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Advice on Engine Pre-heat

A

Airzen

Well Known Member
As I get ready to order my engine from Aero Sport, I need to decide if I should go with pre-installed engine heating system (Reiff). I am hoping those who have gone before me can provide some guidance.

Here are some of the factors that I think would influence the decision.

1) I am in Seattle area where winter temperatures are not too severe (in thirties mostly). However, one consideration is that I'd hate to get stranded in colder part of the country. I hoping to to do at least one cross-country in winters

2) Weight: It seems that the Reiff system is not to heavy (2 lbs I think), but still more moving parts, more wires under the cowl and thus more complexity. I do want a sporty plane so I need to think twice about adding something that I might use only a few times a year.

3) Cost: The oil sump heater is 275$ and the full pre-heat system is 525$. So the amount is non-trivial.

4) Installation: Since Aero Sport will install it for me, I am assuming the resulting installation will be reliable (and perhaps better than a retro-fit if I decided to get it later).

So I'd like to seek some advice from folks: What would you folks advice given the things I have mentioned above?

Thanks in advance,
Ashish
 
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I've found that a 75W lightbulb in my cowl will raise the entire engine 15-20 degrees above ambient and two 75W bulbs will raise it 30-35 degrees. This in conjunction will cowl plugs and an old sleeping bag draped over the top of the cowl. For the rare times you would really need preheat on the west side of the mountains, this might be a more cost effective option. If you're traveling you're going to need access to electricity, so it might be that you'd be paying for an FBO preheat anyway.
 
Airzen said:
As I get ready to order my engine from Aero Sport, I need to decide if I should go with pre-installed engine heating system (Reiff). I am hoping those who have gone before me can provide some guidance.

4) Installation: Since Aero Sport will install it for me, I am assuming the resulting installation will be reliable (and perhaps better than a retro-fit if I decided to get it later).
Click to expand...

I'm not going to get into the debate whether it's a good idea to install a Reiff system. Although, I will state that I am installing a standard Reiff system on my RV-10 this weekend.

My personal opinion is that I don't want a light bulb running all the time while I'm away from the hangar. I will have the Reiff system controlled by a cell phone switch that only costs me about $3/month to operate. I can control the heater from my iPhone or iPad. I understand that others will have different opinions. There isn't a right or wrong here, just preference.

In the midwest, I haven't found a problem getting electricity at remote airports. Most FBO's (and all RV'ers) usally will let you run an extension cord to your plane. You may want to carry an appropriate size cord with you.

If Aerosport will install it for you, I would highly recommend it. Not that the install is difficult. The problem is that you need 24-48 hours at 75 degrees to cure the epoxy to mount the heating pad per Reiff's instructions. There are several of us (see the Reiff thread) that have been battling getting this installed in 30 degree hangars with minimal heat.

bob
 
PNW preheat

I recently went with the sump heating pad and cell phone activated switch. I did the light bulb bit last winter and was not happy with that.

The heating pad is simple and works great. I did a write up in this months newsletter of our EAA chapter.
http://www.eaa902.org/January13NL.pdf
 
heat

On my Maule I have the full Reiff system but no thermostat and it heats things up in about one hour with a moving blanket on top of the cowl.I have flown in temps below zero. When choosing the heating equipment for my RV 8 I went with Reiff dual oil sump pads with thermostat. With 20 degree temps in 2 hours I am showing 85 degree oil temp at start up.With a moving blanket on top of cowl the entire engine is warm to touch and it fires right up. I am very pleased with the dual pads and thermostat and would recommend that set up. I need to look into the cell phone switch. Thanks Ron
 
I have the full Reiff system ...

...that I ordered from Aerosport with my engine. Here in the midwest, I would not be without it. This winter has made it clear it was worth every penny I paid and then some.
As others said, coupled with the cell-phone-activated switch, it's unbeatable in the winter. The Reiff system warms the oil temp ~ 10F per hour and the cyl heads a little less than that. On a recent 12F morning, my oil was 76F and the CHTs 58-60F ...makes for instant starts .

