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Needs to be Primed VS Want to Prime

I am just starting my RV-14A and priming is one of my weakest areas of knowledge. I've done some searching but I'm having trouble finding answers to these basic questions. I want to avoid a major mistake early in the project because of ignorance about a simple priming issue, and hopefully some other builders with the same questions/ignorance will see this thread.

1) My Rv-14A empennage kit came with an "empennage packet" which says, "All parts should be stored in a dry location. Do not store parts in the paper wrapping. The paper absorbs water and can promote corrosion. Steel parts, if not powder coated, should be oiled or primed immediately." First, do I need to take every part out of its little paper baggie, or is it just referring to larger parts? Second, are there actually any steel parts in the kit that aren't powder coated? I can't find any but I'm not 100% sure. Could it be that there are no steel parts that need priming in ANY of the RV-14A kits?

2) The RV-14A builder's manual, Chapter 5, says "All non-alclad aluminum such as 6061-T6 must be primed." How do I identify these parts. Does this mean I need to prime every metal part that is neither powder coated nor has vinyl on it, and nothing else? How much time do I have before I must prime these parts... is it time-sensitive, or is stainless steel the only thing you must prime immediately?

3) How do I prime the parts that need to be primed? When I ordered the kit I figured I could learn more about the painting process down the line and didn't realize priming was going to be the first thing I have to worry about after inventory. Chapter 5 mentions several primer options and seems to like Sherwin Williams P60G2. I see this posted on the Sherwin Williams website for ~ $115/gallon. Assuming I go with Van's recommendation here, how much of the paint will I need to prime just the parts mentioned in question 2 above for the empennage? How do I apply it (Chapter 5 implies spray gun so if needed I can start learning more about what I'll need to do that)?

4) I realize priming the interior is optional, and most people paint the outside. If I want to prime the interior for additional protection, at what stage do I do this? If I want a more rugged exterior, do I prime and paint the exterior vice just painting it? When do you prime, and when do you paint, the exterior?

Some of these questions I won't need to worry about until much later in the project, but it would be nice for the peace of mind to know I haven't missed anything important. Thank you very much for helping a new builder learn some of the basics here. The RV Assembly class I took was great but only spent about 20 seconds discussing priming and I didn't know the right questions to ask back then.
 
1) You should check every baggie so you know what's in it, at least. Anything steel and unprimed, protect it. Anything 6061 and unprimed, protect it. Primer or plastic bags with dessicant packs are pretty much your choices.

2) You have until they start to oxidize to prime them. How long that takes depends on the moisture content of the air in the region in which you live... Steel parts may never rust, or they may start to show rust in a few days. It's likely that any bare steel parts were shipped with a light oil coating, which will protect them. If not, a light oil coating will protect them until you need them. Aluminum is reasonably safe with the vinyl on it. 6061 parts (non-alclad) will oxidize as well, but slower than steel rusting in my experience.

3) For the smaller aluminum parts on the empennage, you could consider a self-etching primer sold in a rattle can. Sherwin Williams 988 has been used by many builders. Don't forget to clean the surfaces with the Sherwin-Williams surface cleaner (to remove any surface contaminants) and let the parts dry before painting. When you get to the larger parts (wings) you can look into two-part epoxy primers.

4) When you're finished doing any machining on a part, you can prime it and store it until you are ready for final assembly. It's not recommended to prime the outside surfaces of the aircraft, except along rivet lines so you get primer under the rivet heads. When you get to doing the final painting of the airplane, you'll want to put a uniform primer coat down before the colour coat, and it's best if that primer coat bonds directly to the aluminum. If you're not the one who will do the final painting, your chosen painter may have their own thoughts about what primer and preparation process to use.
 
Priming

I am just starting my RV-14A and priming is one of my weakest areas of knowledge. I've done some searching but I'm having trouble finding answers to these basic questions. I want to avoid a major mistake early in the project because of ignorance about a simple priming issue, and hopefully some other builders with the same questions/ignorance will see this thread.

1) My Rv-14A empennage kit came with an "empennage packet" which says, "All parts should be stored in a dry location. Do not store parts in the paper wrapping. The paper absorbs water and can promote corrosion. Steel parts, if not powder coated, should be oiled or primed immediately." First, do I need to take every part out of its little paper baggie, or is it just referring to larger parts? Second, are there actually any steel parts in the kit that aren't powder coated? I can't find any but I'm not 100% sure. Could it be that there are no steel parts that need priming in ANY of the RV-14A kits?

