Where was everyone ... Oshkosh?

Where was everyone this year? This was the lowest turn out i've seen in many years ... was it gas prices? weather? ???.

Probably some of both. We have had (in Minneapolis, a half day's weather west) temps in the high 90's, and dewpoints in the low to mid 70's for quite a few days now. Defnitely grim camping weather. I chose to not go because of the heat.

After the big rain on Tuesday you could see the looks on campers faces as they came out of their tents. They were pretty tired of the rain. A lot folks took the opportunity to leave early. Ironically, After the Wednesday afternoon storm, things sort of settled in for a few days but it looks like OSH got hit pretty good this morning.

Friday was the thinnest crowd I've ever seen at OSH and there was a huge gap in the RV parking area. Looks like lots of folks left on Thursday and Aeoshell square was pretty quite except there were a lot of people around tghe C-17, mostly to stand in its shadow.

I noticed the prices for food went way up this year after a couple of years of staying fairly reasonable.

Too bad so many people have discovered that gem of a booth run by the church folks up by the bus tower. The biggest line I saw all week was the one there for lunch on Friday. Those folks are great.

You had to really work and apply some strategy toward staying cool. The Best Buy Trailer, and the museum provided good air conditioned res pites. Free water at the AOPA booth helped too.

Fuel on the field, I think, was $3.79.

In Camp Scholler, you could still get a spot in the "trees" (near where you drive in) on Friday afternoon. I've never seen that before. I saw fewer big RVs there this year (the kind with 4 wheels).

Well You Know...

Spot 2 in row 342. Sunday and Monday flew home Tuesday. During the time I was there it did seem like the car parking was easier to find in the red lot, etc. but there seemed to be plenty of people there. I did hear Flight service telling an inbound pilot that there was a notam on Tuesday that there was no more aircraft parking available at Oshkosh.

If you are starting to get a little long of tooth, walking for miles to see aerobatic demonstrations is not stimulating. I feel the same way at Reno where the racing is heart pounding excitement but everything else is just somebody else flying. Exceptions were Jimmy Franklin and Art Sholl.

There is significant effort to present antiques, WWII airplanes and current inventory airplanes but there is a gaping void of representation of the period where the most dynamic aircraft development was taking place, 1945 through 1960. Elsewhere a fellow reported a B-29 flying at Oshkosh - I doubt that, there is only one possible and the information I have is it is still down for repair. Before the Airventure Cup Race we had a dinner at Wright Patterson AFB and we were allowed to spend several hours wandering through the Air Force Museum. It was interesting to see a B-36, B-45, B-47, B-52, B-58, F-94, and some of the aircraft I worked on F-101, F-4, F15 and even a GAM-72. Earlier in the year I toured the Naval Aviation Museum (beautiful facility and presentation) and saw the F7U, F8U, F2H, F3H, F-4, A4D, Douglas Skystreak, Douglas Skyrocket and many more.

Aviation development is not the exciting thing it once was and I suspect that Oshkosh has likewise peaked and some decline is normal.

Bob Axsom

We were there from Friday (22) till Saturday (29). Took the plane home on Friday. It was there from Friday (21) to Friday (28). The Van's Banquet was very nice at the nature center. Sorry I missed Bob's shindig, but we had a prearranged gig we had to attend. Maybe next year. Saw lots of you fine people while there. Nice to put faces with all the names on this site.

Fuel was 3.89 from Orion and 3.69 from Basler. Auto fuel was certainly high enough. We really enjoyed our new 40 mpg Honda Civic. Food was lousy to mediocre and expensive at the usual venders. Rootbeer floats were good. We ate lunch at the registration shack where we keep a fine selection of meats and breads and fixings. We did get to Kodiak Jacks and several private parties on the field for a shrimp boil and some blackened mahi-mahi.

Attendance was clearly down. Seems the earlier part of the week was busier and more crowded than Friday and Saturday. The Beach Boy's were Great!!!

Next Year!!

Roberta

robertahegy said:

Auto fuel was certainly high enough....

(snip)a

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I crossed from Minnesota ($2.85 a gallon) into Wisconsin ($3.09) and couldn't believe the hit. I'm guessing Wisconsin has a sliding gas tax while Minnesota's hasn't gone up since the Model T.

