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5 seconds to decide, what would you do?

Bryan Wood

Bryan Wood

Well Known Member
Here's a question for my fellow RVators. Please play by the rules on this one which is simply to respond with the best answer that you can come up within 5 seconds from reading the impending situation that you will find yourself in. This is something that happened to me yesterday and frankly wasn't much fun. :D It might be educational to post questions like this from our experiences so we can learn what we are, or might not be ready for. This was an eye opener. I'm ready to learn from quick decisions that were forced in your flying, whether they proved to be good or bad. Please join in.

Your Scenario

At a towered class D airport you call in your arrival at an established and charted reporting point. Your are told to enter on a 45 for right traffic. You know there is somebody right behind you because you just passed him. There is an RV that calls for a straight in and you know that he is the same distance out as you from your experience. There are planes in the pattern with training going on. There are departures happening at the same time. IE, it is busy. As you are about to turn from the 45 to downwind you here a clicking in your headset and it takes a couple of seconds to recognize the noise. It is your own radio keying! In disbelief you look at the display on your radio and sure enough the "TX" is rapidly going on and off. The radio doesn't stay keyed enough for a quick message to the tower, but won't quit this nonsense either so the tower cannot talk to airplanes and vice versa. You wiggle your push to talk and the problem doesn't quit. The frequency is now tied up at this busy airport and it is your plane causing it. You are now turning downwind with no landing clearance, what do you do? 5 seconds...
 
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right or wrong, here is what I did

Here is what I did, right or wrong. What is amazing is how time appears to slow down while working a high speed problem. I turned off my #1 radio to kill the xmit. Immediately the #2 acted just like the other. I turned it off also. Okay, the tower is in control again. Do I squawk 7600, or is it 7700? My mind is jello so I wait on the xpndr. Back on with the #1 and the problem returns. Off again and I'm sure 7600 is right. Where's the kneeboard to confirm? No time, I'm in the pattern! 7600 it is so it is entered. I stuff my prop forward to slow down. Back on with the #1 and I see that the PS engineering audio panel is flickering with the radio being keyed. I switch it to off or failsafe. The problem quits and my radio is on. An immediate call to tower to confess my problem. I'm casually told to squawk VFR and that I'm cleared to land #2.

Now I'm going to have to look for a loose wire at the mike jack, possibly from the jack twisting while being tightened down. ??? Since both radios were affected I'm guessing this to be the cause, or a shorted wire or push to talk. At least it is something to do next weekend. :eek:
 
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Switch to comm 2 and turn off comm 1. If no comm 2 then turn off radio and turn airplane out of traffic pattern to re-assess.
 
Turn the radio off, remain in the pattern, keep your eyes peeled remain clear of all traffic.

Good excercise! Glad it worked out Bryan, you did the right thing..... fly the airplane.

(Leaving the pattern may only cause you to re-enter with no control. The tower can see you and now knows they cannot talk to you. JHMO)
 
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Safety first

Bryan,
I am impressed that your main consideration was the safety of all the other aircraft in the pattern. Thats good SA. A lot of folks would probably fixate on their own problem inside their aircraft. I probably would have done the same thing, except I might have started a climb above the pattern altitude and circled around to get a green light signal from the tower.

Chuck Olsen
Tehachapi
RV-7A
 
I operate out of a similar class D, and it can get very busy in a very compact space. The 5mi. radius is pretty small. Ok, here is what my brain did, playing along: From the mid-field right downwind, with all **** breaking loose with the radios but the airplane flying fine, I departed the pattern to the left, 45 degrees to clear the swarm of traffic and continue diagnosing until hopefully finding the off button to the audio panel as you did. Kudos to you for accomplishing all that on downwind.
 
Go Around <FAST>

Pull up and go around and change freqs. Can save others lives and your own.
 
Eject, eject!