I recommend a thoroug read if the "Primer Wars" thread. Yes. Remove from paper and inventory. Store in some sort of organization you will understand later. Save some of those dessicant packs and toss them in the storage bin. Yes there are on the 7 but don't know about the 14. You will find them during inventory. A simple spray with cheap primer will suffice till they are needed and it can be wiped off.

2) The RV-14A builder's manual, Chapter 5, says "All non-alclad aluminum such as 6061-T6 must be primed." How do I identify these parts. Does this mean I need to prime every metal part that is neither powder coated nor has vinyl on it, and nothing else? How much time do I have before I must prime these parts... is it time-sensitive, or is stainless steel the only thing you must prime immediately?

2024 is clad in blue vinyl. 6061 is bare. It's depender on environment. In general, you can wait but if it's humid and salty, better check often. Stainless is stable.


3) How do I prime the parts that need to be primed? When I ordered the kit I figured I could learn more about the painting process down the line and didn't realize priming was going to be the first thing I have to worry about after inventory. Chapter 5 mentions several primer options and seems to like Sherwin Williams P60G2. I see this posted on the Sherwin Williams website for ~ $115/gallon. Assuming I go with Van's recommendation here, how much of the paint will I need to prime just the parts mentioned in question 2 above for the empennage? How do I apply it (Chapter 5 implies spray gun so if needed I can start learning more about what I'll need to do that)?

How depends on primer. P60G2 would be an HVLP gun. For question #2, maybe 1 quart primer and 1/2 gallon catalyst but it only comes in gallons. Feel free to send me e-mail. I shot the whole inside with it. If you're only shooting #2, buy some SEM rattle can primer. Easier.


4) I realize priming the interior is optional, and most people paint the outside. If I want to prime the interior for additional protection, at what stage do I do this? If I want a more rugged exterior, do I prime and paint the exterior vice just painting it? When do you prime, and when do you paint, the exterior?

Prime interior before final riveting of components. Primer outside will be removed by your painter. Not much point.


Some of these questions I won't need to worry about until much later in the project, but it would be nice for the peace of mind to know I haven't missed anything important. Thank you very much for helping a new builder learn some of the basics here. The RV Assembly class I took was great but only spent about 20 seconds discussing priming and I didn't know the right questions to ask back then.

Additional letters added.
 
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I am just starting my RV-14A and priming is one of my weakest areas of knowledge. I've done some searching but I'm having trouble finding answers to these basic questions. I want to avoid a major mistake early in the project because of ignorance about a simple priming issue, and hopefully some other builders with the same questions/ignorance will see this thread.

1) My Rv-14A empennage kit came with an "empennage packet" which says, "All parts should be stored in a dry location. Do not store parts in the paper wrapping. The paper absorbs water and can promote corrosion. Steel parts, if not powder coated, should be oiled or primed immediately." First, do I need to take every part out of its little paper baggie, or is it just referring to larger parts? Second, are there actually any steel parts in the kit that aren't powder coated? I can't find any but I'm not 100% sure. Could it be that there are no steel parts that need priming in ANY of the RV-14A kits?

Yep make sure that you take all the paper out and everything out of bags to inventory it. Anything steel protect it, anything 6061 just wait until you use it to worry about primer.

2) The RV-14A builder's manual, Chapter 5, says "All non-alclad aluminum such as 6061-T6 must be primed." How do I identify these parts. Does this mean I need to prime every metal part that is neither powder coated nor has vinyl on it, and nothing else? How much time do I have before I must prime these parts... is it time-sensitive, or is stainless steel the only thing you must prime immediately?

They are generally dull aluminum and don't come with the plastic coating on them. It is usually thicker material too. Prime when you build/assemble the part. When priming you will scuff the parts anyways with maroon scotchbrite.

3) How do I prime the parts that need to be primed? When I ordered the kit I figured I could learn more about the painting process down the line and didn't realize priming was going to be the first thing I have to worry about after inventory. Chapter 5 mentions several primer options and seems to like Sherwin Williams P60G2. I see this posted on the Sherwin Williams website for ~ $115/gallon. Assuming I go with Van's recommendation here, how much of the paint will I need to prime just the parts mentioned in question 2 above for the empennage? How do I apply it (Chapter 5 implies spray gun so if needed I can start learning more about what I'll need to do that)?