Intresting note, though. Minnesota mandates 20% ethanol and I got 26 mpg ont he way in with my wife's Subaru. On the way home, I had to stack coolers on the roof...not exactly smooth airflow, and after filling up at an Oshkosh service station, got 29 mpg on the way home. I'm guessing there's less ethanol in Wisconsin gas, psosibly?

Anyway, like Roberta, I thought the Nature Center location was very nice. Trees, green...you know...nature....was a nice respite in the heat. I liked the old Pioneer too becuase it was on the water and after a week of those Porta Johns, a night of plumbing and some air conditioning was its own reward. I wonder what they're building on the Pioneer site?

Wouldn't mind seeing some tables and chairs (like what the EAA uses for its dinner). Sitting at a picnic table for two hours can really take a toll on the old man's back.

The food was delicious. I asked the caterer for a card because I'd like of like to find out what it would cost per head for something like that. She didn't have one so she gave me a napkin, which I promptly used and tossed so I have no idea who the caterer was.

Darwin and I spent some time trying to calculate how many campsites could fit under that tent.

I think we run up to 10% ethanol, but many gas stations in less populated areas have no ethanol. E85 is also available in some areas. I think fuel away from MKE and SEWI is mainly real gas.

Roberta

n468ac said:

Where was everyone this year? This was the lowest turn out i've seen in many years ... was it gas prices? weather? ???.

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Saturday's weather wasn't too bad, the threatening weather blowing out of the north in the morning and its associated cooler breezes served to generate a welcomed respite from the oppressive temperatures of Friday. I do think gas prices and generally uncooperative weather over convention week certainly contributed to a lower turnout, but I have to believe the problems of AirVenture go deeper than that....much deeper. Several vendors in the Flymart area and those set up in the pricier exhibition buildings complained about the quality of this years experience. It is simply getting to be too expensive an experience across the board. Personally, it was disconcerting to pay $6 daily parking fees in the outer reaches of the Blue Lot, despite showing up early, then walk by the totally, and I mean TOTALLY empty handicapped parking area closer to entrance gate. Finding liquid refreshments at random locations as in the past was probematic this year aggravated no doubt by a new centrally located "food court" and outrageous pricing on food and beverages on par with professional sports arenas. You then have to suffer the indignity of dodging an ever-growing number of motorized vehicles that displace you from the walkways and incessantly criss-cross the grounds on one errand or another. Personal beefs aside, who can deny Warbird participation is dramatically lower than in the past? There were years when you would see DOZENS of P-51's participate in the airshow. Speaking of warbirds, what's up with the museum? Large segments of the floor was denuded of its historic military planes including Bong's P-38, the huge and impressive model of the U.S.S. Enterprise, and the valuable floor space instead given over to hundreds of folding chairs and a speakers platform. C'mon.

In the end, the most impressive thing about this year's experience to me being hindered by irritating though marginal headwinds coming and going, yet still managing to fly Darla from St. Louis to Green Bay and back in 2 hours 30 minutes each way. Now those are numbers I can live with.

Did anyone eat at "Big Ed's" in Goodland, KS or "Kodiak Jack's" in Oshkosh?

Laird's idea of a 5 star restaurant

the smallest ribeye--16oz.

my pitcher's empty!!! and I need another...

Bong's P-38, I believe, was parked over at KidVenture. BTW, I heard great things about KidVenture this year (my kids are grown so I don't get to experience it firsthand), and Van's deserves a shout out for providing the control surface practice kit for the kids to make.

Someone at the BBQ said they had a shortage of volunteers and I know on Thursday Glenn Brasch went over and volunteered and he said he had a great time. I stopped by Friday but they were pretty well off in the volunteer department by then.

I thought I detected some smaller booths this year too in some of the hangars.

On my final swing Friday, I couldn't find the AeroShell booth and I thought, "oh dear, if the cow posters aren't here any more,there's hardly a reason to come to Osh." Fortunately, my panic was alleviated when I found Amoolia. (g)

I thought he EAA member temp in Aeroshell Square was well done. Even the Internet Cafe moved smoothly. On the other side of the coin, the Internet Cafe in Camp Scholler was disappointing. It was only open for an hour or so in the morning, and 4-7 in the afternoon, however on one day I was there it closed early and on anotther it closed at 5. Not sure why.