Pull the eject cord between your legs and hope you have your parachute on.
 
cbo111 said:
Bryan,
I am impressed that your main consideration was the safety of all the other aircraft in the pattern. Thats good SA. A lot of folks would probably fixate on their own problem inside their aircraft. I probably would have done the same thing, except I might have started a climb above the pattern altitude and circled around to get a green light signal from the tower.

Chuck Olsen
Tehachapi
RV-7A
Click to expand...


Agreed - my first reaction would be kill the radio, first and foremost. Tower needs to work the traffic, that was good situational awareness. Then climb 1000' above pattern and circle the tower waiting for a light gun. They'll figure it out real quick. Honestly, I don't know that I would try to troubleshoot this particular scenario much past that point until I was on the ground, since at that point tower is already aware of your presence and watching you because you're doing something unexpected. If you depart the pattern and troubleshoot, and come back NORDO, you'll have to get their attention all over again with unknown traffic.
 
My 5 second reaction was to climb 500 to stay above the pattern, but STAY in the pattern race track. I fly out of class D also, and the tower will quickly figure out that you've had a change of plans, and no longer intend to land on this trip around the pattern. They'll say "RV XXX, say intentions." When you don't answer, wag your wings, and they should understand you have a comm failure, and issue instructions. I carry a light gun signal card every time, so that's next.

Funny you post this Bryan...this similar situation happened last week at my airport, but it wasn't all that busy. The pilot was able to click for confirmation of instructions, but he still got the light gun. The controller did tell him what signal was coming, and what it meant.

Good post!
 
You guys must have a much better class D than ours. We don't have radar in ours. It would have been a few minutes at best before our controllers got a call from the Austin radar site 20mi. away to let them know someone was squawking 7600. 1000' above, they're pretty blind. If you assume class D with radar, without it is a whole different story, just a little better (most of the time) than uncontrolled.
 
what I'd have done

Switch to other COM. if that doesn't work, turn off both COMS, enter pattern as normal, switch TDR to 7600 and look for light signals (they are on my kneeboard). Land, turn off runway, and look for more light signals. Taxi, park, call tower (say thanks) and debug.

BTW Bryan - you did great. I'm impressed that you shut off the audio panel to take advantage of its emergency mode. Most people don't know their avionics that well.

dave
 
Good exercise!

Initial thoughts: Since they were already expecting you, kill the radios, continue in the pattern, clear for other traffic and look for the light. Land and call the tower.
 
As some others have said, my first reaction was to turn left and exit the pattern while diagnosing the problem (and minimizing any interruption of communications). Although, now that I think of it, I probably would have done the same as you Bryan. However, if I was flying a Cirrus, I would have pulled the 'chute.:p
 
Interesting...

Jim P said:
Good exercise!

Initial thoughts: Since they were already expecting you, kill the radios, continue in the pattern, clear for other traffic and look for the light. Land and call the tower.
Click to expand...

.... I think I'd do the same as Jim says. Since you were just about in the pattern, follow the guy in front of you.

In my area, I know that some Class D towers in the PHX areas have radar, but I don't think the Tucson Class D (Ryan) does.

Flashing your landing light on final might also be productive - the tower guys would catch on quick.

If I left the pattern, I think I would also leave the Class D area and land at a quiet, non-towered airport to trouble shoot....:)
 
I would have turned the radio off, and squawked 7600, and watched the tower for the light gun. This case is why they have the light gun. I would have continued with my landing.

Keeping the tower frequency open is important.
 
Bryan,

First, very nice job! You kept your head and did a great job!

My 5 sec reaction was (and I concur with Bob and Gil and others):

-Radio off (give the tower back its radio).
-Squawk 7600 (just in case they have radar).
-Rock my wings on downwind (if the tower doesn't see it, maybe the guy ya passed on the 45 will tell them what he sees).
-Look for the straight-in guy and fly a normal pattern (stay predictable).
-Look for the light from the tower.

