What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

See you later E!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Veetail88

Veetail88

Well Known Member
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen goodbye. :(

While I have absolutely no evidence to the following, it would not surprise me one bit.

Having gone through the latest issue of Sport Aviation magazine, it struck me that the EAA needs to change it's name.

Say hello to the "Aviation Association"!

Like any product, you just can't have a name that doesn't fit the mission, and certainly the Experimental part doesn't fit anymore. Part? Sure, but the current name implies that Experimental is the focus, and it's not.

I'm certain that the original group has been saying the same thing for years, that the Ameteur Built Aircraft Association would be more appropriate and that's hard to argue against, but this is different. This is a complete swing away from the roots.

Nope, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if there were already new logos designed, market research done and maybe even a new sign ordered for headquarters.

The amount of E/AB content in the latest issue is almost non existant, and that got me to thinking about AirVenture. I'm guessing it's only a matter of time until the experimentals and ameteur built sections get shuffled off to the ultralight area, and that gets pushed further south to make way for more commercial stuff. That's what you get hit with as soon as you step on the grounds anyway, and I'll bet that will continue to grow, pushing everything else out of the way, especially with the current direction our leadership is driving it.

The wonderful kits we enjoy today could not have existed without the Experimental guys blazing a path and now that segment is hard to find. Likewise, the kit built market has enabled the strongest growth in GA, i.e. ELSA, SLSA, etc. along with the higher dollars stuff, Cirrus, Columbia, etc. I guess it's just natural selection working.

Not happy about it, it's just what I see in my crystal ball.

So I bid you adeiu E.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen goodbye.

Goodbyeeeeeeee, goodbyeeeeeeeeee, goodbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......
 
"E" AA

It's been heading that way ever since the kid took over. I complained about the high dollar professionally built "kits" that they drooled over years ago. I remember when it was all about scratch built airplanes.
 
I have not chimed in on this topic in the many posts and rants that have flourished here for some time.
All I can say is that if it was my business I would be going where the money is, like any business.
If indeed the demand is there to support a dedicated "E" magazine, start one up. You might find that economics will dictate what that business model might look like.
Cancel your memberships, pool your resources, and start something new. You never know, in fifty years or so you may have your own museum, fly-in, and massive organization, but it probably won't ressemble what you started out to accomplish.

That said, yes, it is sad to see an organization that built itself on the platform of "E" drift off... but that is the reality.


Strictly one mans very opiniated opinion.
 
Yep

JonJay, you're absolutely right.

If ya wanna survive, ya gotta go where the money is.

I don't blame them. I'll not cancel my subscription. I'll subscribe to what ever subset of the AA I have to go get my fill and I'll keep going to AirVenture.

This was just my parting rant to E. I accept it. I'll move forward. No biggie.

On the up side, I'll get more excercize walking down to the E/AB area at OSH. :eek:
 
I dunno, I thought the recent issue of "DC-7 Monthly" aka Sport Aviation was ok. They should do a magazine like that, except for experimentals and homebuilts. THAT would be cool.
 
My membership expired four days ago and I've decided to not renew it. The magazine is just one thing but I got word last week about planned RV activities not happening at airventure (don't know if its public knowledge or not) and that alone was sufficient enough to tick me off.
 
It's been a few months since this has come up, and I figure it's about time we discuss it...again. :) I'm happy to do so. EAA will never be the organization it was when it was started, but all I can say is that the current leadership (of which I am a part of) is all about making sure homebuilding is at the top. I wouldn't be sitting at the senior table if not. We just talked about this in our meeting this past Tuesday. Rod is focused on what he wants, and if he didn't care about homebuilding, I wouldn't be where I'm at.

We are planning some big changes to the homebuilders area on the grounds. No, not shoving them off to the back, but changes that will bring the area more "Front and Center" as a main gathering area that will center on the homebuilders hangar. These won't be made in the next few months for this years show, but our five year plan has some great big plans in place for some great stuff in the future.

I understand there are some big frustrations out there...the magazine is still not where is needs to be for homebuilt content, but I'm working on it. Getting the content right is not something we are rushing in to, it has to be well thought out.

In the meantime, I am putting forth a proposal in two weeks for a new Experimenter online magazine. The feedback I have received in the last six months seems to be crying out for this type of publication, and we are moving forward with it.

I can't put out all of your fires, but I will certainly listen and do what I can.

BTW...there are no new logo's, plans to change the name, or new sign ordered. Rod believes in the name EAA, and the sacred ground it was founded on.

This year is gonna be a cool one at Oshkosh with Van's anniversary plans...hope to see you there! Stop by the homebuilders hangar to say hi, I will be there most of the week.
 
