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IFR training, practice flying, safety pilot

R

RFazio

Well Known Member
I asked this on the AOPA forum but figured I would post it here as well. I am training for my IFR rating. I currently have just my private SEL. Here is the question, my plane is an RV-6, a tail dragger. I have many friends that could fly with me as a safety pilot but most do not have their tail dragger rating. When flying under the hood for practice, in VFR conditions, does the safety pilot need the tail dragger endorsement in order to act as my safety pilot. The regulations state he must be a private pilot with category and class ratings appropriate for the aircraft being flown. To me that is category, normal and class single engine land.
 
Last time I looked at the regs, I came to the same conclusion. You can have a safety pilot that does not have a taildragger endorsment, same goes for high performance and complex.

Your safety pilot can not log PIC for the flight time though. (maybe SIC).

I've been a safety pilot in a high performance aircraft before I had those ratings. I didn't log PIC.
 
All they are looking for is Single Engine Land. He doesn't need the tail wheel endorsement unless you are letting him land or take off.
 
Fun with the FARs

We just discussed this this week at our EAA Chapter meeting, and it's been one of my favorite FAR 'trivia' questions over the years, as there are so many divergent opinions. I once flew as an instrument safety pilot in a complex aircraft (hi Bill!), but I had no complex endorsement. So I've wondered and discussed for years... was it legal?

The opinion presented the other night was that the safety pilot needs to hold the appropriate rating only, and an endorsement is not a rating, therefore the flight was legal.

This letter of interpretation from the FAA backs up that conclusion as of 1991: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...1991/rizner - (1991) legal interpretation.pdf

-jon
 
Endorsement

rleffler said:
All they are looking for is Single Engine Land. He doesn't need the tail wheel endorsement unless you are letting him land or take off.
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That is not correct. If the pilot in command is comfortable with letting the safety pilot take off and land, that is legal, whether or not the PIC has instructors certificate.
There are many case where part 135 company instructors do not have an instructors certificate. They are simply designated by the FAA as company instructors. While taildraggers are very rare in this environment there are still a few around. Twin Beech, DC3 etc. A part 135 company instructor with no instructors certificate can train and sign off a new company pilots training in a taildragger. In the case of the DC3 a type rating would be required for PIC but copilot is just training and a sign off.
 
I think it's all been said. Your safety pilot most hold a private, or higher, license, and it must have Airplane, single engine land printed on it. As a required crew member he must hold a valid medical.
The requirements of a tailwheel endorsement, 3 landings in the last 90 days, flight review, etc., only apply if he is also going to act as PIC - the person legally responsible for, and the final authority for, the operation of the aircraft. Since it is your airplane it is highly unlikely that you would delegate that to anyone else.
 
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Silly question...

just wondering. Is there a legal requirement to have a safety pilot? I assume the discussion pertains to a view-limiting device while practicing IFR procedures. Common sense says you don't don foggles or a hood without a competent lookout in the right seat, but common sense also says you don't gaze too long at the sexy colored light show on your glass panel in VMC instead of looking outside, either. My question is about regs, though.

-Stormy
 
see FAR 91.109(c)

Now if you want to open a can of worms, ask about the safety pilot logging PIC time.
 
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jrs14855 said:
That is not correct. If the pilot in command is comfortable with letting the safety pilot take off and land, that is legal, whether or not the PIC has instructors certificate.
There are many case where part 135 company instructors do not have an instructors certificate. They are simply designated by the FAA as company instructors. While taildraggers are very rare in this environment there are still a few around. Twin Beech, DC3 etc. A part 135 company instructor with no instructors certificate can train and sign off a new company pilots training in a taildragger. In the case of the DC3 a type rating would be required for PIC but copilot is just training and a sign off.
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And how many RVs fly under part 135?
 
faz, good luck with the rating. it is not an easy rating but it will all come together when you are about to go crazy. all of a sudden it all clicks and you are there. its great to have your own plane when you are learning because you can practice VFR, VFR/IFR with a safety pilot or IFR(in the clouds) with a rated pilot.:)
 
rleffler said:
And how many RVs fly under part 135?
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I agree that's an irrelevant example. Nonetheless, as far as I know, there is nothing in part 91 that prohibits the PIC from allowing others to manipulate the controls. Of course the PIC remains responsible, and if anything goes wrong the FAA can always employ "careless and reckless".

Strangely enough, a private pilot is not supposed to log any time as PIC during which he lets niece Sally manipulate the controls, even though he is the PIC!
 
Logging PIC

BobTurner said:
I agree that's an irrelevant example. Nonetheless, as far as I know, there is nothing in part 91 that prohibits the PIC from allowing others to manipulate the controls. Of course the PIC remains responsible, and if anything goes wrong the FAA can always employ "careless and reckless".

Strangely enough, a private pilot is not supposed to log any time as PIC during which he lets niece Sally manipulate the controls, even though he is the PIC!
Click to expand...

But you can log autopilot time. I can't prove it but I've always believed MOST pilots take a great deal of liberty in how they log actual instrument time. My logged actual instrument time is probably 20% of what most with similar total time have logged. I've been interrogated about this several times.
 
see FAR 91.109(c)

Now if you want to open a can of worms, ask about the safety pilot logging PIC time.
Click to expand...

Bob, like the primer wars. :D. One is serving and one is acting as "Pilot in command". Depending on which airline you interview with they either will or will not allow the broader interpretation ....:rolleyes: The most liberal interpretation I've seen was a guy in the nineties giving multi engine ratings with the student under the hood, the safety pilot in the right seat, and the MEI in the back seat giving dual and everyone was logging PIC. :eek: :eek:
 
Maxrate said:
I've seen was a guy in the nineties giving multi engine ratings with the student under the hood, the safety pilot in the right seat, and the MEI in the back seat giving dual and everyone was logging PIC. :eek: :eek:
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I have taken two Type Rating rides in the past week and was totally surprised by the Application form these days. "Total number of night landings logged as PIC? As SIC?! OK - I have log books in my safe from forty years ago - how the heck am I supposed to put down even a guess...and then sign that it is truthful?! Them logging rules are definitely stumpers..... (fortunately, the DPE only made me fill out the lines relevant to what we were doing....):rolleyes:
 
Paul, what's a type rating or two when you've got to fly the space shuttle sim........I'm jealous :D
 
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