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3 blade CATTO

Stewbronco

Well Known Member
Hi all .... looking for some real world experience. Obviously from any search here CATTO makes a great prop and sterling company / people .
I have RV-4 with 0-360 ...1025 lbs empty ... planing CATTO 3 blade 68"x 75" ( biased toward climb performance)
Catto says about 2350-2400 RPM static and 2800 WOT @7500' and about 200 MPH
Looking for any performance figures with same or similar engine / prop combo and of course opinions and comments. Many thanks. Stew
 
My experience was not exactly like yours, but I'll share it anyway. I had a 160 HP O-320 powered RV-4 with a metal Sensenich 70CM7S16-0-81 that I replaced with a 3 Blade Catto 60X70. One BIG difference, the Catto looks way cooler.

2 Blade Sensenich:
IMG_0349-L.jpg


Catto:
Catto1-L.jpg


The Catto ran smoother, I think it ran quieter (it definitely sounded different), and you could really feel the difference when pulling off the power, it slowed down much quicker. I could actually go down and slow down at the same time, which I couldn't do with the Sensenich.

This was pitched more for cruise and at WOT it was faster than the Sensenich. At regular cruise, however, it wasn't quite the same. I usually cruised between 2400-2500 RPM. The Catto at the same RPM was a few MPH slower than the Sensenich. I had to increase about 100 RPM to get the same speed.

Right at 25 hours two of the nickle leading edges cracked. The folks at Catto were fantastic and actually sent me a new prop before I even sent back the old one. Since I didn't know why they cracked I put the Sensenich back on and sold the brand new Catto.

Up here in the Northwet I thought I needed the nickle leading edges to handle the rain, but that may not be the case. If I were to do it again, I think I would omit the nickle leading edges.

The one drawback was that it did make it more difficult to get the bottom cowl on and off. Not a deal breaker, but definitely trickier.
 
RV-7

RV-7 with 0-360 probably the same pitched Catto prop, empty weight 1114 lbs.
Tulsa OK 640 ft MSL turn around 2250 -2300 on take-off, easily climb at 1800+ fpm and WOT at altitude will turn 2750 -2800 rpm doing around 200+ mph.

Had the standard 2 blade sensi prop first and would not even think about going back.

As noted the Catto winds down quickly due to less inertia which is a benefit in the RV and in the -7 it actually helped the climb CHT's I think because of the narrower blades at the root.

Only downside is that it is so light you generally have to add weight up front to maintain a decent CG range when loaded, may not be an issue on the RV-4.
Figs
 
Moving battery

Thanks for that .... moving battery forward of firewall and adding full Raven inverted oil 8-9 lbs, also obviously forward of firewall so hoping to keep weight and balance close.
 
Just so folks know what has been done for the nickel edge issue mentioned in this thread.

They added an extra layer of carbon fiber on the front and back side of the prop. That matches the prop harmonics better to the nickel.

They now have nickel edges specifically made for them vice using of the shelf products.

They also use a different glue that is flexible.
 
no issues with nickel

+1 ref the nickel edge
per AX-0 I have about 120 hours on the Catto with no issues on the nickel leading edge including flying through rain etc.
Figs
 
+1 ref the nickel edge
per AX-0 I have about 120 hours on the Catto with no issues on the nickel leading edge including flying through rain etc.
Figs

Do those of you with the Catto nickel leading edges reduce your RPM when flying through rain? If so, to what RPM do you reduce?
 
RV4 - O360 180 HP Catto 2 blade, 68X76 - 2330 RPM static, 70% power, 2580-2620 RPM, 170kts.
I have run both the nickel leading edge and non nickel leading edge. I perfer the non-nickel leading edge - the prop pulls hard from initial throttle on takeoff. The prop with the nickel edge, would take 50 - 100 feet before it would start to pull hard on takeoff. Previous to the conversion to 180hp - I had a Catto prop on my O320 for 20 plus years. It was a noticeable performance improvement over the original Pacesetter that I installed when I built the airplane. The Catto family are great people to work with and they produce a great product.
 
Nickel leading edges

As I suspected and the main point of my call to CATTO coming up on Wednesday is the decision on whether to go with nickel leading edges or not ??? Really appreciate the insight provided here . Not intending to fly in rain ... BUT. and there is always the chance of FOD ... welcome any other comments and look forward to actually talking to CATTO people soon
 
I flew behind a Catto 3-blade for a while. I ordered a "cruise" prop and it really worked well in cruise. Climbing out on a hot/high day, not so much. I was only getting 2150 RPM on my takeoff roll. The prop was a 76 pitch and should have been 75. On the good side, it was MUCH smoother than the 2-blade, which was the main reason I bought it (besides looking sexy). The down side was the power off glide ratio sucked. Having three blades out there rather than two added a LOT of drag.
 