Last edited:
rocketbob said:
My membership expired four days ago and I've decided to not renew it. The magazine is just one thing but I got word last week about planned RV activities not happening at airventure (don't know if its public knowledge or not) and that alone was sufficient enough to tick me off.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that Bob...if you are referring to the 40 ship fly over, that is correct, it won't happen this year. The fears of airplanes flying over the crowds is high since Reno, and all of those involved on the safety team have decided to nix the over flights this year. Falcon flight will still be there, and expect an announcement very soon from HQ about another highly anticipated performance!

I led a teleconference this morning with those involved in the RV activities, and believe me, DVG day (Monday) is gonna be cool!
 
Last edited:
Veetail88 said:
Like any product, you just can't have a name that doesn't fit the mission, and certainly the Experimental part doesn't fit anymore. Part? Sure, but the current name implies that Experimental is the focus, and it's not.
Click to expand...

We have met the enemy and it is us.

Were it not for the RV slowbuild kit, I would not have built. So for that I am grateful. However, as someone that joined up with EAA a LONG time ago, I consider the slowbuild CHEATING and the rest as outright robbery. :rolleyes:
Don't quote rules. It won't change the way I feel.

So, considering the massive influx of kit assemblers that don't give a whit about scratchbuilding or experimentation (rather than car show customization) it is natural for EAA to tailor the business to that clientelle per JonJay.
 
cjensen said:
Sorry to hear that Bob...if you are referring to the 40 ship fly over, that is correct, it won't happen this year. The fears of airplanes flying over the crowds is high since Reno, and all of those involved on the safety team have decided to nix the over flights this year. Falcon flight will still be there, and expect an announcement very soon from HQ about another highly anticipated performance!

I led a teleconference this morning with those involved in the RV activities, and believe me, DVG day (Monday) is gonna be cool!
Click to expand...

Are T-6 overflights nixed as well?
 
rocketbob said:
Are T-6 overflights nixed as well?
Click to expand...

I can't speak specifically because I'm not part of that planning team, but I believe the routes are gonna be different. But they don't fly a large 40 ship either...and that was the biggest concern.

I believe (and I could be wrong) that Falcon Flight is still flying during the week, just not the large 40 ship fly over.

Stu sent an email last week saying that they were still going to fly.
 
EAA TC?...and stay involved

rocketbob said:
My membership expired four days ago and I've decided to not renew it. The magazine is just one thing but I got word last week about planned RV activities not happening at airventure (don't know if its public knowledge or not) and that alone was sufficient enough to tick me off.
Click to expand...

So, Bob, if your membership has expired, doesn't that mean that you are no longer an EAA TC? Perhaps you should update your VAF signature. :)

If you should change your mind, I'm sure EAA has a grace period on your membership renewal. Don't leave; anybody that feels as strongly as you should stay involved and be a part of the future of EAA.
 
This isn't the year to abandon the EAA

cjensen said:
I led a teleconference this morning with those involved in the RV activities, and believe me, DVG day (Monday) is gonna be cool!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was part of that teleconference and it appears that RVs and Van will be MUCH more prominent this year than ever before. The 40-ship will not happen but there are lots of other unique Van's and RV activities happening. I hope "another highly anticipated performance" is announced soon as I think there will be some folks on this forum who will be embarassed at some of the things written here in the last few months. The RV community has scored several major successes with AirVenture this year and it will serve us well to rally around these successes.

There are going to be several, unique RV give-aways/bonuses for everyone flying their RV into the Show. Fortunately, Paul and I plan to fly two planes in so we won't have to fight over the booty. We'll both get the memorabilia.

So, give up on the EAA in 2013 if you still feel it isn't serving us but I urge you to stick around one more year and experience AirVenture 2012 and, especially, Richard VanGrunsven Day on Monday. It is a very special year!
 
I don't want to rehash the epic prior thread, but I'll agree this month's issue felt weak on "E" (even taking into account that it was a safety-focused one).

Two examples that struck me -- and, Chad, I know you are working to improve this, so please see it in that light:
The AoA theory article and sidebar would have been a great springboard into "rolling your own AoA." In the SA of the past, I would have expected hints on building a lift reserve indicator with a Dwyer Minihelic gauge. I thought I would at least see a note about many of the current EFIS solutions just needing a probe and calibration. Instead, the callout is limited to "Of course, AOA sensors can be installed in experimental aircraft using the same approval procedure that have been in place in years." Yes, I realize the sidebar was focused on the new acceptance process by the FAA, but that in itself seems like a huge oversight. To call back to the thread title, "where's the 'E'?" Let's look at the "Hands On" section of the magazine, then.

