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Do you Pump Your Brakes Before Landing?

Do You Check/Pump Brakes Before Landing

  • Yes

    Votes: 61 33.9%

  • No

    Votes: 92 51.1%

  • Sometimes, but not a habit

    Votes: 27 15.0%
  • Total voters
    180
Toobuilder

Toobuilder

Well Known Member
Simple procedure question - I had it drilled into my head early on in my tailwheel flying to ensure the brakes are pumped up just before touchdown. If they are soft, I can either try fix it or at least plan for a "no brake landing".

The habit of pumping the brakes on short final has saved my bacon more than once... Just wondering how widespread it is.
 
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I was taught to do it on a retractable after extending the gear due to all the lines and fittings moving around. I still do it on the RV someimes.
 
I seldom use the breaks unless I am told to take a specific ramp and need to break to make it otherwise I use them to some extend to make turns.
 
I check 'em.

A brake check before landing is a good idea in any airplane, and part of the checklist at some point after gear extension in many.

In the C-23 it was part of the approach checks. After gear extension we checked for brake pressure AND that the pressure returned to zero when the brakes were released.

I did my RV training with Mike Seager, and as Mike S. mentioned he teaches a brake check before landing as well.

Doug
 
But not with Ice or snow

Ordinarily a good practice. However with snow or wet runways in freezing air temps on take off(and a landing to follow) I don't touch them on taxi, take off or landing to prevent locked discs.
 
Whether you use them or not, it's nice to know they are available...

I have returned from a long cross country to find a brake soft on short final. Better to address the issue in the air rather than on the ground in the heat of the moment. Also agree that the RV line is pretty benign on the ground, but not all airplanes are so well behaved. This habit carries over from one of my less well mannered airplanes.
 
Yes.

I tap them after takeoff and during my landing checks. I don't use my brakes either but don't want to find out there not working when I need them.
 
A few years ago I was on a short Xcountry in my biplane. As I was flying along I noticed my brakes were stiff. I thought my parking brakes were on. When I pulled on the control it came out of the panel, the cable was broken and my brakes were locked! My first thought was that I was going over on my back when I land, not good. I looked under the panel with my flashlight (did I mention the sun was going down) and saw the parking brake lever hanging down. I took off my shoe and wiggled around until I could reach the lever with my toes and disengaged the parking brakes to my great relief. Ever since then I have had no trouble remembering to check my brakes.

Brian
 
AX-O said:
Yes.

I tap them after takeoff and during my landing checks. I don't use my brakes either but don't want to find out there not working when I need them.
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I was once told not to do this shortly after takeoff because a free spinning wheel will stop quickly and could shear the steam off the tube. Any thoughts on this?

As for a pre-landing brake check, this is the first time I have ever heard of doing it.
 
N941WR said:
I was once told not to do this shortly after takeoff because a free spinning wheel will stop quickly and could shear the steam off the tube. Any thoughts on this?
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I almost always stop the tires with a tap after take-off Bill - done it all my life, and never had a problem. If you have a tire out of balance, it stops the annoying vibration. Call that anecdotal evidence if you want.
 
News to me (i.e., I was never taught this procedure), but seems a reasonable idea. Learn something new every day (I hope).

Greg
 
The "U" in flying.

Have checked the brakes sense day 1, 36 years ago. Pre-Landing mnemonic, BGUMPS, the "U" is for under carriage, in the RV's, gear down and welded and check brake pressure. I wouldn't say I pump the brakes, I merely check for normal travel and firmness.

RT
 
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Nope, I know they worked when I departed, no reason they shouldn't still work when I land :D
 
The tap after takeoff is helpful as Paul noted in reducing the spin down shake of a not so well balanced tire. In large aircraft this is often automatically done as part of the gear retract cycle to ensure the tire is not spinning, and possibly be too large due to centrifugal force, in the wheel well. The catch is it isn't an instant stop. It applies just a little brake to slowly bring the tire to a stop. I seriously doubt there is enough inertia in the small RV tires to come unstuck from the bead and shear the stem off the tube.

