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LED lighting

T

T.O.Craig

Well Known Member
I'm to the point where it is time to order lighting for my wings. HID from Duck Works for the leading edge. I have already bought Vans Landing lights in the tips which I will also keep and maybe oscillate. There will also be strobes at the tip. The real question is, has anyone used LEDs for position lights and how effective are they. Any input would be appreciated. Good to be back in the forum
 
There are several recent threads on LED lighting for RVs, including links to the various manufacturers. Do a search on "LED" and see what pops up.
 
led lighting

I am using LED for my nav lights. SInce the lights are fairly narrow beam it is important that you orient them in multiple directions. Last night I was following another RV into oiur airport at dusk and he saw me land. His comment was that my nav lights worked wonderfully and he had no problem seeing me.
 
Roll your own!!

Here is a link to some lights that look an awful lot like what Bernie has in his wingtips. ;) No complaints on not being able to be seen.

Cost is not bad for some luxeon LEDs and a big resistor. I have 380 hours on mine and I run them pretty much night and day.

Nav%20Lights%20and%20Kids%20062.jpg


Nav%20Lights%20and%20Kids%20060.jpg


More pics here.......
 
LED Stuff

Hello - I've been gettting quite a few PMs asking about the materials used to make the LED nav lights. Here is the scoop:

Here are the resistors you need: link

here are the Green LEDS: (use cyan, not green) link

here are the Red LEDs: link

The luxeons should be mounted to an AL sheet with heat conducting, but electrically insulating compound: link

Mirrored Plexi can be found here: link

Here is the schematic:

LED%20Nav%20Light%20Schematics.jpg



More construction pics here

Questions:

Do they meet the FARs? - No idea - but they are crazy bright

Do they get too hot? - Mine have not - I run them whenever I fly - no issues in almost 400 hrs - the resistor tends to underdrive the LEDs. The resistor gets warm, but not hot.

Total cost? - LED prices seem to vary a bunch - I have about $60-$70 in both sides of mine.

My standard 1 beer fee applies - payable in the upper midwest (during the summer)........
 
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Forward Voltage Total

Question: How does the cyan led with 3.9 forward voltage work when you only have a 12 V (14.4 V) supply? The total for 4 leds adds up to 15.6 volts. I don't doubt they light up as you have demonstrated, but why/how? I understand very little about electronics (perhaps only enough to get me into trouble) and can use the help in understanding. I want to use leds in my wingtips also. :) Thanks! Cliff
 
Hey Cliff!

striplic said:
Question: How does the cyan led with 3.9 forward voltage work when you only have a 12 V (14.4 V) supply? The total for 4 leds adds up to 15.6 volts. I don't doubt they light up as you have demonstrated, but why/how? I understand very little about electronics (perhaps only enough to get me into trouble) and can use the help in understanding. I want to use leds in my wingtips also. :) Thanks! Cliff
Click to expand...

This has been questioned before - and rightly so. I'm not sure what to say except that it works and it really works well. The LEDs are current driven vs voltage driven - that might have something to do with it.

Maybe one of our EE's on the boards can answer this.
 
Ship's Power

Hi Steve,

The circuit above is hooked directly to ship's power (14.4V) with a switch. The resistor acts as a crude current limiter. It is cheap, simple, passive, and it works (at the expense of effciency). The PWM power supplies are more effcient, but until recently, they had some issues with RF noise and are more expensive.

Not sure if that answered your question - let me know if I missed.
 
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More Pics

I've had a few requests for more pics, so here are some images Peter F captured today in his basement as we worked up what we are calling the Photon Bazooka(tm) for his -7.

This puppy will have two(waggable) 50 watt HID per tip and 4 Luxeon III stars for position. Several LED strobe candidates are currently being auditioned.

Here is the back of the LEDs with wiring

LED_Tip_Lights_-_Back.jpg


Peter metered on the LED die to keep the lights from blowing out the pic here. These are being driven at less than 200ma - 1/4 of full current. See the nice edge glow.....

LED_Tip_Lights_-_Side_Glow.jpg


Glamour pic of yours truly holding the power wires....hide this from your wives.:D You get a sense of how obnoxiously bright these things are even running at a fraction of capacity.

LED_Tip_Lights_-_Designer.jpg


Fun little project!
 
Hey, Pete...just ordered all the goodies to start making up these nav lights...yours looks like one of the best solutions I've seen, so we're gonna give it a whirl. One question...probably a dumb one...did you stand the plexi off from the fiberglas, and if so, how far/what'd you use? Or was it a function of the landing light fixture?
 
