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How much did you trust your aircraft by the end of Phase 1?

N546RV

Well Known Member
OK, I'll start with some background. I currently have a goal to finish the -8 next year. I also have a goal, once it's done, to do a big trip - flying to NC to pick up my dad, and taking him up to OSH. It'd be a good callback to the days we used to go on air show trips up to Oceana and Langley back in the mid 2000s.

But I've been thinking about this, mostly in terms of how realistic it is to be flying and finish Phase 1 in time for OSH 2021. Generally I've just been thinking in terms of "can I get that done in time" but now I'm beginning to wonder if it's even smart to potentially take a plane just out of Phase 1 and go straight to a thousand-mile cross-country trip. One part of me thinks that by the time 40 hours rolls around, kinks should be either worked out or understood, the other part says that might be naive.

And thus I pose this question - did you folks sort of "ramp up" your RV activities after 40 hours? Were there issues that cropped up after that time that might have been trouble on a long trip? At what point did you feel confident enough in the aircraft to commit to a serious trip? Am I completely overthinking this (as is my tendency)?
 
I flew my airplane 800 miles for paint when it had about 55 hours on it. Then, after paint I flew it home and 5 days later flew it 700 miles to Oshkosh. I felt very comfortable in it after my 40 hours, although I tried to be careful with the weather choices. As for flying to Oshkosh, I chose to arrive on Tuesday to avoid the weekend fur-ball arrival mess I experienced in 2018. Remember, the field usually closes to certificated aircraft on Monday, but Experimentals are always welcome. Arrival on Tuesday was by far the least stressful of my dozen or so previous arrivals, all in certificated aircraft. YMMV
 
Philip:

I departed for Oshkosh in 2005 with 25 hours on my RV-8 (I had a factory certified engine so my Phase I only required a 25 hour test period). By the time I had reached 25 hours of testing, I was certain that all the key factors that might effect a cross country flight were tested and in good shape. No problems were encountered on my five hour flight to OSH or on the return.

As you test fly, you will likely develop a feel for the aircraft. If you are not comfortable with the aircraft at the end of 40 hours, then don't push your luck. There's always another AirVenture but only one of you. It's not a race, so take your time, fly the plane and you'll know if it's ready to go.

Good luck,

Chris
 
Phillip, think of the 1000 mile cross country as two 3 hour legs, followed by down time for a cowl pull and inspection at your Dad's place, followed by two more legs to OSH, followed by plenty of time for another cowl pull (with plenty of experienced eyes) before reversing the trip.

Point is, neither confidence or bravado is required. Just keep inspecting on a regular basis, as you did for the previous 40 hours.
 
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At the end of my 25 hours, I felt very confidant about the capabilities of the plane.

Now, the pilot's ability to correctly utilize the plane..........
 
First flight was in June 2017. Thought was to finish 40 hours and fly to OSH. No way could I get it all done. Finished my 40 hours in November. Departed SoCal with 40.1 hours on her and landed at new home in GA 2 days later. Over 1800 NM. Not for everyone. I felt very comfortable with her and how she flew. I feel ALOT more comfortable now with almost 600 hours on her.
 
I used up almost every hour of my 40 hour Phase 1 testing flights. Afterwards, I was very confident in the aircraft, and also my piloting skills in that aircraft. Please do not place a deadline to get it done. It is what it is.. Reminds me of the RV-10 builder who "claimed" he flew off his 40 hour Phase 1 in less than a weeks time so he could take his family on a CX trip he had already planned. That family is dead know. I still think of that tragedy often, even though its been about 8 years ago.
 
Finished Phase One within several weeks and ran couple hundred milles xcountry right after. My RV is all stock barebone day VFR I felt pretty confident.
 
Keep in mind that you might run into a variety of systems and mechanical issues during phase I that may require head scratching and tinkering to resolve. This can take a lot of time.
 