I have a Catto 3 blade 70x74 powered by an O-375 on my -8...

Biased for cruise, I see about 2200 rpm static and about 2500 at WOT and 10,500' giving a true airspeed of about 170 kts...

Take-off and climb is slightly more anaemic than some of my formation RV friends, but not excessively so.

I have nickel leading edges and would not be without them on this prop. In five years and ~630 hrs there is no abrasion apparent even considering flying into a number of gravel runways in the Yukon. My horizontal stab has not been quite so lucky. I do not hesitate to fly through even heavy rain at WOT, but have lost a bit of black paint off the back of the nickel, easy to touch up...

Something I have noticed with the 3 blade, asides from being smooth, is the ability to slow quickly when coming into formation... Pulling back to idle is probably more effective than the brakes I had on the Mooney...

YMMV...
 
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Perfect

Many thanks. Very much the feedback I was looking for ! Was definitely leaning towards nickel leading edges but I think for sure now.
 
Aerobatics

Any body flying aerobatics with CATTO 3 blade ? Is there a MAX RPM limition ?. I notice in the pictures on CATTO website that none of the aerobatic section pictures show any one with nickel leading edges ... now I understand that is probably just weight and flexibility consideration but does anybody know of a limitation in this regard on the prop itself or the addition of the nickel leading edge ?. I doubt it but worth asking. Cheers. Stew
 
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I told Craig Catto I wanted to see Van's numbers at 75% power. He built me a 66 inch X 75 inch 3 blade. This was pre nickel leading edge. I have a Superior IO360 with 9 to 1 pistons, port and polish and balanced, cylinders bench flow matched on my RV 8. He nailed it and at 8000 ft density altitude and 2700 turbine smooth rpm's, I get 178 knots true airspeed. This was the speed Van's used to post for a 180 hp RV 8. Normal cruise is 2475 rpm which yields 162 ktas at about 8 gallons per hour depending on altitude.
I put prop tape on it at one point and lost 3 or 4% in speed for the same rpm. That came off immediately.
Van's used to have a good write up in the construction manual about why a climb prop will out perform a cruise prop in all flight regimens and my experience supports their conclusions.
Wish I could post pictures as I would put up some screenshots of the amazing performance the combination of a light RV 8 and Catto 3 blade prop yields
 
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Catto 68 inch without nickel leading edges, 160 hp O-320 on a not very clean airframe, we were just about able to reach the 212 mph vne in level flight, and on the other end of the spectrum climb 1800 to 2000 fpm solo with half fuel.

Everybody tells me that our ASI must have been way off, since the aircraft should not be able to do this. However the backup steam gauge was showing the same speeds. So maybe a static port not doing so well? Yet showing the same altitude readings as the other aircraft when formation flying. And flying the socks off a 180 hp retractable geared Sequoia Falco.

Other than the outstanding Vans design, I really "blame" that Catto prop.

Compared to my hugely propped (74", wide-bladed, constant speed MT) Jodel, which also has a geared, high compression engine, pulling the throttle really didn't do much. So the -4 would not give me the instant braking that I was used to and required a bit more planning when joining a formation, or in short field landing. Small price to pay...

Good prop!

I really should not have sold my share in that aircraft....
 
Any body flying aerobatics with CATTO 3 blade ? Is there a MAX RPM limition ?. I notice in the pictures on CATTO website that none of the aerobatic section pictures show any one with nickel leading edges ... now I understand that is probably just weight and flexibility consideration but does anybody know of a limitation in this regard on the prop itself or the addition of the nickel leading edge ?. I doubt it but worth asking. Cheers. Stew

I have an older (2004) 3-blade that is labeled with a "Design RPM 2800, Prop Red Line RPM max. 3200". No nickel leading edge.
I've only just got started on my aerobatic testing and I try to keep under Lycoming's 2700 RPM limit. To do that I have to throttle back whenever the speed goes over 160 KIAS. (Now that I have the gear fairings on, I can exceed this in level flight).

I do find that if I keep the G load up (in the 3-4 range) when pulling out of a loop or whatever there is no problem with overspeeding the plane or prop.
 
3-blade catto real world experience.

