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F-1 or HRII Transition Training

Eddie P

Well Known Member
I know the F1 is not an HRII and vice versa.

However where do guys go to get their F1 or HRII transition training? I'm a previous RV-4 guy but tailwheel time is on the low side and several years back even among current RV guys to spite my 17,000+ total time in jets and turboprops. Will insurance companies take an RV-8 checkout combined with some other Rocket instruction in the pilot's aircraft as good enough to qualify? Thank you all.
 
I never had any transition training in a Rocket and my insurance company didn't require any before writing my policy. I had a bunch of RV -8 and tons of tailwheel time however.
 
Interesting, great to hear. I assume the insurance cost will vary. Thanks for the intel, all the write ups on this I found were about 10 years back so perhaps not a lot has changed on the ability for RV time to suffice for HR/F1 experience.
 
I know the F1 is not an HRII and vice versa.

However where do guys go to get their F1 or HRII transition training? I'm a previous RV-4 guy but tailwheel time is on the low side and several years back even among current RV guys to spite my 17,000+ total time in jets and turboprops. Will insurance companies take an RV-8 checkout combined with some other Rocket instruction in the pilot's aircraft as good enough to qualify? Thank you all.

Find a 7 that somebody or some CFI will let you fly in the right seat. Then your stick is in the right hand. Power and prop controls in the left. Should get you familiar as needed .
 
All above are good suggestions. I would place the tail wheel current pilot in the back, myself in the front. I have a throttle in the back but no rudder pedals or brakes. We would do circuits until the flare and touchdown were comfortable. If you can land a rocket from the back seat the front should be a piece of cake. I would then take the back seat the new guy in the front. With the throttle in the back, if the landing and flare was not perfect, I would take control and go around.
All of this is prefaced on the new rocket pilot having a decent amount of tail wheel time and also some RV time. I find that the RV6 is closer to a rocket sink rate then a RV7, due to the shorter wing. In fact a two person RV6 sink rate is really close to a solo rocket sink rate.
 
I seem to often be the odd man out in these kinds of discussions, but I can't imagine someone with credible RV-4 time having any problem transitioning to an F1. Get a buddy to give you a fresh hour in his -4. A few landings and you'll be ready to go. F1's are sort of tigers in the air but pussycats on the ground. They jump off the ground very quickly with little or no tendency to "hunt". You might just let if "fly off" on it's own the first couple of times although they really do track dead straight with the tail up. You can't see over the nose while taxiing or on initial takeoff roll like you can in an RV-4 but once the tail is up, you're fully in charge.

Mine generally tracks quite straight after touchdown too and if not, is easily controlled if the wind is moving you around a bit. Try not to flare high (you have to spot the runway at 10 or 2 in the flare and the mains are a bit "springy") and then hold it off until it's done flying. If you do bounce it a bit, just keep correcting to a three point attitude until it settles down. You'll often get compliments on landings that seemed a bit "bouncy" in the cockpit, but which appeared well damped to those watching. It only takes the smallest amount of throttle to stop it from settling if you flare too high.

F1's respond quite readily to all control inputs during rollout and the brakes are typically quite effective too though on any reasonable runway length you won't need them very much.

For reference, I'm ex-military with not the most tail-dragger time in the world either, but I really don't think I'm steering you wrong. F1's are great flying airplanes with no bad habits that I've ever noticed.


Lee...
 
Bruce Bohannon

You might contact Bruce Bohannon near Houston. He has an 8 with full dual controls that he provides transition training in and also owns a 6 cylinder "HR-like? aircraft he refers to as the ?Flying Tiger.? I did transition training with him in the 8, and in my 6. He?s an outstanding teacher, with lots of relevant experience. Highly recommended.
 
I agree with Logan. I'll add my personal rule to his comments:

One little bounce is very typical with the springy gear. If the second bounce is getting worse instead of better, go around. The third bounce will likely just be even worse.

These aren't Cessnas and you can't "stick them" with force. They require some finesse. If you lack finesse, have good insurance... or better yet, get more training!

Of course, I might just be an awful pilot, but this technique keeps me comfortable and doesn't bend anything, including gear leg fairings, which, if kinked, are the first sign that your landing was less than optimal.

This rule is a good one for any other airplane too!!!