Had 45.5 hours on plane before taking 875 mile trip for paint. And, went IFR in to the soup after takeoff. I can say, after Phase 1, I felt very good about it. Plane performed beautifully. I think you’ll find your confidence after 40 hours.
 
There's several ways to "answer" your question...
* Can you fly the airplane in "normal" conditions with no problems?
* Can you spot problems by subtle cues before they become serious?
* Can you handle emergencies in the new plane with reasonable chance of an acceptable outcome?
* Can you fly the plane in unplanned corners of the envelope if you have to?
* Do you have enough experience in the new plane you can fly with high situational awareness?

There are a variety of factors that come into play...
* Have you learned to fly a number of planes well so that you pick up cues from the feel of the controls?
* Do you have enough experience in flying in general so that you easily and almost always have high situational awareness?
* Will your planned flight to Oshkosh be low enough stress that it won't overtax your skills and situational awareness? Weather, route, terrain, distance between airports, Oshkosh procedures and traffic, etc.

I've owned six airplanes by now. The RV-9A was delivered to my home airport; I got three landings each in the Cessna 175 (tons of 172 experience) and the AirCam (quite unusual to fly!) before taking off on 1,000 mile trips home; the RV-8, and RV-8A (350 hours of RV-4 time) were no checkout available, first flight was a long X-C; only the RV-4 was over semi-familiar territory. And in all of these planes, my first landings (plural) were good to excellent.

To be honest, I was pushing it a little bit, even though when I got my first plane, the RV-4, I was CFII, had flown gliders and maybe 50 or 100 kinds of planes.

So it's like any other flight in any other airplane: what are the risk factors, what are the mitigating factors, how many total risks will you take on each leg, and what's the maximum number of risk factors that might come into play at the same time.

Talk it over with your CFIs, your buddies, etc., and make your best decision. Don't pressure yourself into something foolish. I've taken the airlines to Oshkosh two of the last three years due to weather, and that was my risk mitigation...
 
I felt very confident in mine. I finished Phase 1 on a Friday, and loaded up to go to SnF the following morning. The electronic ignition failed on runup. ;-)
 
I flew off my 40 in 11 flying days over the space of about 3 weeks. I flew her back to my home airport on a Wednesday, took my wife for her first flight in her namesake plane on Saturday, and departed for the 1500 miles to Oshkosh on Wednesday. I had about 60 or 65 hours of tailwheel time at that point. The trip was relatively uneventful though my idle was set a bit low and the engine quit on the runway 3 times on the way there. I learned not to pull it all the way to the stop as a temporary fix and set the idle properly when we got home. ~Two hundred and fifty hours in my 6 now I'm really comfortable with landings and I stick wheel landings almost every time with no bounce. I like them better than 3 pointers now. I was probably in the neighborhood of 150 hours when I quit bouncing more landings than I stuck.

I wouldn't recommend that kind of push to finish and go if you don't have a lot of experience. I'm over 1700 total hours and more than 900 of those in RVs with 3 coast to coast trips and a bunch more long flights so the cross country component didn't faze me. I'm also an A&P with a lot of RV inspections and maintenance and carry a pretty extensive toolkit. The prospect of troubleshooting on the road wasn't as daunting to me as it might be to some.

Also what Ed said, if you haven't flown your RV loaded to the gills and probably pretty tail heavy, you might just be in for a nasty surprise when you run it low on fuel on your way somewhere. I did that in the 6A and I never want to do it again. Mushy stick = no fun at all. That was the day I made room for my toolkit as far forward as I could get it behind the firewall.


Ed Holyoke
 
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With only 75 hrs. on the Hobbs, I flew my Lancair from NC to Oregon, down the coast to LA, then back home to NC - 5000 sm in all. I have to admit that I was doing a lot of praying over the badlands between Salt Lake and Oregon. I brought tools and parts with me but, amazingly, nothing broke. When I got home and inspected, there was a small crack in one of my exhaust flanges. That was it.
 