Given what the engine costs, another $525 for winter piece of mind is about a 2% increase in price. Easy decision for me. :)
 
I have a single "unregulated car engine" 6" x 6" heating pad glued to the bottom of the O-360 oil sump with red RTV. I also have a cell phone activated timer attached. It takes 3 hours to bring the oi from 20F to 70F. Just for informational background, several years back I bought a certified heating unit for by C-182P and the seller would not sell the single heating pad. They said one heating pad created excessive moisture in the engine. Their unit had a pad on the bottom and one on the top of the engine case and heating elements on each of the 6 heads (Continental). Additionally, the seller said never leave the heater on continuously due to moisture accumulation on the interior of the engine. Botton line, if you turn on the heater, fly the engine to dry it out. Dan
 
When I absolutely need pre-heat, I have a small ceramic space heater with a flexible aluminum duct attached to the front of it. I place the heater on the ground, roughly right below the pilot's seat, and route the exit from the aluminum duct up into my exhaust opening. With the heater on at 1500W output, I drape a jacket around behind my prop and over the cowl openings. In half an hour enough chill is removed that the engine will start easily. I usually leave it for an hour if I have time, though. That's enough that some heat conducts back to the cabin and it's a little more toasty when I hop in to start up.

And then I fly it for a *minimum* of half an hour after everything is warmed up.

I also have an electric patch heater on the bottom of my oil sump, but i've never used it... It came on the airplane. I may be overlooking a perfectly functional heating method, but I hear they take a long time to heat up. The space heater is (relatively) fast.
 
guccidude1 said:
Just for informational background, several years back I bought a certified heating unit for by C-182P and the seller would not sell the single heating pad. They said one heating pad created excessive moisture in the engine. Their unit had a pad on the bottom and one on the top of the engine case and heating elements on each of the 6 heads (Continental). Additionally, the seller said never leave the heater on continuously due to moisture accumulation on the interior of the engine. Botton line, if you turn on the heater, fly the engine to dry it out. Dan
Click to expand...

Not everyone agrees with that position.

http://thervjournal.com/cold.html
 
A 75 watt bulb

has worked two winters so far and the engine has not fallen apart due to rust yet. I turn on a 1500 watt heater for about 30 minutes while preflighting. I started at 25*F last week and my oil temp/cht/egt's all read 58-60*F. We don't take family trips in the winter unless we fly South to warmer temps or a short lunch run. We try to fly it every two weeks and bring oil temp to 180-190*F.
 
I installed an STC'd Reiff pad heater on the sump of the Continental O-470 on my Cessna 180. Following the good directions and using their tool, the installation was completely straight-forward and the heater works fine.

It's been on the plane now for 500 hours and I'm embarrassed to say how many years - there was a period when I wasn't flying much. But don't worry about the installation, it's something you can do.

The only interesting issue was how to deal with the extra length of power cord. I wound it around an engine mount tube and zip-tied it in place. Since it's passive there, it hasn't chafed and this seems to be a reasonable place to put it. It would have been more sophisticated and lighter to cut it off to the length I wanted and install a new plug on the end, but I didn't do that.

I rarely use the heater now for several reasons. Among them, I don't fly as much in the winter, and the hangar we have now doesn't get very cold. Also the multigrade oil I use year around gives me some more latitude that way.

Dave
 
go pre heat

I would have them install it. Many people live in an area that needs the pre-heat and if you ever decide to sell the plane it may help in the sale. I know I have bought 4 different types of airplanes and the preheat was a must. I have a guy in my hanger right now who is using a small heater and it is just another thing laying aroung the hanger floor when he is out flying.
 
Vote for stick on sump heater here

I keep it plugged in all the time when I'm not flying, I fly often. Oil is anywhere from 75-90 degrees depending on how cold it is outside. I run 100W Plus year round because of this. It works great for me.

Randy
8A
 
Like Bob L., I'm in the middle of installing the Reiff system. I read all about the cheaper options to save a couple of bucks and here's what I finally decided: The engine cost me $24,500. I bought new instead of used. It's the *only* part of the plane project for which I got a loan. It keeps the big thing in the front turning.

Why on earth would I make THIS part the place where I go cheap?

I ordered the full system.
 
engine heat

We've run two Lycomings past 2000 hours while using the Tanis heaters. The engines were corrosion-free at overhaul. The heaters were left on full time, so that the planes were always ready to fly. Aviation Consumer did testing a few years ago and found no evidence that leaving engine heaters on continuously leads to moisture/condensation in the engine. If the engine has been heated and the heaters are turned off I believe the engine cools and moisture will condense in it unless you are in a totally dry atmosphere. I'm installing the full Reiff system in the -8 and plan to leave it plugged in full time. Can anybody else chime in with real world experience?
 