One thing that would be REALLY great is if EAA or somebody provided some WiFi. Free would be preferable but even a small-charge hotspot would be cool.

A bit of bad news

A bit of bad news. As I was taxiing out to 18R today (Sunday at Oshkosh) when the RV behind me was literally run over on the taxiway by one of the big war birds. His prop shredded the RV like it was nothing from what I could see the big war bird prop made it all the way to the luggage compartment as the luggage was strewn all over the place the RV pilot appeared to try and get out of the aircraft but I do not know if he was hurt. Anyone know anything else I would appreciate it as I do not know what happened after we left. We were pushed onto the runway for takeoff so the fire and rescue could get to him. I hope he / she the RV pilot made it out ok but it did not look good? I kind of shook me up. It could have been anyone including me.

Some OSH notes

Best food deal: Breakfast buffet at the Hilton - $10 incl tax & tip
Skip the Charcoal Pit II next time.
Roxy's is still the best for dinner if you can make it downtown.

I met Van, Roberta Hegy, Mike Schipper and Jim White. I saw Harrison Ford (at the Hilton, natch), Chuck Yeager, Burt Rutan, Lane Wallace, Budd Davisson, Rod Machado, the Beach Boys and Kent White (the tin man).

Superior will probably be my engine supplier. Although I'm still crunching numbers.

The EAA needs at least one more shower building in the North 40 (aka the Mooney/Bonanza lot). The perimeter school buses were always overloaded. Attendance may have have been down in other areas but ceratinly not in the North 40.

Bob Collins did a fine job with the RV BBQ. An informal poll of those nearby me on the registration line revealed 50% had no previous notice of the event. On a similar note, there are RV'ers who have no idea of this web site!

There were many, many excellent RV's on display. That green one with the poker hand on the wings was a knock-out. Some of those paint jobs must've approached $10K. I saw a few RV-airs, too. Nary a rivet in sight. How do they do that?

Back to work,
Steve

Steve said:

Bob Collins did a fine job with the RV BBQ. An informal poll of those nearby me on the registration line revealed 50% had no previous notice of the event. On a similar note, there are RV'ers who have no idea of this web site!

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Curious, how'd they hear about it. And that was something I learned too, the number of RV builders who aren't online and also I figured there must be about 75 folks lurking for every person who posts.

Rick6a said:

<<SNIP>>
Speaking of warbirds, what's up with the museum? Large segments of the floor was denuded of its historic military planes including Bong's P-38, the huge and impressive model of the U.S.S. Enterprise, and the valuable floor space instead given over to hundreds of folding chairs and a speakers platform. C'mon.

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I **think** the matter was ...

There were two "premier" showings of the movie "One Six Right" held there. Hi-Def Video projection, Bose Sound and a nice story about an airport, its people and the planes they love to fly.


James

And the night before that it was the "Gathering of Eagles" event at the museum. And this year they had two museum speakers going at once; one in the little theater upstairs and one on the floor of Eagle Hangar, where I saw Tex Hill (I wrote about his presentation in that Oshkosh wrap-up for the RV newsletter this week).

[email protected] said:

A bit of bad news. As I was taxiing out to 18R today (Sunday at Oshkosh) when the RV behind me was literally run over on the taxiway by one of the big war birds. His prop shredded the RV like it was nothing from what I could see the big war bird prop made it all the way to the luggage compartment as the luggage was strewn all over the place the RV pilot appeared to try and get out of the aircraft but I do not know if he was hurt. Anyone know anything else I would appreciate it as I do not know what happened after we left. We were pushed onto the runway for takeoff so the fire and rescue could get to him. I hope he / she the RV pilot made it out ok but it did not look good? I kind of shook me up. It could have been anyone including me.

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The pilot of the RV-6 was Bill Reid, and he escaped without injury. Unfortunately, the president of our local EAA chapter, Gary Palmer, was killed in the accident. Gary and Bill were camped just a few airplanes down from us in row 302, and we talked quite a bit during the show. In fact, Gary and Bill didn't know about the RV BBQ until we told them, and they both enjoyed themselves at it.