The "Hands On" article on autopilots should have been, in my opinion, about HOW to implement an autopilot. Like, how to get a servo properly and safely attached to your control system... options to hook a non-capstan servo to cable-operated controls, best practices, etc. Instead, the first part of the article talks about some history, and the back half promotes Avidyne's DFC90. What was the "Hands On" part of that article? Where's the "E"?

Contrast the rest of the "Hands On" section with the "What our members are building/restoring" article about David Buntin's RV-8 (though it could have been any airplane). It had more weight and value, in my opinion, because it talked about how he created a canopy seal -- the problem, the thought process, the solution and how it works. I may never need a canopy seal, but it gave insight into what makes a champion custom aircraft, and the spark of creativity and artistry that goes into it. There's the "E"!

Tell me "what," explain to me "how" and "why," and I will have the inspiration and confidence to "do." That's the participation and involvement segment of EAA (and VAF, for that matter), and it's very powerful. Tell me only "what," and it becomes a museum exhibit, a curio.

I want to feel really enthused about AirVenture (Van's year and all), but it rings a bit hollow. I can't put my finger on it, but something feels out of sync.
 
I'm sure EAA has a grace period on your membership renewal...
Click to expand...

...Yes, and based upon my experience, it's at least 7 years. That's how long I kept getting the junk mail begging me to renew, and when I did renew so I could attend Osh, I got my old number back.
 
Last edited:
can't help myself from entering this conversation

because I have a very real fear in all of this -

Without EAA we (amatuer builders) will be steam rollered by the bureacrats into non-existense. We arent a big enough voting block to matter without EAA, we do not speak with a loud enough voice to matter without EAA, we don't throw around enough money to matter (with or without EAA), we don't elicit enough compassion from the caring politicos to matter without EAA, we are invisible without EAA etc etc etc.

It does not matter to me that the magazine has lost focus on me, or that Airventure is no longer Osh Kosh, or they don't show me how to make an AOA using a megnehelic (I can get that here) - it only matters that EAA continues to advocate on my behalf to protect my ability to legally practice my passion. It is the only federally recognized voice I have to speak up for me (and you).

Might sound over dramatic, but tell me how else am I going to have a voice as the regs continue their inevitable march. As long as they fill that advocating role, they deserve our support.

Don't throw out the good just because you don't like the change. Put up with your personal disatisfaction to preserve the good we all benefit from.

Rant over

PS. Want more "E", go read and contribute to "EEEEExperimenter"
 
Last edited:
WoodsRunner said:
Tell me "what," explain to me "how" and "why," and I will have the inspiration and confidence to "do." That's the participation and involvement segment of EAA (and VAF, for that matter), and it's very powerful. Tell me only "what," and it becomes a museum exhibit, a curio.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
rocketbob said:
......but I got word last week about planned RV activities not happening at airventure (don't know if its public knowledge or not) and that alone was sufficient enough to tick me off.
Click to expand...

Then someone somewhere is likely a bit less informed than they (or you) may think - and the word you got may not be the correct or final word. I too have some "word" as to planned RV activities, and they don't necessarily mesh with that synopsis at all. I think both Mon and Wed should be neat days, right Chad!?! :)

We're all entitled to our own opinions based on our own information and decision making process, mine's certainly no better than anyone elses - though sometimes my sources tend to be pretty darned good ones.

Cheers,
Stein
 
SteinAir said:
Then someone somewhere is likely a bit less informed than they (or you) may think - and the word you got may not be the correct or final word. I too have some "word" as to planned RV activities, and they don't necessarily mesh with that synopsis at all. I think both Mon and Wed should be neat days, right Chad!?! :)

We're all entitled to our own opinions based on our own information and decision making process, mine's certainly no better than anyone elses - though sometimes my sources tend to be pretty darned good ones.

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...

There are a lot of formation guys that are pretty disappointed that the 40-ship is a no-go and that was what I was speaking of since I was planning on being a part of it. Yet there are other aspects of the show one could easily argue are really no less of a crowd risk that what the FFI guys were planning on doing. I'll bite my lip on that one.
 
SteinAir said:
Then someone somewhere is likely a bit less informed than they (or you) may think - and the word you got may not be the correct or final word.
Click to expand...

