be happening in case of technical problem..
 
Below minimums?

SMRacer said:
This fits right into the mentality of flying instrument approaches when you know the weather is below minimums. Or shutting down the engine for "practice" emergency landings.

Really? Wait til the weather improves.

Jim
Click to expand...

Who said anything about weather below minimums?
 
The how to do it is pretty simple.
File with a delay. File IFR to VFR on top. File from A to B and cancel when you get on top.
The why somebody would do it is the better question.
 
I don't think I would do it....

"What if"

Gyro's tumble and don't align back up?

Break an engine mount?

G loading causes some other issue to cause a forced landing?

Virtigo above cloud layer?

It just seems like the risk would be higher, for little gain.

Not that I am beating you up for asking the question, becasue I do think it is a great question of "why wouldn't you try it".
 
Things that go Boo in the dark..

SmilingJack said:
I don't think I would do it....

"What if"

Gyro's tumble and don't align back up?

Break an engine mount?

G loading causes some other issue to cause a forced landing?

Virtigo above cloud layer?

It just seems like the risk would be higher, for little gain.

Not that I am beating you up for asking the question, becasue I do think it is a great question of "why wouldn't you try it".
Click to expand...

Every one of those things can happen on any flight. Should we not fly because of the stuff that can go wrong? Either you trust your plane or you don't. If you don't trust it don't fly it. If you do, fly it anywhere at anytime you are comfortable with it. Mitigating risk is something we do on every flight, but not doing something that is safe and legal because of things that go "boo" in the dark doesn't resonate with me.
 
RV8iator said:
Every one of those things can happen on any flight. Should we not fly because of the stuff that can go wrong? Either you trust your plane or you don't. If you don't trust it don't fly it. If you do, fly it anywhere at anytime you are comfortable with it. Mitigating risk is something we do on every flight, but not doing something that is safe and legal because of things that go "boo" in the dark doesn't resonate with me.
Click to expand...

True.

But, the question was asked and that is how I feel. It just seems to me that in VFR conditions one would have an much easier time finding there way to the ground if there is a problem that requires a forced landing or if one loses a required attitude indicator above IMC.

If we are talking about risk mitigation:

How about conducting VFR on top aero near a known area - say...open field below..... Or carry an extra atitude indicator like a Dynon D1 if all heck breaks lose after all the G-loads of fun.

Just suggestions from the original question.
 
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SmilingJack said:
How about conducting VFR on top aero near a known area - say...open field below..... .
Click to expand...

The fact that it is overcast does not relieve the pilot of the FAR prohibition against aerobatics over congested areas, so "over a known area" goes without saying.
 
ChiefPilot said:
...sort of, anyway :)

The weather around here for the next couple of days is supposed to be marginal VFR or IFR with ceilings between 700 and 1500 feet and tops below 4000' or so. I'd like to do some acro, so I'm wondering about how I might accomplish this. Never having filed IFR to/from an area suitable for aerobatics per 91.303 I'm wondering which approach might be recommended:

1) File IFR from the airport to a fix at an altitude on top of the undercast and a second plan from the fix back to the airport. Activate first plan, navigate to the fix, cancel IFR on top, do acro, activate the second plan and return.
2) File IFR from the airport to the lat/lon of the acro airspace and ask for VFR on top when able. Cancel VFR on top when done and return on IFR plan to airport.
3) Don't - this is a stupid idea. Go bake some chocolate chip cookies instead.

This is mostly a thought exercise and is something that not many light aircraft could accomplish (IMC->acro->IMC->approach). However, many RVs would be up to the task so I'm wondering if this has been/is being done?
Click to expand...

I like your spirit. It sounds like something I would do. The only think you forgot to include is a stop for BBQ!

Jerry Esquenazi
RV-8 N84JE
 
BobTurner said:
The fact that it is overcast does not relieve the pilot of the FAR prohibition against aerobatics over congested areas, so "over a known area" goes without saying.
Click to expand...

So I guess flying over the non populated Rocky Mountains qualifies as non congested area's then?

Call me a wuss....but I ain't flying aero over a solid overcast even over a 1000 acre cornfield in Nebraska!

Again, to each there own..... But I was just trying to give my own 2cents to the gentlemen that asked what I had thougt was a good question to receive the pro's and con's of that type of flight.
 
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