This is a sad day around here, I must say. Gary was a great guy, a real aviation enthusiast. Recently, someone asked if the IVO prop was OK for Lycomings, and I replied that someone I knew had one on a Lancair that threw a blade and crash landed in a soybean field. The airplane was written off but the pilot walked away. That someone was Gary.

Bob Collins said:

Curious, how'd they hear about it. And that was something I learned too, the number of RV builders who aren't online and also I figured there must be about 75 folks lurking for every person who posts.

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Hi Bob, thanks for sponsoring the BBQ, found out about it on another forum where some guys were talking about a BBQ. (what BBQ?)

I was at the show from Sunday through Friday and spent about $600, including the cost of fuel to fly from Missouri. Accomodations were at the home built camp area. Thoroughly enjoyed the event. My tent stayed dry through 3 nights of thunderstorms but not Wednesday afternoon when I was trapped at Van's display during the down pour. I left a tent window open for ventilation and everything got soaked. That was dumb as nothing dried out until noon the next day. What a miserable night Wednesday was. Felt like a Marine in training.

Favorite forums were Sam James, Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover. The Beach Boys concert was fun. Favortite RV was a RV-4 with no paint and very shiny aluminum. Looked like an American Airlines airplane. Favorite other airplane was the yellow composit parked at the home builders registration office on the flight line. (the former champion with no external fasteners)

OSH was warm, but not as hot as Missouri. The 90's were pleasant compared to the 100+ around here right now.

dd

n468ac said:

Where was everyone this year?

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While attendance was probably down slighly from last year (a very good year BTW) the number of homebuilts, and RVs in particular was way up. We had 190 in the homebuilt camping area on Monday night, which was the highest we've ever had in the three years we've been doing HBC. Each morning we do a count of all the planes in homebuilt parking/ camping. I don't have the numbers for each day handy, but I do recall that Monday and Tuesday in particular were up around 10% over last year. Area 51, the RV parking area, was more full than it has ever been, and at peak we were about 30-40 RVs away from having to divert them down to the south end of the airport.

The trend for these things is that people who fly in show up early and leave early. Sunday (the day prior) was absolutely insanely busy for 14 hours straight with arrivals. We were at 90-95% by Sunday night. By Wednesday people started trickling out, and by Friday afternoon homebuilt parking was half empty. This year was the second year of the new Monday through Sunday format, and I think it took people a year to adjust. Last year the departures didn't really start until Thursday, and the big exodus was on Friday and Saturday.

sprucemoose said:

While attendance was probably down slighly from last year (a very good year BTW) the number of homebuilts, and RVs in particular was way up. We had 190 in the homebuilt camping area on Monday night, which was the highest we've ever had in the three years we've been doing HBC. Each morning we do a count of all the planes in homebuilt parking/ camping. I don't have the numbers for each day handy, but I do recall that Monday and Tuesday in particular were up around 10% over last year. Area 51, the RV parking area, was more full than it has ever been, and at peak we were about 30-40 RVs away from having to divert them down to the south end of the airport.

The trend for these things is that people who fly in show up early and leave early. Sunday (the day prior) was absolutely insanely busy for 14 hours straight with arrivals. We were at 90-95% by Sunday night. By Wednesday people started trickling out, and by Friday afternoon homebuilt parking was half empty. This year was the second year of the new Monday through Sunday format, and I think it took people a year to adjust. Last year the departures didn't really start until Thursday, and the big exodus was on Friday and Saturday.

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Thanks ... because of business I couldn't make it until Friday and left Sunday afternoon. Just seamed empty from previous years ... most of the time I do Monday til Wednesday.

Yes Allen, your insight into attendance most likely is from your arrival/departure date. I arrived Weds morning, after listening to the Oshkosh radio via the internet on Sunday, to find the place absolutely packed. I don't think I could have found many empty spaces in the RV area and homebuilt camping. I parked my camper RV at the corner or S**** (apparently the bad word check does not like the name of the fabric and Elm, with camping all the way out to the fences coming in. Not many spaces left, find one and grab it was the norm. We left out on Saturday. Prior to leaving, a storm was predicted to come through as I was walking through RV parking. It looked like fleas leaving a dog after a flea bath Yes, by lunchtime Saturday the place was starting to empty out based on the Sunday weather prediction.

Said it before and I'll say it again, great people, great places and a great plane. What more could you ask for.