Good Idea

I use the Rieff system along with a oil filled radiator type heater. I put the radiator type heater under the the front of the plane (cowl) then drape a sleeping bag over the top cowl then I use two moving blankets from harbor Freight, the seam of the two blankets are clipped together along the top of middle of the cowl. The sides of the blanket are clipped to close off the front. The blankets touch the floor, so now the only opening is the backside under the fuselage and I leave it this way. With the heater on medium the temps of the oil and CHT show 65-70 with hanger temp around 35-40. If I know I am going to fly the next day I turn on the Rieff sump heater when I go to bed via a cell phone switch sold here on VAF and when I get to the hanger the next day I see temps around 100-120 depending on how long things where on.

As an added benefit, I keep my heat box door open and heat migrates into the cabin and this keep the temp dew point spread so I am not getting moisture in the cabin, last time a checked I saw 50 degrees in the cabin with the hanger temp at 42.

I am only at 30 hours on the plane but in the NW (Olympia, WA) the air is so wet in winter I wanted the engine and cockpit to stay dry.

Another guy I know keeps a gold wand up the exhaust opening with other holes plugged, the puts a small ceramic heater in the exhaust opening when he gets to the hanger as he pre-flights and for the last bit he has a sump heater, in 30-40 minutes he has temps up to 70 which is where he is happy to start her up. I like the sump heater so when I am on the road which I hope to be fairly often, I can heat up the oil on a cold morning.
Cheers
 
Bill Dicus said:
We've run two Lycomings past 2000 hours while using the Tanis heaters. The engines were corrosion-free at overhaul. The heaters were left on full time, so that the planes were always ready to fly. Aviation Consumer did testing a few years ago and found no evidence that leaving engine heaters on continuously leads to moisture/condensation in the engine. If the engine has been heated and the heaters are turned off I believe the engine cools and moisture will condense in it unless you are in a totally dry atmosphere. I'm installing the full Reiff system in the -8 and plan to leave it plugged in full time. Can anybody else chime in with real world experience?
Click to expand...

Been heating 24/7 with a sump heater for the past twelve winters. More info here:

http://thervjournal.com/cold.html

A warm engine on Saturday morning is a beautiful thing! :)
 
A buddy of mine leaves the dip stick unscrewed and off center so that any moisture goes up and out. He does not heat his engine either. Oh, and he flies a Glassair.... did I say he is a buddy of mine?
 
With the idea that if the oil is warm, the entire engine will be warm I installed a NASCAR transmision pre-heater.

250W%25203%2520inch%2520oil%2520heater.JPG


It 3 inches long and is only 250 watts, which whill not boil the oild.

This is a 110V oil heater and I added a plug from a small box heater and ran the plug up to the oil filler door.

You can order it from: http://www.cvproducts.com / 1-800-448-1223

Part number:
ELX-PH-2503 Probe Heater - 250W 3in Long
Cost: $49.86

Note, these do not come with a provision for a safety wire, so you need to drill a small hole prior to installation.
 
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I opted for the full Reiff system. I LOVE the conveinience of just plugging it in a couple hours before flying. I too was worried about traveling to cold locations so the light bulb or hair dryer idea never appealed to me. I have a trip planned to land on a frozen lake and staying over night. All I need is an extension cord and I'm good to go.

For the record, the system was pretty easy to retrofit. In fact it is the exact same process to install with the engine mounted or not so don't let that idea influence your decision.
 
Airzen said:
As I get ready to order my engine from Aero Sport, I need to decide if I should go with pre-installed engine heating system (Reiff). I am hoping those who have gone before me can provide some guidance.

Here are some of the factors that I think would influence the decision.

1) I am in Seattle area where winter temperatures are not too severe (in thirties mostly). However, one consideration is that I'd hate to get stranded in colder part of the country. I hoping to to do at least one cross-country in winters

2) Weight: It seems that the Reiff system is not to heavy (2 lbs I think), but still more moving parts, more wires under the cowl and thus more complexity. I do want a sporty plane so I need to think twice about adding something that I might use only a few times a year.