Don’t listen to anyone else’s opinion. Don’t commit yourself to do anything this far in advance it will only add unnecessary pressure. Make the decision after you have completed your 40 hours. If you do everything right, you will know if the airplane and you are ready. Just commit yourself to follow your gut what to do.
 
A lot of confirmation bias going on here. If you completed phase 1 and are confident in your airplane, bearing in mind that it may not be fully broken in, AND you are totally confident in your ability to fly it and know how to fly the newfangled avionics, go for it.

Pilot decision making is up to you, not us.

V
 
It's an RV... it is a reliable design.

As far as your confidence at end of Phase 1.... for a long cross country. I would just pull the cowl during the trip and have a look. It is possible things might get loose or chaffing may happen. However it is basically a new plane and should enjoy reliability accordingly if you built it right. I am sure you did.

The follow on question how many people completed Phase 1 and than had major problems with in the first 100 hours (even if flow locally).

I found it took me 200 hours to sort things out, but nothing major and nothing that affecting airworthiness. A lot of this was tinkering and perfecting more than fixing issues.
 
As has been pointed out by a few, but is worth repeating - Phase 1 is not a race. Take your time, follow a test plan, check things along the way, and expect it to take what it takes. It is not about “flying off the hours” - it is about proving the airplane, the engine, and all of the systems. You do this with a defined test program, and when you’re finished, you’re finished - then you can confidently plan a trip. I have used the EAA Flight Test Manual on two airplanes, and it has taken just shy of 40 hours to complete in both cases. Enjoy and learn!

Paul
 
I think the real question is, will you actually be done in time to fly your 40 hours off without rushing through the final build or Phase 1?

I had high hopes of finishing and getting my time flown off in time for OSH 1996. By the time I finally did, it was 2000 :rolleyes:

Randall
 
Get a parachute and have someone teach you how to use it properly. It the flying part goes sideways just change hats and go for a skydive instead. Having a parachute and a well rehearsed "plan B" is a tremendous comfort for the "what if" stuff that goes through your head whilst up there.
 
I think the real question is, will you actually be done in time to fly your 40 hours off without rushing through the final build or Phase 1?

I had high hopes of finishing and getting my time flown off in time for OSH 1996. By the time I finally did, it was 2000 :rolleyes:

Randall

Honestly, it's kind of that thought that got me thinking about this. My general intent has been to hopefully have the airplane flying by March or April, which would leave me 3-4 months to do Phase 1. I have the benefit of living with my airplane, so no drives to/from the airport to fly or work on squawks, and hopefully I'll still be working from home most of the time vs being back to commuting five days a week.

That said, I'm starting to get skeptical of my chances of having this thing airworthy six months from now. I'm not sure if this is a legitimate concern or just me feeling a little cynical while being overwhelmed by all the myriad systems decisions I'm making right now. I do think it will require a strong work ethic to achieve that goal, and I question whether I can/will maintain the necessary momentum.

Anyway, that thought process led me to considering what would happen if I didn't fly until, say, May. Could Phase 1 be done in two months? Maybe, in my situation, but then I started imagining basically signing the thing off a week before going cross-country, and wondering just how wise that was.

Realistically - as so many of you have pointed out - there's no blanket answer for any of this. The build will take as long as it takes. Phase 1 will take as long as it takes. After those 40 hours, I'll either have lots of confidence after a trouble-free period, or some concerns due to things I've fixed recently, and as such either I will or I won't feel OK taking the thing on a trip.

I guess the thing to reiterate, to Paul's point, is that while I have a goal of doing OSH 2021 in this plane, it's not do-or-die. Heck, if it's not done, I'll just have my fallback goal, which is for it to be done in time to fly to NC next October for my parents' 50th anniversary.