Good job staying safe and flying your airplane first!!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Do what they expect

You did right. My 5 second answer comes from my IFR ticket which is to do what ATC is expecting you to do. Stay the plan, and in this case they are expecting you to follow the airplanes in front of you; follow the right hand pattern and land. So I would have:
1) turned off dysfunctioning radios
2) squawked 7600,
3) I probably wouldn't have looked for lights because . . .
3) followed the traffic and landed
4) and then when on the ground, call tower on your cell phone

I would definitely not depart without closing loop with tower because they like it when you talk to them and hate it when you don't.

have fun
 
My initial thought was.....
You are already in controlled airspace? You have announced your intention to land with your inbound call. Follow your last instruction and then as planned/announced.
ATC are expecting you to do that, so continue on and do that - anything else may make things confusing as ATC no longer knows what you are doing.
As others have said, make yourself visible if you can by waggling wings or flashing lights, look-out for traffic and tower lights. Tower will notice your situation when you fail to announce position/requirement, then they should clear space around you along your expected course - thats why its important to continue as expected. They can't do that if you diverge off elsewhere.
Worry about the niceties when you are safe on the ground.

Congrats on great on-the-spot trouble shooting.
 
Nice job!. Catching the audio panel sounds like it was the key. Good reason to understand how our audio panels behave in failure modes. IIRC, mine is set up so that I can still transmit and receive directly through comm 1 with the audio panel off. I will test this today. Now I have a great excuse for going to the airport again today!:)
 
Had a similar a couple years ago, but hadn't entered the pattern. I will admit I didn't think of 7600, but pulled my handheld out and was out of contact only about 30 seconds. This is exactly the reason the handheld has the adapter already plugged in and is in the closest side pocket. Yup, I check the batteries regularly. To me, the biggest distraction was the loss of concentration on flying the airplane while I swapped. I should have taken a few seconds and engaged the AP.

Bob Kelly
 
Havnt read the replys yet but I'd turn off my radio, clear my path and climb like heck. Better to sort this out away frm a busy pattern.
 
I would flip-flop to Ground control. That way I might be able to talk to the tower, and not block the tower frq.
Roy Geer (Jarhead)
 
Turn the radio off; continue the pattern. Squawk 7600, do not descend on base or final but fly straight through at pattern altitude rocking your wings. Look for a green light from the tower. Green light is permission to land...

Diagnose your problems on the ground, not in the air.

Now I'll go read the other answers...

Cheers,

Bill

Edit: Good job - you remembered the first rule of emergencies, which is "Fly the Airplane!"


Self grading my test. I was unclear in that I said "fly straight through at pattern altitude." If you start rocking your wings on downwind and get a green light before base, you may land - otherwise, stay in the pattern at altitude with the flow and keep rocking your wings until they wake up.

Key lessons:

- You should not make a self-determination to land without the light - for all you know there may be another emergency occurring on the ground
- You should not climb or leave the pattern - stay in the pattern where they can see you (and where you can easily keep tabs on other aircraft in the pattern) until they acknowledge you. If they give the (steady red?) signal that the airport is closed then divert to another airfield.
 
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scary thought

I went with radio off, 7600, and continue to land. That was my first instinct. Not saying I am right or wrong.

I remember my flight instructor saying that the rules that govern flight are there so that all pilots will do the same things and the other pilots will know what to expect. This exercise has shown that there were many different ideas of what the right thing to do was. At my local unicom airport we have people doing dumb things all the time when they do wrong direction patterns or leave or join incorrectly. I guess in an emergency situation it will be just that much worse!
 
Turn off your radio, depart the pattern. Squawk 7600. If time/fuel permit, switch to air-air freq and try to inflight troubleshoot whats happening.

If unable to fix the problem, I'd advise landing somewhere besides the busy GA airport. Recover to a quiet uncontrolled field where you can get down with no conflicts. Squawking 7600 is good to do, but be advised many towers won't see your squawk code since they might not have repeater radar in the tower.

