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Regretting ordering a slider

Trevor778

Well Known Member
Yes, I think they look much cooler on the ground. But, after today I wish I had ordered a tipper. My day job I'm an AME E, kinda like an A&P that specialises in avionics and electrical. We just call it a little different here in Canada. So today I was sent to look at an rv 7a, this is great cause Im building a 7. The customer was having some auto pilot issues that I assumed were easy to resolve. But with the slider I can finally understand what everyone is talking about when it comes to access behind the panel. I had one leg over the rail, the other over the seat, shoe horned myself between the 2 sticks on my back and was just able to get to the top of the panel. Turns out the connector had been soldered poorly, I simply replaced the connector with a crimp type and we were done. I think a tipper would've made that job a 1 hour ordeal vs a 3.

Anyways, just my little rant. Maybe I should be in the garage building instead.
 
Yup... you could spend many more hours getting water out of the avionics and spending BIG bucks getting them repaired after a good rain storm. :eek: Just install a couple of access panels on the boot cowl with a Slider.
 
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I will do the oposite

I had a tip up, sold it. I will build another one with a slider. I was flying ifr and it took a while to seal the front. I always had water on the avionic when inwas flying ifr. I think that with the big glass panel, i will be able to acess the wiring by removi g the screens

Vinh do
Rv10 c-gmce
 
I have a slider -7, and fly almost weekly with my buddy who flys a tip-up -6. He won't fly if there's any weather, because of the water that drips down onto his avionics through the tip-up joint.

I have a three part panel, divided between the Flight Instruments, the Radio Stack, and the Passenger Glove Box panels. By just removing a couple of screws, I can remove an entire panel for maintenance. Although I still spend a lot of time inverted under the panel, it's only because I'm still limber enough to get down there without too much damage to my body.

In the photo, you can see the joint between the Flight Instrument Panel and the Radio Stack Panel...

1005.jpg
 
Just like DH, I'm planning a segmented panel so that parts/panels can come out. It's all about how you design it.

You won't regret a slider when you're taxing around with the canopy back! :D
 
slider maintenance

Trevor, feel your pain........any of us that have been upside down and over 40, or 180 lbs.....yeah, it's not pretty getting under the panel on a slider.

A 'must have' is a removable passenger stick..... pull out the cushions, throw an old piece of carpet in there, put your tools & flashlite in the footwell etc.
For major jobs, remove one of the seat backs, so you can get your butt or leg into the baggage area for more 'comfort' :)
I sit on the side rail, feet on the wing, and kind of lower myself into the 'tub'. Swivel my head & torso under the panel, and maybe one leg inside for balance, and I'm good for a short session. ( or until I realize what I forgot in my toolbox!)

Sounds to me like you did the right thing, given the problems most guys are talking about with sealing the tipper hinge area...... but hey, it never rains in Maple Ridge, does it????
 
lol, no we get no rain here on the coast.

Maybe 2 nice 10" skyviews will open up the panel a bit. Get those out and there's tons of room
 
Flown friend's - 6 tip up canopy in wet NW Oregon. That was enough. My -6 was a slider with the removable panel. You just sit in the seat let the panel fold down on your lap to work on it, or lay panel on a cushion laid on seat/s. Easy. Done it many times on my -6. Now I do the same on my -7 with a loved slider. Never had a complaint. Just plan for fold down panels. Slider is safer, looks better on the ground and more convenient when at taxi, IMHO, but it is all your call. Have fun either way.
 
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It's different when it's yours

When it is your airplane your motivation and familarity make it not too difficult to work on the back side of a panel. You just have to be patient and think things out. I recently went through a major change in my panel just to replace a SL-40 with an SL-30 and add an indicator. It came out fine. I have no removable panels but on some ocassions I have removed an instrument like the DG or the AI to gain access.

Bob Axsom
 
....after today I wish I had ordered a tipper....
No doubt about it, the -6 series unlike the -7A you talked about does have that main spar to deal with. My -6A has the battery mounted between the rudder pedals. Just to access it, I have to remove the passenger seat so I can stretch out my legs. I can understand how one might feel in that it is a whole lot easier for a person with a small to medium body frame to gain access underneath the instrument panel. I don't know how large or small you happen to be, but that is no comfortable place for a 200 lb.+ person to wedge himself into, especially if the -6 series is like mine, fitted with an oversize instrument panel. Even dealing with that, if I had it to do over, without hesitation I would choose a slider again but that's just the type of decision everyone has to make for themselves.
 
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I don't have any issue with panel access in my slider I'm building.. No Regrets
I built a sub panel that allows me to remove the panel sections from the front, put service loops in the wires.. Wala.. no issue. As you can see in the pix, I also cut access holes in the forward deck bulkhead so I can reach through there too..
th_smallpanel1.jpg

th_smallpanel2.jpg
 
Damaged tip-ups

As someone who foolishly damaged the canopy on my Extra 300L because of momentary inattention, I went with a slider for my -7. Here in Florida we have many days that have winds in excess of 20k, with higher gusts. I can fly safely on such days, but am worried about that big sail, even with the gas struts.

I would like to know, however, how many actual instances a tip up has been caught by the wind or prop blast (my case) and damaged.

Are there many instances of this?
 
Diving into a "never-ending-debate"

Slider is safer, looks better and more convenient...