Vince




I seem to often be the odd man out in these kinds of discussions, but I can't imagine someone with credible RV-4 time having any problem transitioning to an F1. Get a buddy to give you a fresh hour in his -4. A few landings and you'll be ready to go. F1's are sort of tigers in the air but pussycats on the ground. They jump off the ground very quickly with little or no tendency to "hunt". You might just let if "fly off" on it's own the first couple of times although they really do track dead straight with the tail up. You can't see over the nose while taxiing or on initial takeoff roll like you can in an RV-4 but once the tail is up, you're fully in charge.

Mine generally tracks quite straight after touchdown too and if not, is easily controlled if the wind is moving you around a bit. Try not to flare high (you have to spot the runway at 10 or 2 in the flare and the mains are a bit "springy") and then hold it off until it's done flying. If you do bounce it a bit, just keep correcting to a three point attitude until it settles down. You'll often get compliments on landings that seemed a bit "bouncy" in the cockpit, but which appeared well damped to those watching. It only takes the smallest amount of throttle to stop it from settling if you flare too high.

F1's respond quite readily to all control inputs during rollout and the brakes are typically quite effective too though on any reasonable runway length you won't need them very much.

For reference, I'm ex-military with not the most tail-dragger time in the world either, but I really don't think I'm steering you wrong. F1's are great flying airplanes with no bad habits that I've ever noticed.


Lee...
 
Thats the one hard and fast rule about the Rocket variants that every new pilot needs to heed: If you get a bounce, go around. No exceptions.

Unlike Cessnas and even RV's, the second and subsequent bounces in a Rocket almost always get much worse. With experience one can sometimes save a bounce but it takes some hours to be able to evaluate the severity in situ. John Harmon advised me to just be hard wired to go around unless the landing was absolutely perfect, and that advice has served me well.
 
Same as above

If you are confident in your abilities to fly a 4 then the transition into the F1 shouldn?t be a problem. I actually believe my F1 lands better than my 4. Hope I didn?t just jinx myself!
 
Check your PM

Eddie P, check you PM. I see your location says Reno, and I might have a local solution for you.

Brian
 
Your mileage may vary...

I know the F1 is not an HRII and vice versa.

However where do guys go to get their F1 or HRII transition training? I'm a previous RV-4 guy but tailwheel time is on the low side and several years back even among current RV guys to spite my 17,000+ total time in jets and turboprops. Will insurance companies take an RV-8 checkout combined with some other Rocket instruction in the pilot's aircraft as good enough to qualify? Thank you all.

Eddie,
As mentioned above, your Four was a great warm up for the F-1 or HR2.
If you haven't flown a TD in awhile, ride along in a Luscombe, Champ or RV will help. The biggest difference you will notice in the Rocket is forward visibility in three point stance or specifically, the lack thereof. The Rocket requires S-Taxiing to maintain forward vis, especially on narrow taxiways where a Four(especially short gear) doesn't.
I tended to wheels land my HR2 on pavement for better visibility as the springy titanium gear seemed better suited to the weight distribution, increased forward visibility and rudder effectiveness in crosswinds. I planned a full stall three point on turf, especially the soft wet variety like my home drome. Better prop clearance, less chance of a tip over if soft and shorter stopping distance. I also installed 380X150X5 tires on my HR2 which helped immensely on all surfaces.
Insurance, a whole nuther animal.
The Rockets (HR2 or F-1) are considered by many aircraft insurance companies as a specific type and not group typed with the RV's. There is safety in numbers apparently due to the rates offered the RV's however the Rocket's small numbers (less than 150 flying) and number of taxi, landing accidents drives their rates higher. Shop around. I have over 5000 hours of TW time towing banners in my youth and 25 years of RV8-ing, over 20K total in everything from turboprops to the Viper. Doesn't matter, the Rocket costs more.

Congrats, it's a great airplane. I miss mine, but not the bills.

V/R
Smokey
 
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Great comments Smokey, appreciate them all. Are you sans HR2 / RV at the moment? I'm flying a Citabria for now to stay current in tailwheel ops. Pretty basic airplane to fly, yes. But that keeps me more tailwheel current than no tailwheel flying at all :) Still on the prowl for the right airframe.
 
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