3) Cost: The oil sump heater is 275$ and the full pre-heat system is 525$. So the amount is non-trivial.

4) Installation: Since Aero Sport will install it for me, I am assuming the resulting installation will be reliable (and perhaps better than a retro-fit if I decided to get it later).

So I'd like to seek some advice from folks: What would you folks advice given the things I have mentioned above?

Thanks in advance,
Ashish
Click to expand...


Weight is 0.4 lb for the sump heater system, and 1 to 1.1 lbs for the multi-point systems (oil + cyl heaters).

The systems are just wire and heating elements. No "moving parts", except the thermostat which never moves in normal operation, only if it senses an overheat situation.

Cost is $189 for the sump heater system, and multi-point systems are $435, 535, or 635 depending on wattage. Aero Sport's figures may include an extra charge for installation, I don't know.

Above data is for 4 cylinder systems.
 
868RM said:
On my Maule I have the full Reiff system but no thermostat and it heats things up in about one hour with a moving blanket on top of the cowl.I have flown in temps below zero. When choosing the heating equipment for my RV 8 I went with Reiff dual oil sump pads with thermostat. With 20 degree temps in 2 hours I am showing 85 degree oil temp at start up.With a moving blanket on top of cowl the entire engine is warm to touch and it fires right up. I am very pleased with the dual pads and thermostat and would recommend that set up. I need to look into the cell phone switch. Thanks Ron
Click to expand...

If you can, plug it in for 10-12 hrs as that gives the max heat rise. Two hrs gives about half the max rise.

We will soon offer a similar cell switch for about half what others sell them for. Maybe less if purchased with a preheat system. I've been testing a prototype and it works very well, for $3 a month T-Mobile service cost. It makes a preheat system much more convenient to use.
 
Rupester said:
...that I ordered from Aerosport with my engine. Here in the midwest, I would not be without it. This winter has made it clear it was worth every penny I paid and then some.
As others said, coupled with the cell-phone-activated switch, it's unbeatable in the winter. The Reiff system warms the oil temp ~ 10F per hour and the cyl heads a little less than that. On a recent 12F morning, my oil was 76F and the CHTs 58-60F ...makes for instant starts .

Given what the engine costs, another $525 for winter piece of mind is about a 2% increase in price. Easy decision for me. :)
Click to expand...

You don't say which system you have or how long you run it, but the standard wattage (50w per cyl + 100w on the oil) should be heating the entire engine about 80F above ambient in 12 hrs, in a hangar with the cowling sealed and insulated with a blanket. I recommend you turn the cell switch on 12 hrs before flight if possible, because that allows the heat to soak through the entire engine. Short preheat times like an hour or two only heat the cylinders and the oil because that's where the heating elements are, but don't allow enough time for the heat to conduct to the rest of the engine.
 
guccidude1 said:
I have a single "unregulated car engine" 6" x 6" heating pad glued to the bottom of the O-360 oil sump with red RTV. I also have a cell phone activated timer attached. It takes 3 hours to bring the oi from 20F to 70F. Just for informational background, several years back I bought a certified heating unit for by C-182P and the seller would not sell the single heating pad. They said one heating pad created excessive moisture in the engine. Their unit had a pad on the bottom and one on the top of the engine case and heating elements on each of the 6 heads (Continental). Additionally, the seller said never leave the heater on continuously due to moisture accumulation on the interior of the engine. Botton line, if you turn on the heater, fly the engine to dry it out. Dan
Click to expand...

Their business model has always been to sell only the multipoint system, and take the position that you should use that or nothing.

I think for folks in milder winter climates a sump heater may be all they need.

Besides, even if they are right that the oil sump heater creates moisture, what's wrong with that IF you just use it to preheat prior to starting? Is a few hours of "creating moisture" going to hurt anything? Seems to me the benefits of the preheat far outweigh the concern about moisture, which if there is any will quickly dissipate on starting the engine.
 
After a lot of research and playing around with other options like light bulbs, here is what I put on my engine

Proheat Heavy Duty Fluid Reservoir Heater Model 512csa (250 Watts, 2.1 Amp, 120 Volts). I bought mine on amazon, but it is available other places.

It works great and was only $65.

2-hours and it is all warmed up. But here in Houston I rarely use it.
 