The brake check before landing sees both points of view. There are some large aircraft manufacturers that do it, others don't. One that I know of used to do it but about 15 years ago changed the procedure to not do it. Their theory was what happens when you test it and it sticks "on". I agree with the poster who said to not do it during very cold wet weather for the same reason. What happens when you freeze the pads to the disc. The landing shock might break it loose, but it might not.

This is one of those things where each person needs to decide in their own mind which course of action is better. Do you want to know in advance that you do or don't have brakes or do you want to run the risk of taking a perfectly good braking system and somehow disabling it. Long odds on either happening and it's up to you to choose.
 
If the brake system worked for taxi and take off, what could cause it to fail during a flight?

In this simple airplane the brake system in flight is at rest like a wrench or screw driver, it just is there with no function or work load. Hydraulic lines do not break under zero pressure.

Check it if you wish, perhaps a line won't break doing that pressure check. But it could after landing anyhow.

I am more concerned about an in flight engine failure than an in flight brake failure and prefer to keep the operation as simple as possible. It has not been on my check list.
 
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N941WR said:
I was once told not to do this shortly after takeoff because a free spinning wheel will stop quickly and could shear the steam off the tube. Any thoughts on this?

As for a pre-landing brake check, this is the first time I have ever heard of doing it.
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That was one of the things my dad taught me prior to retracting a landing gear. That way the tire would not rub on anything. Now i do it because i dont want the tire rotating/vibrating. I dont do it when we do formation take offs.

Never had a problem with a steam. That does not mean it cant happen.
 
No. I've never heard of this either.
BTW, What are going to do about it anyway? :eek:

I do know they worked when I did my run up before take off.
 
I see little harm in doing an in-flight brake check, unless you press REALLY hard and blow something out.

That said, I am actually with the camp that says "if they worked when I took off, they will work (or not) when I land. Look at it this way - they COULD fail at any time (low probability however). That means that any time you apply them, it could be the last time. Since they worked at take-off, they might or might not fail when you do the test. If they work when you test them, they might or might not work when you land. This is what we used to refer to as a "light bulb check". Just because it came on last time doesn't mean it will come on the next. It doesn't actually "prove" anything.

Now, if I felt something funny on take-off, or when I stopped the tires on climbout - then I would investigate. If a bird hit my gear in flight - I'd give them a check. But we have pretty simple brakes. My "old bird" had four-channel brake commanding with three hydraulic systems - our biggest fear was a stuck-on brake, so we NEVER applied pressure before touchdown in case we got a stuck on "something."

Best to plan your landings as if the brakes might fail - you DO have a plan, right?

Question - Has anyone that checks their brakes before landing ever found that they had gone away since take-off (in a simple, RV-like system)? Not saying it can't happen - just wondering if we have any actual experience with the failure.

Again - little harm in doing it - sort of like Mel's gear switch in his RV-6 - it does not harm to move it to the "up" position after take-off, and to the "down" position before landing - just to keep in practice for flying other machines where it might be important! ;)
 
Ironflight said:
...Question - Has anyone that checks their brakes before landing ever found that they had gone away since take-off (in a simple, RV-like system)? Not saying it can't happen - just wondering if we have any actual experience with the failure...
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Yes, I have.

A warped disc on takeoff will push the piston back into the caliper and cause that first application to be "soft", which is a problem when it's only on one side. I chased this problem for quite a while before I figured it out. My work around was to pump the brakes up to firm before landing. It then became a habit and a source of comfort to "know" I had brakes. Again, this was an airplane that was not as well behaved as an RV, but it stuck. I've also flown several airplanes with simply weak brake systems, and like an old car, you just learn to adapt and overcome if you are going to fly.

I equate this to using the boost pump on landing... It's not needed unless you have a failure of the main pump, but we do it anyway, just in case.
 
Toobuilder said:
Yes, I have.