This is an area you will want to research but the general consensus is scuff the parts in their totality with maroon scotchbrite, clean with acetone, spray on your primer of choice within a few hours. Some will take it one step further and alodine before priming. Some will also acid etch the parts when scrubbing with scotchbrite (I only do this if there are small nooks and crannies I can't get the scotchbrite in. Another spectacular choice of primer is Akzo found here. (no thinner necessary) In my mind and many others it's the gold standard. However, that is my opinion and you will find that the topic of priming can get people quite heated. haha Also forgot to metntion that when spraying most people just use an HVLP gun from harbor freight. They are so cheap I think I used three of them as cleaning them seems to only go so far.

4) I realize priming the interior is optional, and most people paint the outside. If I want to prime the interior for additional protection, at what stage do I do this? If I want a more rugged exterior, do I prime and paint the exterior vice just painting it? When do you prime, and when do you paint, the exterior?

You would prime the parts just before final assembly and riveting. I'm sure it's out there as suggested in the post above but I have never seen anyone prime the outside where just the rivets are. Almost everyone doesn't prime the exterior at all until painting the plane.

Some of these questions I won't need to worry about until much later in the project, but it would be nice for the peace of mind to know I haven't missed anything important. Thank you very much for helping a new builder learn some of the basics here. The RV Assembly class I took was great but only spent about 20 seconds discussing priming and I didn't know the right questions to ask back then.

Haha they probably didn't talk about it much because A. they weren't going to show you. and B. it is a sensitive subject haha

Hope the above helps.
 
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Thank you for the responses and information.

3) For the smaller aluminum parts on the empennage, you could consider a self-etching primer sold in a rattle can. Sherwin Williams 988 has been used by many builders. Don't forget to clean the surfaces with the Sherwin-Williams surface cleaner (to remove any surface contaminants) and let the parts dry before painting. When you get to the larger parts (wings) you can look into two-part epoxy primers.
The rattle can approach seems to make the most sense for now. I'm having trouble finding the 988 for sale, and I'm not clear which product you are referring to by "Sherwin-Williams surface cleaner" (unless you can just use acetone). Can you point me to these items? Also, I figure I should get a respirator of some type... does this work?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JNF1I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
 
Thank you for the responses and information.

The rattle can approach seems to make the most sense for now. I'm having trouble finding the 988 for sale, and I'm not clear which product you are referring to by "Sherwin-Williams surface cleaner" (unless you can just use acetone). Can you point me to these items? Also, I figure I should get a respirator of some type... does this work?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JNF1I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

There are less expensive options here:

https://www.summitracing.com/search...&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=paint respirator
 
You can identify the material by cross-checking to Chapter 4, which has a detailed (and handy) parts list. It lists the material.

In your part of the country, you really should prime the parts or they will corrode. It's almost guaranteed. If a part needs to be trimmed or something, it should be touched-up afterwards. When to do it? As soon as possible, but after deburring, because that'll leave some bare edge.

Wirejock's suggestion to read the VAF section on priming is good. You'll shortly get overwhelmed, though. A quick summary:

Corrosion protection comes in two generic forms. One is as a barrier, and the other is a chemical that inhibits corrosion. SEM rattle-can primer is an example of the first and zinc chromate is an example of the second.

For ease of use, the rattle can primers can't be beat. I've used SEM, which is excellent, but not as rugged as the epoxies. I've used zinc chromate, which is good but sprays poorly, and zinc phosphate, which is okay and also sprays poorly.

The two-part ones I've experience with are Azko Nobel, rugged as heck, but someone else did the spraying so I can't comment about that.

The Eastwood 2K rattle can two-part epoxy primer is easy to use if pricey, sprays nicely, but is difficult to get a good finish. Seems rugged.

The Stewart Systems water-based epoxy (EkoPoxy) is good, rugged, and dried reasonably quickly, but needs a good compressor, a decent spray gun, a supplied-air face mask like the HobbyAir full-face one, and somewhat stringent environmental conditions. And afterwards you'll have to clean the gun. With water, but still a bit of a nuisance.

I'm using the SEM for general every-day work.

The zinc stuff got used for the inside of the fuselage skins, except for the top of the tailcone skins, which got white EkoPoxy.

Why the differences?

The gray SEM is a nice contrast to the yellow zinc. The white makes crawling inside the tailcone brighter. And that's it.

Dave
 
What do the quick build fuselage and wings come primed with? I would like to keep my project consistent throughout. I thought it was the Sherwin Williams P60G2 however the few quick builds I have seen seem to be a much darker green.
 
I've heard P60G2 is tinted green only in the US. I use the stuff and can confirm it is green. Overseas however, there isn't a color tint, so the quickbuilds from the Philippines don't exhibit the same green tint. I'm not a quickbuilder so I haven't put eyes on exactly what the primer from those looks like.
 