Bill Dicus said:
We've run two Lycomings past 2000 hours while using the Tanis heaters. The engines were corrosion-free at overhaul. The heaters were left on full time, so that the planes were always ready to fly. Aviation Consumer did testing a few years ago and found no evidence that leaving engine heaters on continuously leads to moisture/condensation in the engine. If the engine has been heated and the heaters are turned off I believe the engine cools and moisture will condense in it unless you are in a totally dry atmosphere. I'm installing the full Reiff system in the -8 and plan to leave it plugged in full time. Can anybody else chime in with real world experience?
Click to expand...

Go here and read the excellent article by Ken Sutton at the bottom. He did a lot of data collection of temp, humidity, etc.

www.reiffpreheat.com/Articles.htm
 
Michael Henning said:
A buddy of mine leaves the dip stick unscrewed and off center so that any moisture goes up and out. He does not heat his engine either. Oh, and he flies a Glassair.... did I say he is a buddy of mine?
Click to expand...

I do that after every flight, even in summer. I think it helps to ventilate the crankcase of any moisture that is in there.
 
N941WR said:
With the idea that if the oil is warm, the entire engine will be warm I installed a NASCAR transmision pre-heater.

250W%25203%2520inch%2520oil%2520heater.JPG


It 3 inches long and is only 250 watts, which whill not boil the oild.

This is a 110V oil heater and I added a plug from a small box heater and ran the plug up to the oil filler door.

You can order it from: http://www.cvproducts.com / 1-800-448-1223

Part number:
ELX-PH-2503 Probe Heater - 250W 3in Long
Cost: $49.86

Note, these do not come with a provision for a safety wire, so you need to drill a small hole prior to installation.
Click to expand...

Just curious how you determined that it will not boil the oil.

We need to consider not just the wattage relative to the oil volume (250w isn't too much), but also the wattage relative to the surface area of the heating element (probably is too much).

I could not find the item on the site, but using estimated dimensions of 3" long x 0.5" dia, the watt density would be about 50 watts per square inch of heater surface area. That's pretty high, 3 to 5 times what our's run. This means that when you immerse the heater in the oil, the oil in contact with the heater could be exceeding 300F. That's the temp at which oil scorches, and you can get burned oil sticking to the heater. If chunks of burned oil come off the heater it can float around in the engine, possibly plugging oil passages, etc. This is why I don't like immersion type heaters, and why Lycoming says not to use dipstick type heaters.

If you want to use this heater I suggest that you run a test. Immerse the heater in a pan of oil, plug it in for an extended time, and see how it does.
 
Just wanted to comment further on the issue of heating time.

I see a lot of comments indicating folks are plugging in their preheaters (whatever type or brand) for 2 hours, 1 hour, even 30 minutes, and considering that to be a good preheat.

While it is better than nothing, I advocate plugging in for 10-12 hours whenever possible, to allow the heat to conduct throughout the entire engine and raise it as close to operating temp as possible. The closer the engine is to operating temperature when you start it, the happier it is.

The quote below is taken from the Ken Sutton article on our web site...
www.reiffpreheat.com/Article-Sutton.pdf

I had a discussion with
Harold Tucker, Director of
Lubricants Technical Services
at ConocoPhillips, which led
me to pursue a more automated
way to control the Reiff
preheat system I installed on
my C310 several years ago.
Prior to this discussion, I
had only been preheating my
engines when the ambient
temperature was below 40°F.
Mr. Tucker suggested that all
engine starts below 60°F should
be considered cold starts,
and each of those starts was
shaving useful life from my
engines. He suggested that the
closer I could get to normal
operating temperature prior to
every start, the greater longevity I would
enjoy from my engines.​

This table shows the benefit of allowing 12 hrs of heating time rather than only 1 or 2...
www.reiffpreheat.com/product.htm#Heating time

As you can see, the temp rise in 1 or 2 hours isn't much compared to 12 hours. No matter what heater you use, the temp rise vs time relationship will be similar. However, the amount of temp rise will depend on the wattage.
 
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temp

Bob, With two pads on sump, o-360 and oil level at 7 qts, 2 hrs. with a 40 degree hanger G3X showed 88 degree oil at start up last week. Cowl was covered with heavy blanket. I have had these results a couple of times this year. I hope this info helps - the heat system works great. Ron
 
868RM said:
Bob, With two pads on sump, o-360 and oil level at 7 qts, 2 hrs. with a 40 degree hanger G3X showed 88 degree oil at start up last week. Cowl was covered with heavy blanket. I have had these results a couple of times this year. I hope this info helps - the heat system works great. Ron
Click to expand...