A warped disc on takeoff will push the piston back into the caliper and cause that first application to be "soft", which is a problem when it's only on one side. I chased this problem for quite a while before I figured it out. My work around was to pump the brakes up to firm before landing. It then became a habit and a source of comfort to "know" I had brakes. Again, this was an airplane that was not as well behaved as an RV, but it stuck. I've also flown several airplanes with simply weak brake systems, and like an old car, you just learn to adapt and overcome if you are going to fly.

I equate this to using the boost pump on landing... It's not needed unless you have a failure of the main pump, but we do it anyway, just in case.
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Ok - fair enough Mike. But you weren't really "testing" the brakes, you were using a procedure to make them work (something that you knew you had to do to make them work - not checking to see if you had them). There is a difference there.

And yes, I'll admit that there are things I do in airplanes just because they make me feel better, and "can't hurt". We all have little things like that.
 
Why would a valve stem shear from braking when they don't shear on landing spin-up? Why wouldn't you check your brakes? Its almost like not checking gear lights.
 
I do it during the landing checklist?as another poster said, for me its the "U" in GUMPP, in a fixed gear airplane. (Three green and brakes in a retract).

Just a pressure check, not really pumping the brakes. Its just for SA?I also try to minimize brake usage, but if the need to use them aggressively comes up, it'd be nice to know if one or both were inop before the brakes are applied. One bad brake in an aggressive braking event might be a worse scenario, especially in a TW airplane.

Haven't had a brake fail in flight, but I have had a brake line fitting blow out (during a prop dynamic balance?very exciting, especially for the prop guy! You'd be amazed how fast your throttle hand can move aft!). That's why I don't mash the brakes on the check?or on the ground (unless required).

So its one of those "low likelihood" but potentially "high consequence" failure modes?so a quick check is cheap insurance, IMHO.

And besides, the U needs sump'in to stand for, doesn't it? ;)

That was a neat story about the biplane Brian!

Cheers,
Bob
 
It was a "tail dragger" thing...

When I bought my biplane, a tail dragger, my instructor taught me to "always check the brakes before landing." The reason was that you sometimes need the brakes to effect a landing especially while transiting the no rudder effectiveness regime.
That came in handy a few years ago when I was downwind in my Steen Skybolt. During the obligatory pump I found that the right brake had leaked down. Naturally there was a stiff crosswind component and our runway here at KCOI is bordered each side with a ditch. I had to land with a tailwind component to counter the failed brake and as slow as I dared with the zero forward viz Skybolt. The big rudder on the Bolt helped and I drove it off the end of the runway into the grass.

Don
 
Ironflight said:
Ok - fair enough Mike. But you weren't really "testing" the brakes, you were using a procedure to make them work (something that you knew you had to do to make them work - not checking to see if you had them). There is a difference there...
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This warped rotor thing was random. Sometimes the brakes would be firm, sometimes not.

Step #1 was "checking".

Step #2 was "making them work" if they failed the check.

I've never had them go away completely, but I have certainly found them to be so discrepant that they would have been trouble on the ground. I do know of several people who have "lost a brake" on rollout and gone off the runway as a result. They didn't check for pressure on short final either, so we'll never know if the brake went away in flight or at first application.

One thing is for sure, it is better to know sooner than later that you have a brake issue.
 
Interesting comments to a (seemingly) simple question. I saw this on Mike Seagers check list, but he did not emphasize it. I suppose once would be good, on a first flight, if the brakes had just been bleed (poorly) and air in there expanded to push fluid back in the reservoir. It would not happen every flight though.

People usually do things for a reason then forgot all the details of why. Then the reason disappears and the"rule" remains.

Maybe we should discuss FMEA for this system.
 
As pilots we are defined by our experience. When first starting out, that "experience" is served up to us by our instructors (good or bad). As we continue on our own, we adapt our behavior to address our individual experience. Few people have gone through a brake problem after a flight, but those of us that have... well, let's just say it sticks with you. Many pilots don't give the brakes a second thought, which is logical... until it bites you. Once you go for a brake and it's not there, I'll bet the "short final brake check" gets folded into your process instantly.

Not trying to be alarmist with this thread, merely like to urge you all to consider the pros and cons of integrating this little check into your process.
 