There was an article in the RVator (pre internet) by a serial builder .. who put planes together FAST. He would strip the plastic and prime everything right from the start .. both sides, prior to match drilling and dimpling. Used good azko stuff. The primer would generally hold up to most abuse, and he would touch up as needed when needed. Made his builds go quite a bit faster. I'd seriously consider doing this if I was gonna build another.
 
Thank you for the responses and information.

The rattle can approach seems to make the most sense for now. I'm having trouble finding the 988 for sale, and I'm not clear which product you are referring to by "Sherwin-Williams surface cleaner" (unless you can just use acetone). Can you point me to these items? Also, I figure I should get a respirator of some type... does this work?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JNF1I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

I prefer a 3M with 60923 filters.
Not to climb on my soapbox but prep is almost if not more important than the primer. Prepped incorrectly, corrosion can form under the primer completely unoticed. Feel free to review my blog for a posting on prep. It may have drifted to older post links at the bottom. Look for Sunday, January 28, 2018
 
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I've heard P60G2 is tinted green only in the US. I use the stuff and can confirm it is green. Overseas however, there isn't a color tint, so the quickbuilds from the Philippines don't exhibit the same green tint. I'm not a quickbuilder so I haven't put eyes on exactly what the primer from those looks like.

Correct. Vans uses P60G2 on QB. Not sure of color either. The US stuff is greenish gold when sprayed very thin. It tends more green if sprayed heavier. I sprayed my interior and also shot Jet Flex Solvent based gray and black over it for parts that show. All waa was sprayed prior to assembly so rivets would contrast.
 
The rattle can approach seems to make the most sense for now. I'm having trouble finding the 988 for sale, and I'm not clear which product you are referring to by "Sherwin-Williams surface cleaner" (unless you can just use acetone). Can you point me to these items?
Hmm... A quick google search suggests 988 may no longer be available... At least, I can't find it either. The surface prep was "Sher-Wil-Clean", the number is R7K156. It may be hard to find now as well, my supply is about 5 years old now.

As others have said, there are other primers that many people have used, and the surface prep is the important step. MarHyde 5111 or SEM 39683, and prep the surface as others have described above.
 
I prefer a 3M with 60923 filters.
Not to climb on my soapbox but prep is almost if not more important than the primer. Prepped incorrectly, corrosion can form under the primer completely unoticed. Feel free to review my blog for a posting on prep. It may have drifted to older post links at the bottom. Look for Sunday, January 28, 2018
Thanks for pointing me to your blog, I will use your method.

I'm getting SEM 39683 for spray-on priming for now and a 3M with 60923 filters.
 
When I was drilling, my chuck accidentally came into contact with the edge of a rudder hinge bracket, scraping away a bit of the powder coating. I know I can just paint over the exposed metal rather than replace the whole hinge bracket but... exactly what paint should I use and how should I apply it? I don't think it should be necessary for me to spray the paint just for the small spot/scratches on the hinge bracket.
 
When I was drilling, my chuck accidentally came into contact with the edge of a rudder hinge bracket, scraping away a bit of the powder coating. I know I can just paint over the exposed metal rather than replace the whole hinge bracket but... exactly what paint should I use and how should I apply it? I don't think it should be necessary for me to spray the paint just for the small spot/scratches on the hinge bracket.

The steel needs rust protection so you just need to cover the exposed area with a suitable coating. Just brush on some primer so the steel is no longer exposed.
 
The steel needs rust protection so you just need to cover the exposed area with a suitable coating. Just brush on some primer so the steel is no longer exposed.

The only primer I have right now is a spray-on. What can I use to brush on? Or should I spray a bunch into a little cup then brush it on?
 
Matching rattle can paint

Look for a can of matching rattle can paint. I got one from Flyboys but also found it at a local powder coat shop.
Cardinal Gloss Gray RAL 7035
A-4108-GR230
I think the color is the GR230.
Easy to spray into a cup and dab with a Q-tip.
 
4) I realize priming the interior is optional, and most people paint the outside. If I want to prime the interior for additional protection, at what stage do I do this? If I want a more rugged exterior, do I prime and paint the exterior vice just painting it? When do you prime, and when do you paint, the exterior?
.

You should be geared up for priming from the start. Building these kits is a big, long term project. This means bins for organization, tool carts or benches already built. If you are going to prime, I recommend a downdraft spray booth unless you live someplace warm year round. I bet I spent at least two months prepping for my first kit. All the info you need is here on VAF to get this project kicked off right.
 
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