Oil temp isn't as important as the temp of the crankshaft journals and bearings. The steel crank and aluminum case don't expand/contract at the same rate and if the engine is cold the bearing clearances can get tight. That is where damage can occur when starting a cold engine.

It takes several hours to get the cold-soaked crankshaft up to temp.

Personally, I plug in the sump heater as soon as the plane is pulled back into the hangar following a flight and it runs 24/7 until the breakfast run the next Saturday. The engine never cools down, it thinks it is in Florida all winter......

I realize not everyone buys into this method of engine heating, but so far, after a dozen years of heating 24/7 December through March, no signs of corrosion. I run Aeroshell W100 year round.
 
Didn't have the opportunity to leave things plugged in overnight (hangar owner has a thing about electricity usage) but took a trip out to the airport yesterday morning to plug it in around 9 or so. Temperature was -1.

Rolled it out at 3 pm (outside temp -12C) and oil temp was at 75. Not as warm as I would like but if it's the difference between flying and not flying, I went with flying.
 
crank temp

Sam, The crankcase will warm quicker than the crank as it is in contact with the oil. The difference in dia. at .000006 in. per degree per in. of dia. is not going to seize or score a bearing as the crank is going to be smaller. Lack of oil flow (hence no film from no pressure) because it won't flow thru the pump screen will cause a lot more problems. Many of these and other engines have been started with old straight wt. oil for a long time. I think 80 + oil in a 50+ degree case will not cause problems. I don't live in real cold climate but have started a lot of engines in sub zero temps with no problems. Ron
 
Our family has just had 2 negative experiences with combustion heaters.
One overheated the fiberglass cowl (on the RV-4) enough to discolor the paint, but was noticed prior to any damage, the other was a home made tent (over the cowl cheek of the T-18) and part of the cardboard wall was windblown toward the heater. It was also noticed right away. Combustion heat must be monitored 100% of the time.
If using a camp stove @ Mile High, you would be watching anyway, and that's probably the only available heat source.
But we are reviewing safer heat.
Here in the Great Northwet, winters are fairly mild. We are weight fanatics, so don't want to have a built in system. Right now, Muli-Vis oil in the engine and fan blown electric pre-heat seems to be the way we are going. (tip of the hat to Rob Prior)
 
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868RM said:
Sam, The crankcase will warm quicker than the crank as it is in contact with the oil. The difference in dia. at .000006 in. per degree per in. of dia. is not going to seize or score a bearing as the crank is going to be smaller. Lack of oil flow (hence no film from no pressure) because it won't flow thru the pump screen will cause a lot more problems. Many of these and other engines have been started with old straight wt. oil for a long time. I think 80 + oil in a 50+ degree case will not cause problems. I don't live in real cold climate but have started a lot of engines in sub zero temps with no problems. Ron
Click to expand...

Ron, you might be interested in this article by Mike Busch:

The Whys and Hows of Preheat
 
Article

Sam, I agree with some of what Mike says--- However for the first item of brg. clearance. If Mike is correct one would not need to worry about starting the engine. A negative .0002 clearance would be clamped solid. Like really solid. I will agree that cold starts are not a good thing but not quite as bad Mike wants us to believe as he puts some nice plugs in for the heater suppliers. I think cold conditions require a complete warm up before load is applied but some of the generator power units go from cold to full load in seconds, some with no heat, some with oil heat, some with full heat. Do we have any real cold weather fliers on here that have damaged engines that could add a little input. I am interested. Ron
 