Chad earlier in this thread confirmed that the Falcon Flight 40-Ship formation fly-by was not approved due to concerns growing out of the Reno incident. There may or may not be a Falcon Flight event of some kind. I don't know. I do know at least three significant events, new to AirVenture, are planned to showcase multiple RVs in the air during the week. So, if your interest is seeing RVs highlighted during the week, you'll be delighted. If the 40-ship formation is the only thing that will satisfy your vision of RV flights, well, yes, you have received a disappointing decision this year.
 
You can't always get what you want.....

rocketbob said:
There are a lot of formation guys that are pretty disappointed that the 40-ship is a no-go and that was what I was speaking of since I was planning on being a part of it.
Click to expand...

And I was never selected for the U.S. Olympic team. Am I disappointed? Yes. But, I still watch the games religiously and believe in them. Personal disappointment shouldn't define our support of worthy ventures, IMHO. Let's rally around the RV folks who succeeded in getting slots to be showcased at AirVenture this year.
 
Last edited:
rocketbob said:
There are a lot of formation guys that are pretty disappointed that the 40-ship is a no-go and that was what I was speaking of since I was planning on being a part of it. Yet there are other aspects of the show one could easily argue are really no less of a crowd risk that what the FFI guys were planning on doing. I'll bite my lip on that one.
Click to expand...

I can buy that and can understand the dissapointment related to it, but I also do understand the reasoning behind it as well. I'm fairly certain the folks making those decisions do not and have not taken any of them lightly or off the cuff.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Louise Hose said:
And I was never selected for the U.S. Olympic team. Am I disappointed? Yes. But, I still watch the games religiously and believe in them. Personal disappointment shouldn't define our support of worthy ventures, IMHO. Let's rally around the RV folks who succeeded in getting slots at AirVenture this year.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing my point. While I am happy and supportive of RV's being featured in the airshow, would have loved to be a part of it myself, I'm a bit bothered by some of the double standards and the political side to this decision. And thats what I am ticked off about.
 
Veetail88 said:
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen goodbye. :(........


........Not happy about it, it's just what I see in my crystal ball.

So I bid you adeiu E.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen goodbye.

Goodbyeeeeeeee, goodbyeeeeeeeeee, goodbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......
Click to expand...

Jesse,

I do not have time to read magazines these days but decided to take a look at the DC-7 issue of SA after reading your "auf Wiedersehen goodbye".

The first 9 pages are standard stuff in any magazine - a few ads, a list of articles, the chairman's report and formal information about the organization.

Page 10 reports a Win (for EAA) FAA clarifies AD's for Experimentals; plus EAA and FAA face off on safety; and a report on the EA-B survey.

Pages 12 and 13 contains news on the Aerochia LT-1, Icon's A5 LSA, Sonex, Zenith, plus a report on the F-16 departing RW 36 during OSH 2011.

Page 14 has some news on Aeroinnovatons.

Page 16 is the DC-7 story. Not specifically experimental but interesting to anyone who flies an airplane.

In progressing through the issue to page 90 (An Award Winning RV-8 story), there are many references to experimental aviation. True, the issue is not dedicated to grass roots riveting or rib stitching or messing with an auto engine conversion, but there is plenty of good stuff to read about what we do as builders and pilots, some of it dedicated to surviving what we do which is most needed.

The association is changing but it isn't detrimental to what we've loved about it in the past. Airplanes are easier to build today, the skills required 40 years ago are no longer necessary and consequently being lost. If that is a concern, there is opportunity to be in the old days if that is important. The door is not closed. Anyone can ditch the cell phone, a GPS, unplug the computer and do it the old way with raw materials if so inclined. But that is not the direction EAA is going because most people are not going there.

What's happening here is some members are getting off the flight (EAA) because the airplane has been upgraded to new modern equipment and they don't like it. I saw it in a previous life when flying for a living. When jets came along some did not like it and stayed with pistons until they died or retired. When the glass panel came along same thing happened, some did not like it and stayed with the old stuff as long as possible. Some people do not like change.

The emphasis today at EAA and within the FAA is safety. That is not bad. The point being, EAA has to change the culture to make things safer. The organization can not rest on its previous glory. Most people do not connect with it today anymore than they connect with lots of old stuff.

Its probably not all that important but that's how I view the situation.
 
Maybe I wasn't clear

David,

I don't disagree. I understand that the mission is changing. It is what it is.

I think it's pretty clear that EAA will always include it's roots.

I don't dislike reading Sport Aviation. Fact is, I pretty much enjoy anything that has anything to do with aircraft! It's the geek in me and I'm not ashamed of that!

I don't dislike going to AirVenture. In fact I Love going! Fortunately I live only an hour and a half away by car so I can go every year! Hopefully flying in soon!

