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Handheld com as primary inflight

M

maxelrad

Member
I am in the final stages of RV-4 construction and would consider using a handheld com with external antenna as my primary radio. Feedback on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Please keep opinions to a minimum. Actual experience positive and negative would be very useful. Thanks.
 
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If you fly exclusively in and out of uncontrolled fields it might work. Otherwise, range for a handheld is limited so I wouldn't do it.

My $.02
 
Reference post #2, what is the relative output power between a handheld and panel mounted radio. If significantly different, I would not do it.
 
It works fine.

Before there were lightweight coms on the market this was the standard setup for most hardcore acro planes well into the 90's - even Tucker's plane was set up like this 10 years ago.

I flew this system in my S-1S for about 5 years with no problems. If you are trying to use it to talk to ATC say to get flight following or something outside of the local airport environment though I probably wouldn't do it as my primary com as they don't have a ton of transmitting power. If you do it it is nice to have it wired into the electrical system though.
 
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Relative power outputs

I found:
Garmin 430W - 10 watts
Garmin SL-40 - 8 watts
Icom A14 - 5 watts
Vertex 220 IV - 5 watts.
 
I flew that way in my old J-3 Cub for years - worked just fine in the pattern (I think - maybe I was NORDO all the time, and never knew it....).

We're setting up the RV-1 with one of the new Dynon handhelds as the Comm radio due to space limitations (there IS no space). the airplane will only go cross-country with an escort, so range isn't important. We'll see how it works soon - I hope.

Paul
 
we used a Icom A6 as the only comm in a Rans S-6. When hooked to an external antenna it worked great. 25mile+ range. It also had the battery eliminator pak so it ran off ships power.

The biggest drawback was the readability of the screen made it difficult to change channels. (It was mounted low near my right knee).
 
I had an old unreliable panel radio in my Cherokee 140, I used an ICOM for years as primary radio. Even without an external antenna I had no problems ever. In my currentl build, I am putting in the antenna splitter from ICOM so I can use the aircraft antenna if I choose to, a great backup system I feel.
 
Obviously you can do whatever you wish, but given the info here, I would probably not buy an RV equipped that way...primarily due to the degraded range compared to a more powerful panel mount radio.
 
ATC Network

I appreciate your responses - doing further research I came up with this:

Center airspace is divided into sectors in the same manner
as terminal airspace; additionally, most Center airspace is
divided by altitudes into high and low sectors. Each sector
has a dedicated team of controllers and a selection of radio
frequencies, because ---- each Center has a network of remote transmitter/receiver sites. ----All Center frequencies can be found
in the back of the A/FD in the format shown in Figure 9-13;
they are also found on en route charts.

Each ARTCC?s area of responsibility covers several states;
when flying from the vicinity of one remote communication
site toward another, expect to hear the same controller on
different frequencies.

Source:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/...andbook/media/FAA-H-8083-15A - Chapter 09.pdf


The requirement for higher power may not be necessary.
 
It can work, but it is a PITA.. I fly this way all the time. It is all I have in my L-2.

An external antenna is a must. (do not even consider a rubber duck antenna) Still transmit power is poor, Tuning is difficult, the frequencies are often difficult to see in the sun, and there are often jack issues.

But we get along just fine... It goes to OSH almost every year with a bag full of batteries. (we use Alkalines. Rechargable packs are always flat and with AA you can change them in flight. If you have 12 V power this is not an issue.

With that said, if the L-2 had an electrical system, it would have a "real" radio in a heartbeat!!! I would "moderate to strongly" recommend against it...

Doug Rozendaal
F-1 EVO
Taylorcraft L-2M
 
I used a ICOM for years

as a primary radio in a cessna with a external antenna for 20 years including years of low level pipeline patrol involving calling approach from twenty miles out from down low and never had a single problem. I have equipped my RV6 with a Vertex handheld and external antenna. So far so good. I am not sure but I think the radio puts out 5w same as many panel mounts.
 
Opinion

Personally I would not but...I did have a comm failure and pulled out my vertex pro 3 or whatever and hooked my headset in. When I contacted tower and advised I had comm issue and was on a handheld they said they could not believe the range and clarity as they are used to hearing pretty crappy handhelds. I believe todays handhelds are great and if thats what you want...likely will work just fine.
 
I've done it twice. In the Varieze I put together I had a Delcom mounted in the panel. Cool thing about the Delcom, Was that it uses mechanical controls and they are on the end of the unit, not the front so it only took up a few inches in the panel. I had it hard wired with external antenna and wired to headsets. It worked pretty well, long cross countries, etc.
Last year I had to send my only com into Garmin and I hooked my SP400 to the external ant and used a headset adapter. I tested it at various distances from local towered airport and the controllers gave me loud and clear responses on every test. I had only tested to about 35 miles out at 2.5K.
That said, another cheap option is an FL760 com. Installed it in my last plane, a Velocity, as a 2nd com. Worked better than the KX155.
 