Giddy Up!

Hi Steve,

The aluminium backing plate rides on the fiberglass and the plexi rides on little spacers and the luxeon stars. The holes in the plexi locate the stars on the aluminium backing plate.

Post some pics when you are done!
 
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petehowell said:
Hi Steve,

The aluminium backing plate rides on the plexi and the plexi rides on little spacer and the luxeon stars. The holes in the plexi locate the stars on the aluminium backing plate.

Post some pics when you are done!
Click to expand...

I think I understand...did you mean the aluminum plate rides on the *fiberglass*, and then the plexi rides on the aluminum w/ spacers and the luxeons between them?

Seems straightforward...will post some pics when I get it done (which might be quite a while...the Luxeon site says there's several weeks backorder on one or the other of the colors of stars :( ).
 
With regards to strobes...Aveo has the nice tail position/strobe LED light, that looks good. But for wingtip strobes, I'm just wondering...has anybody tried using an automotive solution? Just for example, what about something like this:

http://www.hyper-lights.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_65&products_id=462

I don't know what the specs are for strobe lights per the FARs, but it seems to me there should be some solutions extant in the emergency vehicle supplier realm that would work for us...
 
Flying Scotsman said:
With regards to strobes...Aveo has the nice tail position/strobe LED light, that looks good. But for wingtip strobes, I'm just wondering...has anybody tried using an automotive solution? Just for example, what about something like this:

http://www.hyper-lights.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_65&products_id=462

I don't know what the specs are for strobe lights per the FARs, but it seems to me there should be some solutions extant in the emergency vehicle supplier realm that would work for us...
Click to expand...


This is the Nova product being resold. These are very noisy from a RF perspective. CreativAir attempted to sell them, but just took them off the market.
 
Aveo Nav Light

Take a look at the Aveo Nav lights at www.aveoaviationlights.com. I'm been corresponding with the owner of Aveo, Christian Nielsen, and he's in the process of designing a package for the RV wingtip lighting which includes a good quality replacement lens. Apperarantly the low cost lens that Van's ship with the wingtips will block a lot of the LED light output. I saw their product at Oshkosh and was impressed. I'm considering the complete nav light package with stobes and tail light strobe combo. You can currently find their products in Aircraft Spruce but you may want to wait so see what he comes up with specifically for the RV's.

I understand that Aveo also has very high output LED landing lights but I also have already installed Duckworks HID lights in the wings.
 
I looked at their website, and I really like the tail light/strobe, but I didn't see any landing lights listed there.

I'm planning on, if at all possible, going with a full LED lighting system...
 
Aveo LED Landing Lights

I was told by Aveo that they have LED landing lights now so you should send them an e-mail to get more info.
 
The LuxeonStars LEDs arrived, and we tested them with the the resistor and a 13.something V power supply. Mother of God are those little dudes bright! WOW!

These should make terrific nav lights...thanks for the tip!
 
Giddy up!

Flying Scotsman said:
The LuxeonStars LEDs arrived, and we tested them with the the resistor and a 13.something V power supply. Mother of God are those little dudes bright! WOW!

These should make terrific nav lights...thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...

I get that a lot when people first see them. It really is amazing.

Photon%20Bazooka_028.JPG
 
Hey Pete....instead of the mirrored plexi could you just polish the aluminum mounting plates?

Glenn Wilkinson
 
You Could.....

But it might cause some issues with isolating the tops of the lux stars. The AL plate is on the bottom and serves as a heat sink, the plexi on top is cover and holds stuff in place. You could use AL on top, but you would need to insulate the connections on the stars from the top AL plate.

The mirrored plexi is cheap and easy to use, but what the heck, experiment - let us know what you find!
 
Originally I didn't fully understand the need for the mirrored plexi but now have seen the LED!

Thanks Buddy

Glenn
 
petehowell said:
This has been questioned before - and rightly so. I'm not sure what to say except that it works and it really works well. The LEDs are current driven vs voltage driven - that might have something to do with it.