I just really don't like to see home building taking such a diminishing role. I really don't understand why EAA has to be the "everything and everyone" organization. I understand that for the extremely important role of aviation advocacy we need might. I just don't get why our collective might can't come from joint efforts of EAA, AOPA, IAC, etc. Does it all have to come from one place?

The real point of this thread is simply that I don't really know how the organizaion can keep calling it's self the Experimental Aircraft Association when the E is not the major thrust. It becomes misleading.

Having said all that, I take solace in the thought that a lot of folks that are a lot more connected to the aviation world and political advocacy and the day to day operations of a huge organization probably know more than I about what's best for the club and for GA as a whole.

I'm thankful for and will support their efforts. I'll keep paying my dues. I'll keep enjoying the fruits of their efforts. I'm not going anywhere by choice my friend. I love this stuff!
 
Veetail88 said:
Having gone through the latest issue of Sport Aviation magazine, it struck me that the EAA needs to change it's name.

Say hello to the "Aviation Association"!
Click to expand...
So .... What other large scale aviation organization on the planet supports Experimental aircraft more than EAA:confused:

Good luck finding one :eek:
 
David-aviator said:
Jesse,

I do not have time to read magazines these days but decided to take a look at the DC-7 issue of SA after reading your "auf Wiedersehen goodbye".

The first 9 pages are standard stuff in any magazine - a few ads, a list of articles, the chairman's report and formal information about the organization.

Page 10 reports a Win (for EAA) FAA clarifies AD's for Experimentals; plus EAA and FAA face off on safety; and a report on the EA-B survey.

Pages 12 and 13 contains news on the Aerochia LT-1, Icon's A5 LSA, Sonex, Zenith, plus a report on the F-16 departing RW 36 during OSH 2011.

Page 14 has some news on Aeroinnovatons.

Page 16 is the DC-7 story. Not specifically experimental but interesting to anyone who flies an airplane.

In progressing through the issue to page 90 (An Award Winning RV-8 story), there are many references to experimental aviation. True, the issue is not dedicated to grass roots riveting or rib stitching or messing with an auto engine conversion, but there is plenty of good stuff to read about what we do as builders and pilots, some of it dedicated to surviving what we do which is most needed.

The association is changing but it isn't detrimental to what we've loved about it in the past. Airplanes are easier to build today, the skills required 40 years ago are no longer necessary and consequently being lost. If that is a concern, there is opportunity to be in the old days if that is important. The door is not closed. Anyone can ditch the cell phone, a GPS, unplug the computer and do it the old way with raw materials if so inclined. But that is not the direction EAA is going because most people are not going there.

What's happening here is some members are getting off the flight (EAA) because the airplane has been upgraded to new modern equipment and they don't like it. I saw it in a previous life when flying for a living. When jets came along some did not like it and stayed with pistons until they died or retired. When the glass panel came along same thing happened, some did not like it and stayed with the old stuff as long as possible. Some people do not like change.

The emphasis today at EAA and within the FAA is safety. That is not bad. The point being, EAA has to change the culture to make things safer. The organization can not rest on its previous glory. Most people do not connect with it today anymore than they connect with lots of old stuff.

Its probably not all that important but that's how I view the situation.
Click to expand...

I don't like "I agree" posts, but I can't resist this one. You hit the nail on the head, David.
 
gereed75 said:
because I have a very real fear in all of this -

Without EAA we (amatuer builders) will be steam rollered by the bureacrats into non-existense. We arent a big enough voting block to matter without EAA, we do not speak with a loud enough voice to matter without EAA, we don't throw around enough money to matter (with or without EAA), we don't elicit enough compassion from the caring politicos to matter without EAA, we are invisible without EAA etc etc etc.

It does not matter to me that the magazine has lost focus on me, or that Airventure is no longer Osh Kosh, or they don't show me how to make an AOA using a megnehelic (I can get that here) - it only matters that EAA continues to advocate on my behalf to protect my ability to legally practice my passion. It is the only federally recognized voice I have to speak up for me (and you).

Might sound over dramatic, but tell me how else am I going to have a voice as the regs continue their inevitable march. As long as they fill that advocating role, they deserve our support.

Don't throw out the good just because you don't like the change. Put up with your personal disatisfaction to preserve the good we all benefit from.

Rant over

PS. Want more "E", go read and contribute to "EEEEExperimenter"
Click to expand...

I agree, that is why I renew my membership in EAA and AOPA, regardless of how I feel about the organization. They are the only ones protecting my flying interests where the laws are made...
 