APACHE 56 said:
When I bought my biplane, a tail dragger, my instructor taught me to "always check the brakes before landing." The reason was that you sometimes need the brakes to effect a landing especially while transiting the no rudder effectiveness regime...

Don
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This is the reason why I like to check the brakes prior to landing.
 
brakes

No....never have. Hardly ever use the brakes except to taxi in tight spots. I usually always land on grass though.
 
A young CFI friend who helped with my last biennial liked to include "belts & brakes" as part of the landing checklist, so I started doing a cursory touch of the brakes and the belts.

I think I'll continue to touch the brakes and after my last landing, I'll also start to do a hefty tug and tightening especially on the lap belt.
 
Toobuilder said:
As pilots we are defined by our experience. When first starting out, that "experience" is served up to us by our instructors (good or bad). As we continue on our own, we adapt our behavior to address our individual experience. Few people have gone through a brake problem after a flight, but those of us that have... well, let's just say it sticks with you. Many pilots don't give the brakes a second thought, which is logical... until it bites you. Once you go for a brake and it's not there, I'll bet the "short final brake check" gets folded into your process instantly.

Not trying to be alarmist with this thread, merely like to urge you all to consider the pros and cons of integrating this little check into your process.
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It's not alarmist at all! If you are going to fly conventional gear airplanes, you should already know that brakes are almost as critical as flight controls in the transition from touchdown to slowed for the turn of the runway.
 
I test them before startup and again just before taxi, but not before landing because I don't touch them on rollout.
 
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Toobuilder said:
As pilots we are defined by our experience. When first starting out, that "experience" is served up to us by our instructors (good or bad). As we continue on our own, we adapt our behavior to address our individual experience. Few people have gone through a brake problem after a flight, but those of us that have... well, let's just say it sticks with you. Many pilots don't give the brakes a second thought, which is logical... until it bites you. Once you go for a brake and it's not there, I'll bet the "short final brake check" gets folded into your process instantly.

Not trying to be alarmist with this thread, merely like to urge you all to consider the pros and cons of integrating this little check into your process.
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Valid observations Mike. You know the brakes did not fail since take off.

But the reality is if a failure is in the making, it will occur after landing when the system is subjected to high pressure. The check before landing can not be a reason to land long and hot, best to fly every approach on speed, in the slot and avoiding the need to use breaks as much as possible.

I will use your proceedure if remembered but I won't clutter my check lost with it. :)

Merry Christmas to all in this Great RV community.
 
David-aviator said:
...The check before landing can not be a reason to land long and hot, best to fly every approach on speed, in the slot and avoiding the need to use breaks as much as possible...
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Absolutely agree. The tap on the brakes is just an assurance that things are normal - just like seeing "three greens" on a retractable.
 
Toobuilder said:
Absolutely agree. The tap on the brakes is just an assurance that things are normal - just like seeing "three greens" on a retractable.
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Checking the brakes adds a fraction of a second to the process of making sure your feet are where they're supposed to be and you have free movement of the pedals. Which I do, and is actually more important than a brake check.

With the criticality of brakes at landing, assuming nothing happened during flight is not enough of a driver to pass up the opportunity to check. I also check free and correct flight controls three times before takeoff (start up, run up, entering the runway - overkill, but I can still forget twice and get it done).

And yes, I am speaking about brakes and rudder pedals from a conventional landing gear perspective. The difference in criticality is huge.
 
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Just a guess, but I'd think that the majority of the people who check their brakes before landing fly taildraggers and the pilots who don't fly nose-wheel aircraft.

Dave
 
If you don't you should. Wouldn't it be nice to find out there is a problem with your brakes before you need them. I've had water get in the brakes and freeze, So remember Sh#$ happens and it best to figure it out sooner than later.
 
Brakes

I'm probably in the minority here.
I was taught from day 1 to apply pedal in pre-start checklist & the again after starting to taxi. An anomalies should be checked on the ground...duh.
I agree with Walt, if they worked up to last T.O. then I'm OK with that.
 
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