Maybe one of our EE's on the boards can answer this.
Click to expand...
Not an EE...but the tech data sheet helps to explain. Scroll to p. 11 and 12, there are charts which show Forward Voltage vs. Forward Current, and then Forward Current vs. Normalized Luminous Flux. So you can see how much they would be dimmed by less than normal current caused by less than full voltage.
 
petehowell said:
Hello - I've been gettting quite a few PMs asking about the materials used to make the LED nav lights. Here is the scoop:

Here are the resistors you need: link

here are the Green LEDS: (use cyan, not green) link

here are the Red LEDs: link

The luxeons should be mounted to an AL sheet with heat conducting, but electrically insulating compound: link

Mirrored Plexi can be found here: link

Here is the schematic:

LED%20Nav%20Light%20Schematics.jpg



More construction pics here

Questions:

Do they meet the FARs? - No idea - but they are crazy bright

Do they get too hot? - Mine have not - I run them whenever I fly - no issues in almost 400 hrs - the resistor tends to underdrive the LEDs. The resistor gets warm, but not hot.

Total cost? - LED prices seem to vary a bunch - I have about $60-$70 in both sides of mine.

My standard 1 beer fee applies - payable in the upper midwest (during the summer)........
Click to expand...
Pete,
I have ordered the parts to roll my own LED lights from your list on this post. I should receive these parts soon and will be starting on them when they arrive. I am interested in LED strobes also. Do you have any ideas on being able to make our own LED strobes? I would like to be able to avoid dealing with shielded cable and radio interference issues with traditional strobe power supplies. Any information you may have is appreciated.

Steve
 
No Strobe Info

Sorry Steve,

I don't have any info on LED strobes. I run regular strobes and do not have any noise from them. I might just be lucky.
 
RVbySDI said:
Pete,
I am interested in LED strobes also. Do you have any ideas on being able to make our own LED strobes?
Steve
Click to expand...


Steve,

I have the same interest. I've been looking at the BuckPuck drivers. (Datasheet here) and available from AeroElectric (here). If you look towards the bottom of the data sheet, there is an interface to facilitate strobing the LEDs. All that is is needed is a circuit to generate 5v to initiate turning the LEDs on in a standard strobe flash pattern.

Perhaps there is an EE on VAF that may want contribute with a simple circuit to handle this function? This circuit in conjunction with Bob Nuckolls mods to minimize RF may be a solution. You would have to use the model of the BuckPuck that allows external control, which isn't the version that Bob supplies.

bob
 
FrankK90989 said:
I used a Power Puck, 4 Luxeon stars per side. From Led Supply.
No caps, No noise, No problems, Just lucky?
Click to expand...
Do you have any pics of this setup? Are you saying the "Power Puck" came from Led Supply or did everything come from there?
 
Bumping post!

FrankK90989 said:
I used a Power Puck, 4 Luxeon stars per side. From Led Supply.
No caps, No noise, No problems, Just lucky?
Click to expand...
I am bumping this post up again hoping you or others may see it and reply.

Frank - Can you tell me the model number and voltage used for the Buck Puck you used for your setup? I am looking at the 3023-D-N-1000 in each wing tip. Are these similar to what you used? Did you just feed a 12V power to the puck or were there any other wiring/circuit requirements? I have several questions about the wiring of these. If you or anyone else may be able to discuss this please post here or PM me.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Sorry Steve,
Must be sleeping at the switch??
Every thing was ordered 11/19/07 from LED supply, Might be a little dated?
Power puck is 700 MA LED drive module, code is 02008B-700. And the stars are K2 star low current 4 red, 4 cyan, I used green but current wisdom is that cyan is the better color.
They are wired in series, grounded locally. The Power puck is mounted to the last tip rib.
ymmv.
 
FrankK90989 said:
Sorry Steve,
Must be sleeping at the switch??
Every thing was ordered 11/19/07 from LED supply, Might be a little dated?
Power puck is 700 MA LED drive module, code is 02008B-700. And the stars are K2 star low current 4 red, 4 cyan, I used green but current wisdom is that cyan is the better color.
They are wired in series, grounded locally. The Power puck is mounted to the last tip rib.
ymmv.
Click to expand...
Frank,
Thanks for the info. I am a little confused though.

I have read Pete Howell's post on building the nav lights and had plans to do so according to his parts list. I have ordered everything Pete had listed on his post above and am working on the installation of those lights now. His list did not call for any Power Puck for that setup.

Your list of items sounds very familiar to Pete's list of items except for the Power Puck. Is your setup for Nav lights or for Strobes?

If I set my nav lights up as Pete suggests I was hopeful to setup a separate system for LED strobes in the same location in the wingtips using white LED's. From what I can read on the description of the Power Puck it is supposed to be able to strobe the LED's but I am not sure if all I have to do is wire 12V power to the puck and it has a switch or something to turn on the strobe functionality or if there is some type of circuit design needed before the power feeds into the puck.

Any chance of seeing a pic of your setup?
 