Truly, I did not want to leave... but their WASTE of funds, lack of attention to details sending out TC assignments and just rude conversation in phone contact cut the cord for me. These are all things that can be fixed... in conversation there was no interest in making the change.
 
cjensen said:
I...In the meantime, I am putting forth a proposal in two weeks for a new Experimenter online magazine. The feedback I have received in the last six months seems to be crying out for this type of publication, and we are moving forward with it...
Click to expand...
So here's my problem with this. I work in computers, have for the past 28 years. When I get home from work to relax and read some good avaition stuff, the last thing I really want to do read a "magazine" on my computer. Call me old school, but I still like print media. That and it is very difficult for me to pass along a web magazine to non-members. OK, I can probably give them the URL but if you are trying to spark an interest in someone with a casual exposure to avaition, it is much easier for them to open a paper magasine and peruse it than a website.

gereed75 said:
because I have a very real fear in all of this -

Without EAA we (amatuer builders) will be steam rollered by the bureacrats into non-existense. We arent a big enough voting block to matter without EAA, we do not speak with a loud enough voice to matter without EAA, we don't throw around enough money to matter (with or without EAA), we don't elicit enough compassion from the caring politicos to matter without EAA, we are invisible without EAA etc etc etc.
...
Click to expand...
EAB's have become such a large part of the GA fleet, AOPA is covering the political issues for us as well as the certified guys.

Besides that, I don't need two AOPA memberships.
 
Yep.

Jeff Skiles has a good article in the new issue of SA that I read today...you guys should too. I was unaware that he works for EAA now.

Best,
 
Louise Hose said:
And I was never selected for the U.S. Olympic team. Am I disappointed? Yes. But, I still watch the games religiously and believe in them. Personal disappointment shouldn't define our support of worthy ventures, IMHO. Let's rally around the RV folks who succeeded in getting slots to be showcased at AirVenture this year.
Click to expand...

Sounds like he was selected, it just the games were canceled. I'm sure the Olympians were very disappointed in 1980 (Moscow).
 
kinger said:
Sounds like he was selected, it just the games were canceled. I'm sure the Olympians were very disappointed in 1980 (Moscow).
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Safety people were on board with it for months, one person shows up to a meeting an nixed the whole thing. Thats the way I understand it went down.
 
N941WR said:
So here's my problem with this. I work in computers, have for the past 28 years. When I get home from work to relax and read some good avaition stuff, the last thing I really want to do read a "magazine" on my computer. Call me old school, but I still like print media. That and it is very difficult for me to pass along a web magazine to non-members. OK, I can probably give them the URL but if you are trying to spark an interest in someone with a casual exposure to avaition, it is much easier for them to open a paper magasine and peruse it than a website.
Click to expand...

I agree with your point of view here. I spend most of the day on the computer. The only place I read magazines (unless I'm traveling) is in a room with a single "seat" and paper dispenser. I have no desire or intention to read a magazine on-line, it is to hard on my eyes. If I'm on-line at home it is reading the forum, checking my e-mail, finding parts or updating my build-log.
 
I agree Gary

gereed75 said:
because I have a very real fear in all of this -
Click to expand...

Without EAA we (amatuer builders) will be steam rollered by the bureacrats into non-existense. We arent a big enough voting block to matter without EAA, we do not speak with a loud enough voice to matter without EAA, we don't throw around enough money to matter (with or without EAA), we don't elicit enough compassion from the caring politicos to matter without EAA, we are invisible without EAA etc etc etc.

...

I feel worse about Rocket Bob dropping his membership which makes our voice weaker than I do about all of the politico/business and publications part of the organization. I believe that if you give it some thought that EAA has its unique position BECAUSE of the experimental aircraft and builders not because of the antiques or warbirds or production GA aircraft. If the organization loses its experimental identification, as this thread proposes it will lose its "special" status and cease to have a unique purpose. The old saying goes be careful what you wish for but I think in this case it could be modified to say be careful what you acquiesce to.

Bob Axsom
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bob Axsom said:
I feel worse about Rocket Bob dropping his membership which makes our voice weaker than I do about all of the politico/business and publications part of the organization. I believe that if you give it some thought that EAA has its unique position BECAUSE of the experimental aircraft and builders not because of the antiques or warbirds or production GA aircraft. If the organization loses its experimental identification, as this thread proposes it will lose its "special" status and cease to have a unique purpose. The old saying goes be careful what you wish for but I think in this case it could be modified to say be careful what you acquiesce to.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

