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Runway numbers changing...BACK !!

pierre smith

Well Known Member
Our runway numbers changed from 12-30 about ten years ago, to 13-31. I was just informed that they're changing BACK to 12-30, shortly.

What kinda phenomenon causes this? I thought that the next change would be to 14-32..

Thanks,
 
Runway numbers

According to the doomsday special I watched a few weeks ago, its because the magnetic poles are going to swap suddenly then BAM, end of the world!! It must be true cause it was on TV!:D
 
numbers

It's called "government". Geeeez. I'm approximately 150 miles south with almost the same headings (14-32) and ours have never changed. I guess you'll call downwind wrong for a while until you get used to your new/old numbers.
 
Our runway numbers changed from 12-30 about ten years ago, to 13-31. I was just informed that they're changing BACK to 12-30, shortly.

What kinda phenomenon causes this? I thought that the next change would be to 14-32..

Thanks,

Logically it looks like it should change to 14-31 as the airport information shows the runway at 136-316 degrees magnetic. :confused:

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
If my ancient Mayan isn't too rusty, I think that's the first sign of the end of the world coming up on the 21st....yes, it says right there ...."Pierre's runway magnetic bearings will fluctuate..." ;)

Eat, Drink and be Merry folks.... while you still can.... :)
 
Capitalism

My vote is for a runway-marker painting contractor that has lined the pockets of the right federal bureaucrat.
 
The magnetic pole does "wander" with time, in a little understood and hard to predict way. Apparently it has moved back to where it was earlier.

PS Because GPS units have an up to date database while VORs are only re-aligned once in a while, you sometimes will see a gps track of 150 to track a VOR radial of 151, etc.
 
Magnetic Declination Calculator

The most probable reason is that your magnatic declination has varied back to where it was some years ago.

You can calculate it here for any location in the US

Cheers
 
I'm surprised none of the Naval Aviators in the group called out the correct answer: your runway is moving. They're all used to that. The rest of us expect our runways to stay where we put them.

--
Stephen
 
.........The magnetic pole does "wander" with time, in a little understood and hard to predict way. Apparently it has moved back to where it was earlier.

.

Thanks, Bob but it was 12-30 for nearly 30 years and it's been roughly ten years as 13-31, and now I hear that only ten years later, it's back to 12-30.

Must be a hard-to-understand thing, but if it kept going in one direction, it could get weird, like 18-36 in 3,000:eek:

Thanks,
 
Pierre,

Take a look at this historical map of the magnetic north pole. It's been wandering left and right for years. My guess is it's moving back in the opposite direction.
567px-Magnetic_North_Pole_Positions.svg.png


Phil
 
In one of my jobs we actually measure the earth's magnetism. don't be suprised if you wake up some day and the compass says the sun is rising in the north, or any other direction for that matter.
 
I hate when they have to change the numbers...

Most likely it's due to either pranksters digging up the runway and rotating it slightly. Either that or the airport management decided to realign to prevailing winds that have changed due to global warming... :D
 
#

I think its caused from the huge dam China built it filled up 10 years ago now China is in a drought and its tilting back as second thought your airport should get a sign like gas station were it can be changed from FBO. Best of luck to you if were still here after the 21st.
 
Do you have any certifiable nerds in the area? Back in the day, I know of "some" nerd types that collected military surplus magnetrons and pried the huge magnets apart to create a local "disturbance in the force". This magnetic variation was detectable for several blocks.

Another thought...do you spray with heavy metal compounds in the ag business?:eek:
 
Sorry Pierre , I was testing my tesla coil again. I'll leave it off for now:D

Bird
 
Hay bird...when we tested in the proximity of an active Tesla coil, we could not detect or confirm a magnetic field disturbance using a cheapie 'ol pocket compass. But then with the magnetrons at the other end of the lab, we could have perminately altered the field of the compass.
 
Check this out for calculation of historic magnetic declination (based on the National Geophysical Data Center's model for the magnetic field):

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/struts/historicPoint

For Louisville GA it show magnetic declination changing continuously in one direction since 1970, from 1?7" W to 5?57" W. There doesn't appear to be a physical reason why the Pierre's runway orientation should have changed first in one direction and then the other, so apparently "government bureaucracy" may be the correct answer?
 