If you must land at a towered airport, follow the procedures for doing that as a NO-COMM aircraft. Departing from the published procedures (see AIM) and cooking up your own NORDO practice would be dangerous to the entire operation. IMHO, continuing with your pattern and a 7600 squawk in this situation might be like throwing a cat into the hen house. Depends on traffic, tower equipment, and the tower's ability to quickly pick up on the problem. I wouldn't bet on this working very well.

Remember, radios don't generate lift or thrust. Take your time, and find the most suitable recovery option. You aren't constrained to 5 seconds in this scenario.
 
First, I would very respectfully suggest that in your thought processes you greatly de-emphasize the importance of a radio in this case, nice VFR day, who needs it. I'm not trying to be flippant or condescending like Al Gore but, don't ever let a radio problem rise to the level of anything more than an irritation unless you're hard IFR. Even in bad weather on an IFR flight plan, make your way to an ILS with 7600 set in your x-ponder and land. It is just that simple. Don't waste any extra heart beats on radio failures.

You did right, turn the offending radio off and of course, stay in the pattern. Flying away from the airport would only benefit the guy that sells you av gas. I wouldn't bother with comm #2 (how many radios do you have in that thing?) instead focus your attention on traffic. Fly a circuit or two until the tower notices that you need a light. If your out of gas and they still haven't acknowledged you with a green light, land.

Most of the tower people are little airplane drivers like you and me and eager to help you out.
 
Initial Responce

Turn off the radio, Squak 7600, and Land. Call the tower and explaine.

After catching my breath I would look at the tower for light signals. and try to remember what they mean.

Guess I'll go relearn my light gun signals.:eek:
 
Bryan Wood said:
Here's a question for my fellow RVators. Please play by the rules on this one which is simply to respond with the best answer that you can come up within 5 seconds from reading the impending situation that you will find yourself in. This is something that happened to me yesterday and frankly wasn't much fun. :D It might be educational to post questions like this from our experiences so we can learn what we are, or might not be ready for. This was an eye opener. I'm ready to learn from quick decisions that were forced in your flying, whether they proved to be good or bad. Please join in.

Your Scenario

At a towered class D airport you call in your arrival at an established and charted reporting point. Your are told to enter on a 45 for right traffic. You know there is somebody right behind you because you just passed him. There is an RV that calls for a straight in and you know that he is the same distance out as you from your experience. There are planes in the pattern with training going on. There are departures happening at the same time. IE, it is busy. As you are about to turn from the 45 to downwind you here a clicking in your headset and it takes a couple of seconds to recognize the noise. It is your own radio keying! In disbelief you look at the display on your radio and sure enough the "TX" is rapidly going on and off. The radio doesn't stay keyed enough for a quick message to the tower, but won't quit this nonsense either so the tower cannot talk to airplanes and vice versa. You wiggle your push to talk and the problem doesn't quit. The frequency is now tied up at this busy airport and it is your plane causing it. You are now turning downwind with no landing clearance, what do you do? 5 seconds...
Click to expand...


My decision, stay in the downwind, do not turn base period. You do not have clearance to land. If the radio stays inop, leave the pattern and try to correct if not, stay away. I suppose you could turn the radio off and circle above the airport(1000ft above traffic pattern) until you get light signals to go back into the pattern. Main thing, do not turn base to final. Also if your radio is falting you will need to turn it off.
 
G Swartley said:
Turn off the radio, Squak 7600, and Land. Call the tower and explaine.

After catching my breath I would look at the tower for light signals. and try to remember what they mean.

Guess I'll go relearn my light gun signals.:eek:
Click to expand...

Not trying to be flippant here, but if you just land without clearance, I wouldn't trust anything, file a NASA report to be on the safe side.
 
You did get your radio back.

Assuming that didn't happen, I would squawk 7600 and remain in the pattern but would not decend. Being told to enter a 45 for a right downwind, I would continue with what is expected next which is turn downwind. Since not cleared yet to land, I would not decend, stay in the pattern, rock the wings and expect the light.