Everything so far I've seen since the change in leadership and organization focus has been nothing but lip service towards the homebuilders. Take for example, the statement the EAA made concerning the advisory circular regarding AD's as they apply to experimentals. The press release made it sound like a huge victory but anyone who knows how FSDO inspectors operate could see right thru that in a nanosecond. Without a FAR 39 change the AC was worthless. But the EAA made it sound like some sort of victory. That to me is lip service. Its not advocacy. When the 51% rule was reexammined, nothing the EAA requested was adopted by the FAA. The truth is, the FAA can do whatever the heck it wants. The EAA is an organization that feels it has to grow and in order to do that has to cater to a wider audience, and I get that, but that wider organization is not terribly appealing to me. These are just a few things in my reasoning. There are others. In the past I've been involved with warbirds in the show and I have seen some of the sorts of double standards that have been applied first-hand. I will revisit my membership in a year to see if anything has improved but for now I'm passing on renewing.
 
rocketbob said:
Everything so far I've seen since the change in leadership and organization focus has been nothing but lip service towards the homebuilders.
Click to expand...

This.

This month's issue of SA was largely spent on an endless stream of safety articles and two lengthy columns trying to sell the idea that "New EAA" is better than "Old EAA". There was very little of the content I (used to) expect in Sport Aviation.

It is amazing that such a great periodical has fallen so far in such a short period of time.
 
I dropped my membership after it expired last month. The people over at Headquarters need to pick up a copy of the latest Kitplanes magazine and compare it against the latest issue of Sport Aviation. They don't seem to have any problem finding content. Also, if experimenter is such a success then why aren't those articles finding their way into Sport Aviation. I don't particularly like reading magazines online. They can't be easily passed to friends or children to peruse and become inspired by.

Keith
 
I have both an EAA and an AOPA membership because both organizations are advocats when I can't be. You may call it lip service, but I would not even be aware of the issues if it were not for these organizations. I hope to someday have the time to lend my help, but for now I am a passenger on this train. In the cost of airplane related stuff, the cost of the memberships are not an issue.

I am one of those who work on computers all day long, but I do most of my reading on the tablet. This is how I read VAF and other online experimental content. I like it this way because it makes it very easy to pass a URL off to friends to share. I like it this way because I can quickly fact check claims and opinions. I like it this way because if I read an article on AOA, I can quickly look up how to make a home built version. But I will fully admit I did not do this when all I had was the notebook. The tablet made the difference.

Being a former magazine design and production director, I know first hand the time and money it takes to make it happen. And I am surprised there are any non-main stream magazines left. So the fact we even have a magazine is a testament to the dedication of those involved.

I fear we may lose our ability to be experimental builders. I would hate to see the day when we have to assemble an RV exactly how the plans say. I can't do anything right now to alter the trains path but I am in training for the day I have the time to do so. So if you have the time, stop complaining and do something.

Okay, a little harsh. Hope no one takes my words personally, but do take them to heart.
 
My name is Ed

and I'm a wanna be kit 'assembler'. I don't have the time, skill, or inclination to try and design my own aircraft. I'm ok with those of you who don't consider me to be an experimenter - I am not an experimenter. And I learn something from almost every issue of the EAA publication. Kit Planes is my favorite.

I really appreciate those who preceded me and made it possible for me to get a kit build airplane successfully and safely into the air. The pioneers who designed and scratch built their aircraft are awesome.

I think that those who succeeded and produced 'great' kit airplanes are pretty rare. Stitts, Whitman, Niebuhr (sp all), and Van are a few names that come to mind but I'm sure that there are more. Most of the rest of us follow along and build that persons kit. And I am very happy to be able to purchase and 'assemble' a kit that is proven to be safe and reliable.

I will be building an RV-12 - guess that is the ultimate 'assembled' kit! Haven't started yet but by reading here in VAF, I conclude that my greatest challenge might be installing the avionics and doing the necessary computer work to get them all operational and functioning correctly. A computer person, I'm not.

So thanks to those of you who are or even know a true experimental aircraft designer and builder - my hat is off to you all.:cool:
 
Not sure what this thread's focus is...maybe just to air some festering gripes. I'll add this to the mix:

My favorite fly-in was years ago before the thought entered my head that I could build or even own an airplane. I was a member of a club that fortunately had a wide variety of aircraft from J-3 and Aeronca to Cessnas to V-tail Bonanza. Anyway the fly-in was literally that: no airshow, no fire-and-explosions BS, no vendors, not even advertised except by word-of-mouth. It was on a dichondra field that the owner, a member of a local EAA club, would open once a year to aircraft for the fly-in. The club held a BBQ and baked goods and that made money for them, the only economic activity for the event. Imagine the fun of flying in to an unmarked field, landing a J-3 on a dichondra field and watching all the other aircraft. More homebuilts and taildraggers than spam-cans. Wander the edge of the strip gaping and gawking at the variety of airplanes. Then a BBQ lunch with home-made baked goods. On leaving I'd always do a few extra circuits to enjoy the grass field--many others did the same.