RVbySDI said:
Frank,
From what I can read on the description of the Power Puck it is supposed to be able to strobe the LED's but I am not sure if all I have to do is wire 12V power to the puck and it has a switch or something to turn on the strobe functionality or if there is some type of circuit design needed before the power feeds into the puck.
Click to expand...


Steve,

There is a version of the PowerPuck that allows external control. However, the strobe capability is not a part of the PowerPuck. You have to add a 5v triggering circuit for the strobe timing.

While there has been [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']success [/FONT]with those not using the PowerPuck, I believe the PowerPuck is a more elegant solution. Is it better, probably. How much better, you'll have to make that determination.

Also, Bob Nuckolls has designed some additional filters to guarantee that there is minimal RF interference. You read more on his web site.

bob
 
Thanks Bob,
Will read Bob Nuckell's information. If the circuit is simple my mind can probably handle it. If not, then I might end up frying my brain trying to figure it out. :p We will see.
 
Steve- Pete's method makes do with a 25 cent resistor instead of the 18$ power puck. I think you need one on each wing, so that is about a $35 difference, and the power pucks have got to be an ounce or two heavier.
 
Thanks Danny,
That does answer several questions.

Now, I guess I am needing the most important question answered. Bob has mentioned that in order to strobe the LED's I need a circuit in front of everything to make it strobe. What is needed for such a circuit? I am in no way an electronics guy but I am taking this EDUCATION AND RECREATION thing to heart and am wanting to learn how I can build this circuit to allow for LED strobes.

If anyone has information on this type of circuit I am very interested in learning how to build it.

p.s. I have ordered Bob Nuckoll's book so I am hopeful I will learn a lot when I read it. In the meantime I am in the middle of building my wingtip lights now so I would appreciate any information anyone currently has on the construction of this strobe circuit.

Thanks,
Steve
 
RVbySDI said:
Thanks Danny,
That does answer several questions.

Now, I guess I am needing the most important question answered. Bob has mentioned that in order to strobe the LED's I need a circuit in front of everything to make it strobe. What is needed for such a circuit? I am in no way an electronics guy but I am taking this EDUCATION AND RECREATION thing to heart and am wanting to learn how I can build this circuit to allow for LED strobes.

If anyone has information on this type of circuit I am very interested in learning how to build it.

p.s. I have ordered Bob Nuckoll's book so I am hopeful I will learn a lot when I read it. In the meantime I am in the middle of building my wingtip lights now so I would appreciate any information anyone currently has on the construction of this strobe circuit.

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...


also, that $18 power puck is for a generic one mentioned earlier. pros- its cheaper than the aero'lectric model. cons, could be rf noisy.

the aerolectric pucks are $46 each, so that is at least a $90 difference from teh basic resistor method. (oops, needed two pucks for the increased price)

this only applies to basic nav lights though, for a strobe you might need the pucks to make it operate at all. I don't know, i'm in the process of making nav lights. once i get those up and running i'll buy up some stuff to try strobes.
 
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Danny,
I will be interested to follow your progress. I am at the same point. I have the resistor, LED's, reflective plastic, adhesive that Pete mentioned for the nav lights. I am going to follow Pete's lead and build as he did for the nav lights.

I guess I will be learning about some of the needs for a strobe circuit and see what I can build on those next. I have ordered 10 Luxeon star LED's that I plan to use for strobe lights and the white tail position light. From what I have been reading so far I think I am going to order two of these BuckPuck Drivers and see what I can come up with.

I will try to keep you updated on my progress as I move along on this new learning experience.
 
RVbySDI said:
xavier,
Thanks for the links. I agree the last link does look interesting. Now if I can source the necessary components. Then I will have to figure out how good my soldering skills are.
Click to expand...

Perhaps Mouser.com. I wouldn't mind giving it a try myself. I'll add it to my "to do" list.
 
spots

Pete, you should warn those that build these led light systems to put on sunglasses when they first fire 'em up! I'm still seeing spots......:p

Man these things are bright!

Mark
RV9A #91317
180hp Catto 3 blade

oh yeah........ I owe you a beer this summer... Summit EPA OK?
 
The links are not quite enough current

Hi Steve, I just wanted to warn you that the links show flashers for very small LED's. The current in any of those circuits is probably less than 20 ma. If you are looking at driving your other LED's you will be talking an amp or so. Just wanted to warn you before you let the "magic smoke" out of the components. All electronics runs on smoke, let the smoke out and it doesn't work any more! Yep I'm an Electronic Engineer during the day.

Paul
N694BP reserved
RV-6A VSB (very slow build)
 
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