:)
 
I had 55 hours on the Hobbs over 7-1/2 months when I left for my first major cross country - 6.5 hours to Denver. I didn't have trust issues with the plane, did have a few ground handling issues but no in flight problems. That trip ended poorly with a hard landing at an airport a little more than an hour from home. That wasn't the plane, it was the pilot. Fast forward 3 months and I was at 90 on the Hobbs when I left for a cross continental trip. Pilot was better this time - hard knocks are a great teacher. This trip really worked out the kinks, I had numerous breakdowns - all on the ground. Apart from the large inconveniences of having problems away from home, this was a very good opportunity to improve the plane and pilot.

14 months later, I'm now at 204 Hobbs, my ability to handle the plane in a variety of situations is always improving, I don't expect that to change. It's kind of like a relationship, you can settle in, get comfortable and let it stagnate or you can invest fully and watch it thrive. The plane is developing into a reliable partner and we are getting to know each other, in a manner of speaking. My point is, this is not an overnight thing, it takes time. But the growth really comes in the challenges and cross country trips present the best challenges.
 
I did my 40 hours using the EAA test cards in a little under a month. I had very few issues to resolve that affected safety of flight, and those only minor. As part of my test plan, I made two 4 hour flights within my 100 nm flight box trying different altitudes and cruse settings etc. When it came to the first cross country of about 600 miles, it was shorter than my longest test flight.

Looking at the question from another side;
The worst thing I can do to myself to take the enjoyment out of a project is to set a hard timeline .... then it becomes too much like work!
If you really want to finish by a fixed date, realistically estimate the time required to finish, add 25-50% then divide by the days/weeks left. If you can't put in that many hours each week, then you know early on that it's not going to happen.

Confidence in the aircraft and your comfort in flight will come with time in the aircraft once you have it in the air. Funny to think of now, but I orbited high and within gliding distance of the airport for the first 2-3 hours. Then I would fly straight from airport A to airport B with as little time in between as possible. It took about 10 hours and several inspections before I became comfortable going out to the practice area and focusing on flight testing without keeping a runway close at hand.

Enjoy the process. Most of us will only get to take this journey once in our lives!
 
6 days after I signed off Phase 1, I launched from west Texas to Oshkosh.

Now I packed a tool kit and a few spare parts, don't get me wrong - but I still went.
 
Honestly, it's kind of that thought that got me thinking about this. My general intent has been to hopefully have the airplane flying by March or April, which would leave me 3-4 months to do Phase 1.
[...]
that thought process led me to considering what would happen if I didn't fly until, say, May. Could Phase 1 be done in two months? Maybe, in my situation, but then I started imagining basically signing the thing off a week before going cross-country, and wondering just how wise that was.
[etc.]

Sounds like you have the right attitude about not rushing to get it done. And assuming you can focus on it without a lot of distractions (and no big issues show up), a couple of months doesn't seem unreasonable to get through Phase 1.

So assuming that all those stars line up, then coming back to your original question I would say that yeah speaking for myself I would have been comfortable making that trip on the heels of Phase 1 -- or as comfortable as anyone ever is making that pilgrimage, which can be daunting under any circumstances! But reading between the lines it sounds like this isn't your first rodeo.
 
It took me well over 4 months to finish Phase 1, due to some electronic/avionics issues (manufacturer caused). After those issues were resolved, I was able to basically get my last 20 hours done in just a few weeks. I think the airplane was ready to be trusted at the end of Phase 1, but me the pilot was still the weakest link. I had come off a 23 year hiatus in piloting, so it was a bit daunting to do any long cross countries. We did fly out to visit our kid in Colorado for her birthday in October with about 50 hours on the Hobbs. We flew out over the Grand Canyon checked off a bucket list item, and we had a wonderful weekend. How else can you go from California to Boulder, CO for a weekend? That trip really started gave me more confidence to plan and fly longer trips.
 
How confident were you in your airplane after phase 1.

I had confidence in each of the first flights if have completed on rollout of the first flight otherwise i would have aborted the flight. Lets be honest it is a machine built by humans. Confidence comes from experience in the design and manufacturing of the machine. Double, Triple, quadruple check everything, then check it again. When you push the throttle full forward on the first flight now is not the time for questioning anything.
 
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