I used my Icom A-24 in my Champ and an Ultralight with external entenna and it worked better than I thought it would. If money is tight then go for it.
 
handheld radio

I sometimes fly an Aeronca with no electrical system and a handheld radio connected an external antenna. I love it and I have no transmission/reception problems when talking to local controllers. As soon as I am out of controlled airspace, I turn off the radio and enjoy the silence. Its very peaceful flying. (It has the bare minimum gauges too, so its nice to get back to flying by looking outside the airplane instead of falling into the trap of staring at all the neat whiz bang gauges.)

If I was flying a over a hundred miles or so in the Aeronca, I would prefer to have a panel mount radio onboard. Just makes me feel warm and fuzzy to be able to reach out and contact somebody if I need it. With a handheld, you could get into an area where you cant contact anyone for a few minutes.
 
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Handheld in my -4

I have been using a Garmin hanheld com/gps in my -4 for a year now. I have a external antena on the belly and mounted the radio on the r/h armrest. Been working great for a year now, and I have been told I am as loud and clear as any panel mount. Not sure how far out it can be heard, but I have spoke to CLT class B with no problem. BYTW, I am from Pittsburgh and plan to start making flights to and from there soon...where are you planning to base your -4? I learned to fly at Washington Co. airport in the 70's. Im trying to find an airport where I can hangar my bird when I come to visit.
 
mikerkba said:
I found:
Garmin 430W - 10 watts
Garmin SL-40 - 8 watts
Icom A14 - 5 watts
Vertex 220 IV - 5 watts.
Click to expand...

I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

The Vertex VXA-220 is rated at 5W PEP (peak envelope power) and 1.5W of Carrier.

The SL-40 is rated at 8W of Carrier (which is probably between 25 and 32 watts PEP)

Operationally you may have no need for that much power, but there is a difference.

Paige
RV-8A
 
My KX-99 with external antenna (stainless rod for comm, splitter off the whiskers for nav, BNC's on the panel connected to the radio with a short length of RG-58) is loud and clear out to at least 50 miles. Nav range and accuracy is comparable to KX-155 (the whole setup is 20+ years old). I have it mounted via the belt clip on a bracket on the side wall (mostly) out of the sun, and wired into COM2 on the audio panel. I keep it charged with ship's power. The original ni-cad battery lasted about 18 years that way, and the new li-ion replacement battery seems to do fine too.
 
Where are the HAMs?

I'm surprised that none of the HAMs on this forum haven't spoken up. If you think power is an issue, take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

If you approach the same formulas from a power standpoint instead of distance, it basically means that it takes around 10 times the power to double the range.

On the *same antenna*, there will be very little difference in range between a panel mount comm & a quality handheld running on ship's power. Difference *might* be more noticeable if the handheld is operated on internal batteries; some handhelds do have reduced output on batteries.

Charlie
 
Transmit power is unlikely to be a problem.

Difficulties are more likely to be seen in the receiver performance - in particular the receiver selectivity or the ability to reject out of band rf energy. Typical interference will be from radar sites, cell towers, hf transmission stations etc, and if the security services are in town the spectrum spreading tranceivers. (this is certainly the case for my own handheld)

Effects will be noise or deafness of the receiver.

The small packages of the handheld are often not sufficient to house the filtering necessary - but the modern micro devices are making better receivers smaller.

Also, check to see that the handhleld will work with your headset if you plan a direct connection. Microphone powering For electret mic inserts is sometimes not sufficiently versatile to work wth some headsets.

Doug Gray
 
We do this all the time in Luscombes.

For range, you'll want an external antenna, and there are adapters that allow you to plug a normal headset into the handheld.

Icoms seem to work the best, and you need to be aware that Vertex radios don't do well with an external antenna, due to the antenna overloading the RF sections. Vertex radios on their factory rubber duck antennas work well; albeit without the range that an external antenna provides.

Main issue that I have seen with handhelds is being able to read the frequency from wherever you mount it. Sit in the plane and experiment with this attribute.
 
Anyone with experice with the Dynon handheld that they'd care to share? I looking at a similar thing for an ultralight

Bob
 
mculver said:
.......Main issue that I have seen with handhelds is being able to read the frequency from wherever you mount it. Sit in the plane and experiment with this attribute.
Click to expand...

I had this issue all the time in a bubble canopy airplane I flew with a handheld. It was a real PITA. I ended up just laying the radio in my lap which wasnt ideal.
 
blueflyer said:
I had this issue all the time in a bubble canopy airplane I flew with a handheld. It was a real PITA. I ended up just laying the radio in my lap which wasnt ideal.
Click to expand...

I mounted on the right side angled toward the pilot, able to see the screen. SP400 has fairly large screen.

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hydroguy2 said:
we used a Icom A6 as the only comm in a Rans S-6. When hooked to an external antenna it worked great. 25mile+ range. It also had the battery eliminator pak so it ran off ships power.
Click to expand...

Dad and I did the same thing with our Pazmany. Used both Icom A23 and my A6 connected to external ant. and we picked up ATIS 20+ miles out with both loud and clear.
 
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