Question for the quick builders...

I plan on ordering my tools and empennage kit before cold weather hits this year and building it through the winter. After that, I'm undecided. My question is this, For those of you who went all QB, how much work is there to do before another major purchase (engine, panel) is required. My goal is to build on cash only, so I may need to do a Standard Build on the wings and just get a QB fuselage so that my progress with the plane falls in line with my ability to save for the next subkit/engine/ect.

Opinions, please?

Secondly, does the price on Vans website for the QB include the empennage and finishing kits?

Your opinions and answers are appreciated!

Josh

Time and Money

RVAddict said:

.......Your opinions and answers are appreciated!
Josh

Click to expand...

Josh,

The development of match hole construction has so dramatically changed the way we build airplanes that the QB advantage is not nearly as great as once was. Wanna save at least $4875 building your RV? Go with the Standard fuselage kit. You will likely save even more money in shipping costs, derive greater satisfaction knowing you shot all those rivets, become more intimately familiar with the components that go into your airplane, be able to prime the airframe in the manner of your choosing and by Van's own admission, if you are skilled, build in significantly greater overall quality than the overseas labor force does.

Everybody comes to the table with a different skill set so it is pointless to opine on how much time you will actually save Standard versus QB. All I can say is I transformed a Standard RV-8 kit to QB status in mere weeks, about 2 months but you should know I am an experienced builder with a wide variety of tools already at hand. Naturally, YMMV.

One more thing, and this can vary greatly: Depending upon the timing and current availability of a QB fuselage, it is entirely possible a given builder may have to wait additional MONTHS to receive a QB fuselage assembled and shipped from overseas as opposed to ordering a Standard built fuselage kit crated and shipped from Oregon though a call to Van's should answer that specific question quickly enough.

Hi Josh,

I built (most of) an RV7A slow build. There are many reasons to choose one over the other. If I was to do it again I would probably go QB, but that is not to say I choose incorrectly the first time. I just know enough now to inspect other people's work and probably wouldn't want to build an entire airframe again.

I would expect a QB kit would reduce the amount of time you had to save for the bigger parts quite significantly. In fact I would build the Emp first and then the fuse. I wouldn't even take the wings out of the box until final assembly. Given the lead time on engines, props avionics, you would want to order a lot of this stuff pretty quickly. I think the wings are far better value as a QB (and you avoid the fuel tank woes). Most of the work is done for you, whereas the fuse is no where close to complete out of the box and it is a lot less repetitive to build (more fun).

One thing not many builders seem to say is that the slowbuild requires a lot more assistance from helpers (as there are many rivets that are difficult or impossible to do on your own). Of those that build slow build kits and achieve better results it is always because they have help. I've been lucky to have someone to work with me the entire project. If you don't have access to someone you might do better with the QB.

Its also true that a match hole kit is a lot easier to assemble than prior kits so the value is reduced somewhat.

Just remember when you finish the airframe you are only 50% done.

Richard
RV7A Finishing

Rick6a said:

and by Van's own admission, if you are skilled, build in significantly greater overall quality than the overseas labor force does.

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Not being critical, just think this statement needs a little more examination. I'm starting a QB -9A and am unexperienced. In my short time looking at other RVs, I would say the workmanship by the QB builders is much better than the average SB builder. The QB rivet quality seems high and very, very consistent. Frankly when my QB fuse and wing arrived I was very glad I had gone that route...lots of riveting saved.

However, as the OP stated, that is not his #1 goal, so indeed a standard kit might serve his purpose best.

rwtalbot said:

Hi Josh,

I would expect a QB kit would reduce the amount of time you had to save for the bigger parts quite significantly. In fact I would build the Emp first and then the fuse. I wouldn't even take the wings out of the box until final assembly. Given the lead time on engines, props avionics, you would want to order a lot of this stuff pretty quickly. I think the wings are far better value as a QB (and you avoid the fuel tank woes). Most of the work is done for you, whereas the fuse is no where close to complete out of the box and it is a lot less repetitive to build (more fun).

Just remember when you finish the airframe you are only 50% done.

Richard
RV7A Finishing

Click to expand...

Are you saying that the wings are harder to build than the fuse? Ill admit, I'm VERY intimidated by the fuselage. The wings look much easier to "Standard" build than the fuselage, but, I've never built an airplane before...

I'm abnormal

I built the emp first and then I had decided to build the wings slow build and do a quick build fuse. A fellow build said he would do it the other way around, quickbuild wings and slow build fuse. Being that I didn't have any experience, I went with his idea and started on the slow build fuse right after the tail. His reasoning was the wings get a little bit repetitive after a while, and just weren't as fun to build as the fuse. I have yet to buy the wings and in retrospect I am glad I did it this way.Right now I am working on my canopy skirt. I only have a 1 1/2 car garage so space is pretty limited. IMO, this turned out really well, I am not having to store or deal with the wings and I should be able to finish just about everything from the spinner to the tail. If the timing is right, the wings will arrive about the time this happens and I can take the fuse to the airport for storage and bring the quickbuild wings into the garage to finish them. For someone who has limited space, this is a good way to go IMO.

Randy
tail complete
fuse complete
8A finishing kit

One more thing

As a new builder, getting started is tough. Get some help from somebody local if you can. Just getting the thing going in the right direction will pick up some momentum. I can't tell you how helpful fellow builders sites are in the build. Some guys are so detailed and have saved me lots of mistakes and headaches. Just about everytime I start a new piece of the puzzle I will look at other builders sites to see what they have done. This website is great also, many thanks Doug.

Randy

my QB is becoming a Slow Build, but that's more my fault.. That pesky working/making a living/feeding my family thing. But I'm glad I went QB. It's airplane-shaped enough when it shows up, and it stays that way even if you let it sit for a couple of months at a time without working on it.

I went the QB because of time not money. since then the matched hole has come out. Im not sure I would do it again. None of the build is really "hard" but it is definitely time consuming.

RVAddict said:

Are you saying that the wings are harder to build than the fuse? Ill admit, I'm VERY intimidated by the fuselage. The wings look much easier to "Standard" build than the fuselage, but, I've never built an airplane before...

Click to expand...

Hi Josh,

The wings come mostly complete. The QB fuse does not - there is still a lot to do and I suspect it may be harder not having built from scratch. I really enjoyed building my wings and fuse, but like others have said the wings are repetitive. Also the wings have fuel tanks that have to be stuck together with proseal. That alone is sufficient reason for me. If I was going to QB one component it would be the wings. I just think it would give you the best head start on the project.

Like I said, leave them in the box or better still have Vans do some magic so you can purchase them later. To explain that further - the centre section the goes through the fuse and holds the wings on is match drilled with the spars. I am pretty sure they would probably help if asked.


Richard

Not matched

The wings are no longer match drilled with the fuse, at least on 8's. If you are going to buy the fuse first and then get the wings, make sure you get 3 long pieces of aluminum angle that are suppose to be shipped with the wings, you need them with the fuse, they just ship them with the wings to make things easier.

Randy