Pierre

Why is Pierre's runway the only one changing? It seems to me that all runway headings would change that are included in the "wandering boundaries" of longitude that the magnetic pole moves in. I don't know all I understand about this.......................
 
I hate when they have to change the numbers...

Most likely it's due to either pranksters digging up the runway and rotating it slightly. Either that or the airport management decided to realign to prevailing winds that have changed due to global warming... :D

Looks like the farmers kids have finally gotten bored creating UFO crop circles and have moved on to shifting runways! Or maybe some Inuit kids up in Canada are moving the magnetic pole. :rolleyes:

Charlie
 
Canadian government and military playing around with the magnetic pole to see if anyone's noticing... :eek:
 
One Degree????

My question is why would anyone worry about a one degree change - even if it was true... My piloting skills aren't that precise!... my compass probably isn't either.
 
If I told you the real answer, I would have to kill you all..... That's too much trouble, therefore, the answer will remain a secret.:D

Greg
 
Cutting Costs

The state of Georgia got a deal on surplus "ones" and "threes", whereas the price of "twos" and "zeroes" doubled. Just saving on the budget...:D
 
PDK has reported that they are changing 2-20 to 3-21 in the near future.

John Morgan

We intentional call our 2/20 runway 1/19 to prevent radio call confusion over "twos"....:)

However in 50 years or so the markings will be correct, so perhaps they were just thinking ahead when the aipark was initially laid out...:D
 
just another conspiracy theory....

...evidently from the plot of locations, they coincide with a group of Ukrainian nuclear wessels doing some sneaky stuff, dragging the big chunk o' submerged magnetic ore towards the true pole, thereby making all GPS's obsolete!!! :)
 
Magnetic variation

The North and South Poles have vary a lot during Earths history. There is an excellent article on NASA's science web page.
Here is the link:(hope I did that correctly)
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/29dec_magneticfield/

There is also a science page that is dirctly reffering to the change of rumway numbers:
http://www.livescience.com/9231-earths-magnetic-field-shifts-forcing-airport-runway-change.html

If the link dosen't work here is the jist of the article.

What's going on in Florida?

Travelers have struggled with the complexity of navigating by compass for centuries, and modern American travelers are no exception.

Runways are designated according to the points on a compass, and the drifting magnetic north means that they, periodically, need to be renamed.

"Recently, the drift has caused our runways' orientations to be closer to the next increment on the magnetic compass," Tampa International Airport spokeswoman Brenda Geoghagan told LiveScience in an e-mail.

For example, the west parallel runway, which was named 36Left ?18Right to designate compass points of 360 degrees and 180 degrees, is being renamed to 1Left ? 19Right, to indicate 10 degrees and 190 degrees, since the runway designations are separated into 10-degree increments.

Adjustments to runways like this and to navigational aids are ongoing, according to Kathleen Bergen, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration's Southern Region. A third airport is scheduled to rename its runways in October; however, the changes aren't necessary for all airports in the Tampa Bay area, she said.

Every five years, federal agencies tabulate and publish a value called magnetic variation, which varies by location. Similar to declination, it correlates true direction to the magnetic compass readings needed for navigation.

These values are used to update navigational aids, such as instrument landing systems and beacons, she said. If there is a change of more than three degrees at any given airport, then runways need to be renumbered, as is happening at the Florida airports, Bergen said.

While aviation in the United States still relies on ground-based radar, which is calibrated to the local magnetic variation, it is moving toward a satellite-based system.

"Runways are still aligned toward magnetic poles. That?s not going to change," she said.


Jim
 
If there is a change of more than three degrees at any given airport, then runways need to be renumbered, as is happening at the Florida airports, Bergen said.

So 188 degrees to 191 degrees requires a runway change? No doubt it is not just a matter of "three degrees."

I can see 194 degrees to 197 or even 196 degrees.
 
Every five years, federal agencies tabulate and publish a value called magnetic variation, which varies by location. Similar to declination, it correlates true direction to the magnetic compass readings needed for navigation.


...and all of the time I thought the magnetic variation lines printed on the Sectional charts were up to date...:rolleyes:

Checked a few old sectionals against the latst and they all refer to the 2010 database.
 
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