Preheat

We operated our Commanche B for thousands of hours with no preheat, based in Milwaukee Wisconsin. We tried a propane heater for awhile but it required continual monitoring and didn't seem to heat the engine much even after 45 minutes. We started that IO-540 (parallel valve, 260 HP) many times with no preheat and ambient temps below zero. At overhaul with over 2000 hours there was considerable wear of the main and cam bearings, but they were still serviceable and the rest of the engine was in excellent condition. After that first overhaul we installed Tanis heaters and left them on 24/7. Second o'haul at 2200 hours (after the first one) showed minimal wear and no corrosion. A 1976 Lance overhauled at 1600 hours for a seized exhaust valve showed no corrosion and minimal wear. It too had 24/7 heating with a Tanis. Relationship to the valve is unknown. As long as I'm able we'll continue the 24/7 heating on our Lance and on the -8 when done. One other data point - IO-360 200 HP on a Pitts S-2A overhauled for cracks in the crankshaft flange at 1220 hours showed no corrosion and minimal wear despite most time being spent doing aerobatics. This engine also had 24/7 heating with the Tanis units. Just anecdotal I know but I can't identify objective evidence against using full time heat with these systems. I like them also because starting is easier and the first 10-15 of operation seems more normal, much like summer ops.
 
Here in Norway the "best winter practice" is:
Cold hangar, battery charger and pre-heating of the engine. Exactly how the engine is pre-heated doesn't really matter? as long as it is warm when it is started. An electrical pre-heater is definitely the most practical, and it can be combined with a heater in the cockpit.

I have never heard of any accidents that are caused by lack of pre-heating. I have always thought it only causes more wear.
 
868RM said:
On my Maule I have the full Reiff system but no thermostat and it heats things up in about one hour with a moving blanket on top of the cowl.I have flown in temps below zero. When choosing the heating equipment for my RV 8 I went with Reiff dual oil sump pads with thermostat. With 20 degree temps in 2 hours I am showing 85 degree oil temp at start up.With a moving blanket on top of cowl the entire engine is warm to touch and it fires right up. I am very pleased with the dual pads and thermostat and would recommend that set up. I need to look into the cell phone switch. Thanks Ron
Click to expand...


Reiff Preheat Systems said:
If you can, plug it in for 10-12 hrs as that gives the max heat rise. Two hrs gives about half the max rise.

We will soon offer a similar cell switch for about half what others sell them for. Maybe less if purchased with a preheat system. I've been testing a prototype and it works very well, for $3 a month T-Mobile service cost. It makes a preheat system much more convenient to use.
Click to expand...

Ron, we are now offering a cellular remote control switch. It's ready to use, no wiring or assembly required except for installing your SIM card. We are selling it only to our preheat customers, at our cost ($89).
 
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I recently pulled two ECI Titan cylinders with 300 hours on them for an unrelated problem on 55BC but I was startled to find significant pitting on the cylinder walls directly under the Reiff cylinder band heaters. I think the Reiff cylinder band heaters are excellent however I am now never going to leave it plugged in for any extended time period.
 
Personal opinion

Reiff is overkill for temperate climates at least.. We don't very often below freezing here in Western Oregon (Vans country) but I simply bought 2*45W stick on sump heaters for the ears of my forward facing sump.

With colw plugs this is enough to raise the oil temp 30F and the whole ingine gets warms even around freezing... They were pretty cheap too and I've had them since 2006 running pretty much all the time.

Frank
 
Reiff Preheat Systems said:
Ron, we are now offering a cellular remote control switch. It's ready to use, no wiring or assembly required except for installing your SIM card. We are selling it only to our preheat customers, at our cost ($89).
Click to expand...

Can previous customers of your Reiff preheat systems get this deal? I've got two of them installed now, one on the 172 and another on my 9A.
 
I bought a 1500W ceramic heater from Home Depot + some ducting and used pop rivets & screws to mate it all together. $40 total.

On the high setting, this heater soaks everything under the cowl nicely. Oil temps are 100F+ and cyl head temps are 120-130F.

The heater is on 24/7 and is put on right after shutting down the engine. The airplane is in a unheated hangar less than a mile from the Pacific Ocean, and it has really cut down on the external corrosion. The air often gets really wet here and this heater keeps the dew point spread large to keep any moisture from condensing inside the cowl. It's so hot you can't leave your hand on a cyl for more than a few seconds.

As for the internals, there have been a couple good articles already posted in the thread regarding the validity of keeping the entire engine (not just the oil) warm to combat internal moisture and corrosion. I'm happy with the results I'm seeing.

Here is the heater with ducting bent up and riveted:


Just put the outlet in the lower cowl opening and point it towards the sump.


Oil temp is ~110F


Cyl head temp. Don't pay any attention to the labels, they are just for fun.
 
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