If you depart or climb, then the controller doesn't know what you are going to do next. If you stay in the pattern at pattern altitude, the controller is going to notice it and you will be direction that other planes are moving. A 7600 squawk along with a plane not decending is going to clue him in rather quickly. After 2-3 trips around the pattern, I would think the controller would be able to respond according to what he is expecting from you. Also if you leave, then you will have to fly into another field with no announcement of arrival. To me that is far worse than being in a situation where your help on the ground is trained to handle this issue.

After landing, call the tower and thank them for their assistance in getting you down.

My two cents worth.
 
Bryan Wood said:
Here's a question for my fellow RVators. Please play by the rules on this one which is simply to respond with the best answer that you can come up within 5 seconds from reading the impending situation that you will find yourself in. This is something that happened to me yesterday and frankly wasn't much fun. :D It might be educational to post questions like this from our experiences so we can learn what we are, or might not be ready for. This was an eye opener. I'm ready to learn from quick decisions that were forced in your flying, whether they proved to be good or bad. Please join in.

Your Scenario

At a towered class D airport you call in your arrival at an established and charted reporting point. Your are told to enter on a 45 for right traffic. You know there is somebody right behind you because you just passed him. There is an RV that calls for a straight in and you know that he is the same distance out as you from your experience. There are planes in the pattern with training going on. There are departures happening at the same time. IE, it is busy. As you are about to turn from the 45 to downwind you here a clicking in your headset and it takes a couple of seconds to recognize the noise. It is your own radio keying! In disbelief you look at the display on your radio and sure enough the "TX" is rapidly going on and off. The radio doesn't stay keyed enough for a quick message to the tower, but won't quit this nonsense either so the tower cannot talk to airplanes and vice versa. You wiggle your push to talk and the problem doesn't quit. The frequency is now tied up at this busy airport and it is your plane causing it. You are now turning downwind with no landing clearance, what do you do? 5 seconds...
Click to expand...

Kill the radio and look to the tower for the light gun.
 
Make sure

You don't put 7500 into the sqwark box unless you wan the TSA to decend on your head in full force..Probably about 3 weeks after the emergency..:)

Frank
 
5 sec

I'd continue on downwind carefully and pull mike jack to see if this stops xt activity. If not, reinsert and go to radio #2 (there is one?). Exit pattern to left if no contact with twr before x-wind or any conflict apparent. Bill (sorry, took me more than 5 sec to type)
 
I probably would have stayed in the pattern between other traffic like at OSH in July, turned final, rocked my wings to get the controllers attention and look for a green light. No green light, fly down the runway and rock the wings some more. Eventually, they would figure it out and get the light signal gun out.
 
David-aviator said:
I probably would have stayed in the pattern between other traffic like at OSH in July, turned final, rocked my wings to get the controllers attention and look for a green light. No green light, fly down the runway and rock the wings some more. Eventually, they would figure it out and get the light signal gun out.
Click to expand...

This is what this newb would have done. If I didn't get a light signal, I would probably have remained at pattern altitude for a lap until they figured me out. But you were cleared to be in the airspace (so to speak). I would have been too stupid to turn off the radio though, which in my mind is the biggest part of the problem!!:eek:

I tell you, stories like this and all the similar things you can read on the AOPA site of other publications, are the biggest bang for the learning buck, to me.
 
I guess my previous response was...

....technically against the FARs...:)

It seems light signals must be recieved to be legal - FAR 91.129 snippet

(d) Communications failure. Each person who operates an aircraft in a Class D airspace area must maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that area.

(1) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with §91.185 of the part.

(2) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under VFR, the pilot in command may operate that aircraft and land if --

(i) Weather conditions are at or above basic VFR weather minimums;

(ii) Visual contact with the tower is maintained; and

(iii) A clearance to land is received.

So it seems you can fly anywhere in the Class D you think is safe as long as they can see you....:)

Note that transponder codes are not mentioned.