Those were the days, but the owner died, the son wanted nothing to do with planes landing on his commercial dichondra field and it came to an end. C'est la vie! It never could have remained the same because everything in America is "follow the money". EAA, like everbody else is following the money. I appreciate their homebuilding videos and their advocacy to the FAA so for $40-$50 a year I'll remain a member. As for the magazine, whatever, I subscribe to Kitplanes but only a couple of articles in that interest me each month.

Nothing is perfect except at least with the plane you build you can make it as perfect as you want. And with that, I'm back out to the garage to build that perfect airplane :D
 
Kmacht said:
I dropped my membership after it expired last month. The people over at Headquarters need to pick up a copy of the latest Kitplanes magazine and compare it against the latest issue of Sport Aviation. They don't seem to have any problem finding content. Also, if experimenter is such a success then why aren't those articles finding their way into Sport Aviation. I don't particularly like reading magazines online. They can't be easily passed to friends or children to peruse and become inspired by.

Keith
Click to expand...

People are always comparing the two magazines. Kitplanes magazine is in circulation at HQ every month. I have the current issue on my desk right now, as does Rod. You have to remember, Kitplanes isn't a member organization. They have one segment to cater to. It's easy.

We don't want to put Experimenter articles in SA because they are separate pubs and why duplicate?
 
cjensen said:
People are always comparing the two magazines. Kitplanes magazine is in circulation at HQ every month. I have the current issue on my desk right now, as does Rod. You have to remember, Kitplanes isn't a member organization. They have one segment to cater to. It's easy.
Click to expand...

The core of EAA is and was homebuilders and dreamers. Nobody has said SA has to be exclusively for those segments, but the magazine (and the organazation, presumably) has moved so far from its core, what is left is almost unrecognizable.
 
Just Renewed my membership

Fellow RV Lovers,

Edidtors, I'm NOT going to talk politics, just point out some cold hard bloody facts. Last week, a Federal Judge issued an order banning the use of "Pack Horses" in the Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks in the Sierra Nevada Range. Yes, banned the use of horses & mules to assist packers into the trails & mountains. This actually happened!!

My point is, if a poor ole horse & mule is not enviornmentally friendly, what do you think a 180 mph RV is going to be considered???

If you want to transfer auto gasoline from a service station to your RV (airplane or recreational vehicle, doesn't matter which); you are NO longer able to go to a hardware store and purchase a container with a spout on one end and a vent hole in the other. A container like that is no longer manufactured. It is illegal to manufacture one. If you have one, it is over a decade old. Please think about that for a few minutes.

We, aviators, are skating on thin ice, PERIOD. Lament all you want about the good old days, they are gone. I will continue to be a member of the EAA as long as they represent my right to traverse the friendly skies of these United States. I could care less about their magazine content. Just please, keep me in my RV-4 for another 20 years.

Thank you EAA for all you do to help us stay airborne,
 
dealfair said:
Fellow RV Lovers,

We, aviators, are skating on thin ice, PERIOD. Lament all you want about the good old days, they are gone. I will continue to be a member of the EAA as long as they represent my right to traverse the friendly skies of these United States. I could care less about their magazine content. Just please, keep me in my RV-4 for another 20 years.

Thank you EAA for all you do to help us stay airborne,
Click to expand...


You Nailed it. That's why I will continue to support both EAA and AOPA with my membership. I haven't been interested in most of the articles in either magazine, or any aviation mag for that matter, save Sport Aerobatics, in many years, but I surely do love to fly as much as I love to build things, including aircraft. I will do all I can to protect my right to do so, and as long as I feel those organizations are fighting to defend our freedoms to enjoy these activities, they will continue to enjoy my support.
 
I am a member of both EAA and AOPA. I never even open the magazines, unless something on the cover catches my interest.

Both organizations are supporting us as pilots and aircraft owners. They are fighting user fees of the FAA system. That alone makes it worth my combined $80 per year.

To each his own. Freedom of speech is a two way street. Ask the Dixie Chicks.
YMMV.
 
For those of you who have stated that you believe that EAA and AOPA are fighting for your interests, have you actutually verified that they are? Have you looked at the 990 filings to see if the salaries they pay are justified? Can you cite specific examples where either group has directly influenced legislation or rule changes? Have either of the groups been completely transparent in reporting their finances to their membership?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top