You know, there's another group of folks out there -- it just occurred to me -- that don't get anywhere near enough applause: the people of Oshkosh. Think about it, a gazillion people come inonce a week, clog the roads and all that -- and spend a lot of money etc. You know, in 6 or 7 years of going to this thing, I can't remember a single time when the locals were anything but friendly as all getout.

I also notice that restaurants are reasonably priced (as opposed to the food inside the AirVenture), and everyone was very friendly to us.

Way to go people of Oshkosh!

Speaking of Oshkosh People.....

Bob Collins said:

You know, there's another group of folks out there -- it just occurred to me -- that don't get anywhere near enough applause: the people of Oshkosh. Think about it, a gazillion people come inonce a week, clog the roads and all that -- and spend a lot of money etc. You know, in 6 or 7 years of going to this thing, I can't remember a single time when the locals were anything but friendly as all getout.

I also notice that restaurants are reasonably priced (as opposed to the food inside the AirVenture), and everyone was very friendly to us.

Way to go people of Oshkosh!

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I was at OSH Monday through Wed. staying with friends.....the locals I stayed with and the ones I meet going out to dinner with them all love the show....they said that they love seeing the planes and the people who fly in on them. They gave me pointers on where to go and what to do outside of the show (of course I didn't do any of that...maybe next trip).

Since this was my first trip to Airventure I wasn't sure what to expect but I didn't think the crowds were bad any of the days I was there. Just wish I would have stayed for the BBQ....next year. I meet the Falcon Flight guys.....what a great bunch of people. I have never even sat in a RV much less an 8 (which I want to build) so Len Leggette said lets go, sit in mine...I can't say enough about all those guys (and their wives)....they were great on the ground and in the air.....

I'll see ya all at OSH next year...hopefully I'll be flying in instead of the 2 hour car ride, but we'll see.

rv8bldr said:

The pilot of the RV-6 was Bill Reid, and he escaped without injury. Unfortunately, the president of our local EAA chapter, Gary Palmer, was killed in the accident. Gary and Bill were camped just a few airplanes down from us in row 302, and we talked quite a bit during the show. In fact, Gary and Bill didn't know about the RV BBQ until we told them, and they both enjoyed themselves at it.

This is a sad day around here, I must say. Gary was a great guy, a real aviation enthusiast. Recently, someone asked if the IVO prop was OK for Lycomings, and I replied that someone I knew had one on a Lancair that threw a blade and crash landed in a soybean field. The airplane was written off but the pilot walked away. That someone was Gary.

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Terrible news. I didn't know about this until just now. We were pretty much right in front of them (row 303) in our 9A. Very sad accident. Anyone know what the error was?

Mark, glad to hear you and Linda made it home safely.

- Brian, Kelly & Lily

OneTwoSierra said:

Terrible news. I didn't know about this until just now. We were pretty much right in front of them (row 303) in our 9A. Very sad accident. Anyone know what the error was?

Mark, glad to hear you and Linda made it home safely.

- Brian, Kelly & Lily

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Thanks, Brian. John, Nancy, Linda and I are all still a little shaken. It sure clouded what was an awesome week, what with bringing our -8's to Osh for the first time.

By the way, you can tell Lily that we talk about her all the time ;-) What an awesome little girl.

See you next year !

Speaking for myself I came in early Sunday and left early Tuesday. Weather stopped me from going Saturday and also was the reason that I didn't stay around until late Tuesday. It was the first time in a while I was there early in the week and the RV parking and camping area behind it was the fullest I have ever seen. All in all I had a super easy arrival and departure. Our own Mr. Point even escorted me both ways to/from the runway.

Scott
#90598 - N598SD Flying - 71 hours

Camping

Hey Scott, sorry we couldn't hook back up before you left. Man, there were a lot of people camping early in the week. It slowly dwindled and by Saturday it was pretty empty.

As for Brian's daughter, yes, she was the talk of the Homebuilt Camping area for sure. She probably knows everyone's N-number too!

Can't wait until next year.

Mike Schipper
RV-9A - N63MS
www.my9a.com

Was it just me or did anyone else notice the new food service vendor was the WORST! The pre-made brats were worst than last year and they did not even have lids (or straws) for the sodas. I used to live on brats and Gatorade during the OSH day heat and they did not have Gatorade this year.