But I couldn't whip out the FAR book while flying and read it in the 5 seconds of this test...:D

With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think I would continue to approach, rock my wings, flash the landing light and wait for a light signal if this happened to me - all while extracting my big checklist book that has the cheat sheet for light signals in the back of it...:)
 
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Yikes

Squawk 7600
turn off the radio
slow down a lot
grab the hand help from my flight bag and call the tower
If that radio doesn't work, look at the radio out procedures I keep handy and follow them
If I thought there was going to be a traffic problem, I would not hesitate to take matters into my own hands and leave the pattern until I got things sorted out.
 
Shut the radio off, land. Call tower somehow after landing. I don't think I would have had time to think of anything else in 5 s. Nothing else really important other than to look for traffic.
 
IMHO you spent to much time with your head IN the cockpit. 7600, acquire the aircraft ahead of you and land as cleared.
Tom
 
Iam not landing without a clearance, I would rather buzz the tower inverted (Iam kidding!).

Lights or cell phone to tower for clearance, 7600.

I don't want to disrupt a busy traffic pattern NORDO. I climb, circle and look for lights.
 
it happened to me last year, not as busy at our airport

Solo training flight, circuits.

RX, no TX at all (PTT failed), so I wasn't trashing all radio traffic.

Tower transitioned to light codes quickly enough, no go around.

Nordo, do your best to look out for the base/final turn and traffic, flying the plane. I was chanting airspeed, airspeed to stay aware. YMMV.

IIRC, I was able to see the light well once I turned base.

Established on final, look to tower for light codes again for clearance to land.
- cleared, land, off to taxiway as able. All done circuits for this trip.

Light codes again.
If you don't know them, dust them off!

I liked the idea of carrying a cheater card on my kneeboard.

-----------------------
Emergency procedures checklists require rehearsal to become automatic.
All you wiser, older pilots probably know that already.
Practice them, including movements.

I'm still training, hopefully not for much longer :)

Thanks for the reminder.
 
Great Thread

I don't remember the details... ..time to dust off the manual, but I thought the AIM procedure was to climb to pattern + 500, circle, and look for light signals (if only I remembered them).

This is really a great exercise. Thanks for the thread!
 
Ok 5 second answer, I bugged out of the area. You did a good job getting all that done and staying in the fray. I think I would have done the left turn and got the heck out of there. Did some in flight missile repairman work and hopefully got to the same condition you did in the pattern.
 
5 seconds

It's probally been 20 years since I read the AIM and I dont have one to reference as Im sure you didn't at the time but a squaking 7500 or 7600 would certainily have got the controllers attention followed by safely turning base to final doing a low approach with a little wing waggle because he would be watching you now.Then remaining in the pattern and looking for light gun signals for clearance to land I belive is what the AIM says. Nevertheless great job, you exercised your captains emergency authority is what I hope you put in your NASA / Get Out Of Jail Free report.
 
wow, the variety of answers is a little scary... you did great! As to what the next step would be if you didn't get comm back, I'll generate argument but its pretty straight forward really:

1. Its true you had not been cleared to land BUT
2. You called in with stated intentions to land when the tower cleared you to join the flow
3. It was a reasonable expectation on everyone's part that you would have been cleared to land as the pattern progressed - yours and the controllers
4. Assuming you can see that no one is taking the active or sitting on the runway, I would land following a normal pattern and explain it on the ground

The controller is going to figure out very quickly that he can no longer talk to you when you turn base without direction and definitely by the time you establish final. I would fully expect a light gun on final and only under extreme circumstances would I expect anything other than "put it on the ground".

The last thing a busy controller wants is someone suddenly doing something unexpected. If you suddenly climb or depart the pattern he has absolutely no clue what your intentions are - and you have no idea who he may have already sequenced or cleared around you. Instead of the controller only worrying about clearing a runway for you as its obvious you intend to land, he's got to move everyone out of your way as he's wondering what the heck you are going to do next.

Extend the downwind a little, rock your wings on final if you want, turn on lights and whatever to insure you have his attention and then do what you would normally do. And file that NASA report right after you call the tower and thank them for all of their help.
 
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