Hi all .... looking for some real world experience. Obviously from any search here CATTO makes a great prop and sterling company / people .
I have RV-4 with 0-360 ...1025 lbs empty ... planing CATTO 3 blade 68"x 75" ( biased toward climb performance)
Catto says about 2350-2400 RPM static and 2800 WOT @7500' and about 200 MPH
Looking for any performance figures with same or similar engine / prop combo and of course opinions and comments. Many thanks. Stew

I put my down payment on a 3 blade nickle edge Catto at Oshkosh 2018. The prop was delivered November 2018 (Its a WORK OF ART!) but it had the wrong prop bolt size holes. I needed to work with them and ended up having a local machine shop ream them to the proper size. A week later, I then installed it on my 160HP RV-4 and flew it and found that I could easily spin it up to 3000RPM only getting about 160kts TAS in level flight. After a month or so of experimentation, Nicole at Catto quickly added me to the queue for another higher pitched prop. They said that it would take a few months.

Fast forward to Oshkosh 2019. Cleaning the plane the week before flying up still waiting on the new pitched prop, I found this:

7001-E2-EA-F720-4-FC1-A1-A1-09456-ED86938.jpg

2612358-C-9-D52-4-BB9-BC35-305-EE3993-C38.jpg


This is the "cracking of the nickel" that people here have discussed.

Would you believe that Nicole and Craig 2 day shipped me a loaner prop to get me to Oshkosh!? I was so happy. I took delivery of the final pitched prop 3 weeks ago (10/31/19 about one year after receiving the original prop). Below are the pictures and some numbers including the final pitch. I see right around 170kts TAS at 2750 RPM above 7,500DA. I also still get 1,200-1,500fpm climb solo and last week i was going in and out of a 1,700ft strip at max gross no issues at all what so ever!

79-F0-BE0-A-D912-4-CD5-AC97-5078-B52-CBF2-F.jpg

D178221-D-BBDC-4-F67-9999-4-E249-B6-F4-C4-D.jpg

4-D91846-A-D522-4-CDC-9780-8300-E096779-E.jpg


Its a fantastic prop, and the Catto family will take care of you, you just need to be patient while they work to design you the best prop that they can.
 
Nickel leading edge

There is NO doubt that CATTO is both quality product and that they offer incredible support based on everything I have ever read on forum . However the issue with the nickel leading edge concerns me greatly . I was under the impression any problems were a thing of the past but your experience is far more recent than I thought . I am convinced that I need the nickel leading edge but I want no part of a section of it coming off in flight with the attendant problems ! I had a call into CATTO today ( as scheduled) but we didn't get a chance to connect but I really must get their latest info on this ! Many thanks Stew
 
Prop me up

Hi all .... looking for some real world experience. Obviously from any search here CATTO makes a great prop and sterling company / people .
I have RV-4 with 0-360 ...1025 lbs empty ... planing CATTO 3 blade 68"x 75" ( biased toward climb performance)
Catto says about 2350-2400 RPM static and 2800 WOT @7500' and about 200 MPH
Looking for any performance figures with same or similar engine / prop combo and of course opinions and comments. Many thanks. Stew

Stew,
I was Craig’s first RV 2 blade beta test customer on my 150HP RV4 back in the early 90’s (68/68) Later I would test three more of his props including my current Gen II 2-blade prototype on my 180HP RV6”X”. (which sports the very first Nickel LEP) After nearly 1000 hours, 15 years and lots of punishment it’s still in great shape.

Performance? That’s easy, excellent. 70/70 pitch. 700-1000’ takeoff roll, 1500-2000’ FPM climb, 170 KTAS at 8500’ 2600 RPM 8.5-9gph. (Assuming properly faired, cowled, trimmed etc) I concur on climb pitch, it’s where you’ll spend most of your time and if you like acro and dogfighting (like me) you will appreciate the responsiveness. If you do go somewhere, go high where MP isn’t a factor with higher RPM.

In 25 years Craig’s customer service has been beyond superb and his props exceed expectations.
Have faith.
:)
V/R
Smokey


RV6X (yes, it’s in my garage!)
 
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The Catto props and and Catto family are amazing! I have a 68x83 with nickel on my -4 and love it! I do formation, aerobatic, breakfast runs, X-country and even Reno this year and it preforms flawless! Not going to get into pitch as Nicole is the expert on that, but for RPM I turn mine around 3,000rpm at times and Craig seams to be fine with that, I fly through lots of rain and the nickle does its job and no signs of wear. Catto has an amazing carbon spinner! Well worth the money and it comes all fitted and ready to bolt on. You wont be disappointed with a Catto prop!
 
Ordered

Ordered my CATTO 3 blade today ...66x75 ( I want it biased toward climb ) Ready by March which gives my time ( I hope ) to complete some other work on the plane. Many thanks for all your responses. Cheers. Stew
 
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