Give me a break. You may prefer the slider but why is having your field of view blocked (especially in the typical formation sighting position) a safety feature? :eek: Looks better? Sure, on the ground. If you're a "taxi king", I'll agree. Certainly don't see it as better looking in the air. I fact, I'm looking at a recent air-to-air photo taken of me in my tip-up and now on my office wall. It is clear the photo wouldn't have worked with that frickin' slider bar in front. As a result, I like the photo of me close-up better than Paul's in the -8. :p More convenient? Huh? :confused:

The one thing I absolutely insisted on in our -3B build is the tip-over, and thank goodness I did. I love a 360 degree view (except for the roll-bar behind the head). No fastback or slider for me! (Sorry to you guys that haven't kept your flexibility up enough to see 360 degrees but I can even strapped tight.)

The water issue is legitimate, particularly with the original hinges that Mikey has. I've learned to address it successfully, although an unexpected moderate or heavy rain can cause me concern or a rushed trip back to the ramp. I have one of those panel covers and, if there will be significant rain on the ramp or during a flight, I add vinyl tape along the hinge line. Works fine.

So, if you spend most of your time taxing and/or operating (or tied down) in rain, I'd definately recommend the slider. Otherwise, there are pros and cons each way and both benefit from a removable panel. Your preference.
 
Yeah, winds can be an issue, too.

Here in Florida we have many days that have winds in excess of 20k, with higher gusts. I can fly safely on such days, but am worried about that big sail, even with the gas struts.

Good point. I do have to be careful with tip-up and have often operated with 20+kt winds on the ramp. So far, so good. But, you do have to be more careful (I expect) than with a slider. With precautions, I haven't had any real concern in any wind I would consider landing or departing. but I keep my hand on the canopy at all times when it is open in high winds.
 
I'm not really tossing my hat one way or the other, but the slider does have a metal rollbar....versus the tipup which has the rear bulkheads, aluminum

The tip up also has a roll bar (the built up "bow" immediately behind the occupant's heads) and it has proven to be structurally sound.

I've moved this thread to the Never Ending Debates section. :rolleyes:
 
Tip-Up vs Slider

Not going to get into the Tip-Up vs Slider debate but early on in the build I decided that I wanted more access to the rear of the panel (probably after remembering that I am not as svelte and limber as I was when doing F-4J behind the panel work ;))

First panel attempt:

691g8h.jpg


Went to a composite panel with removal panels (8-10 screws and done!)

206klnc.jpg


No final/flying pics available yet but getting closer in this photo. Flying now and panel works well, YMMV.

207t1mw.jpg


Yes, I know, antiquated panel already but round gauges were good enough for my non-electrical beloved Taylorcraft for 60+ years.....
 
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Give me a break. You may prefer the slider but why is having your field of view blocked (especially in the typical formation sighting position) a safety feature? :eek:

Big birds, and parts that fly off the airplane ahead of you, in formation. Just duck behind the rollbar... :D

L.Adamson -- slider & removable panel sections
 
Hello Trevor,

Not to join the debate here but to add a data point anyway?. A Friend had his RV-7 Tip-up on the local ramp (mid Summer) showing us his recently completed panel. Somehow the open canopy focused the sun to a spot on top of the panel, enough to cause smoke to rise. Good thing we were right there.

VAF search showing this thread?. Post # 3 & 4 seem to be relevant. It might be a well known thing for the Tip-up owners (have a slider here) but I didn?t know about it and I don?t see it discussed much?.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=71322&highlight=melting+fabric

pk
 
Slider is safer, looks better and more convenient
Poppycock.

When I bought my tip-up, it was the first tip-up i'd been in, after flying half a dozen other RV's at my home field. The visibility improvement was noticeable. That alone has probably increased my safety, as I won't be losing any other aircraft in blind spots created by canopy bows (anyone hidden by the bow behind my head won't be catching me anyway, right? :).

After flying pretty much only my -6 for a year, I had occasion to hop into the cockpit of a friend's slider -7. I was startled how little space there was when getting in and out of the slider cockpit. With the tip-up open, the entry opening is massive, and you can lean heavily on the rear canopy bow for support. Much more convenient. :)

I guess I have to go fly with Louise...

-Rob
 
Here we have another reason to build a 10. One less choice to make, and griping is totally useless. Oh, there are several types of latches... I know--build a 12!

Bob
 
Do you have any evidence of this?



Sounds like an opinion stated as a fact



Sounds like another opinion.

Nothing wrong with opinions. We all have them, but they may carry more weight if it is made clear that is what they are.

My thoughts exactly, particularly regarding safety...I'd like to see those stats.
 
I really don't know the answer to this one and I'm curious. Not counting the -10 of course, what is the breakdown in the number of sliders vs. tip-ups in Van's own fleet?
 
I really don't know the answer to this one and I'm curious. Not counting the -10 of course, what is the breakdown in the number of sliders vs. tip-ups in Van's own fleet?

I think the only slider that Van's has is the 8.
 
The poster I have from Vans of the RV9 and RV9A are both sliders. Mine is a slider. If I ever upgrade my panel I will make it in removable sections. Big EFIS screens sure do make for easier access though.
 
The poster I have from Vans of the RV9 and RV9A are both sliders....
If that is so, your observation and this image snapped at AirVenture '09 begs a fundamental question.
If the tip-up is so great, exactly WHY does Van's seem to mostly choose to install the slider
instead of the tip-up on aircraft constructed for its own fleet?

2zohu01.jpg
 
access

Has anyone put access panels on the front in front of the windshield to get into the area just behind the firewall. What are the trade-offs?
 
If the tip-up is so great, exactly WHY does Van's seem to mostly choose to install the slider
instead of the tip-up on aircraft constructed for its own fleet?

2zohu01.jpg

I'd guess for the exact reason shown in your photo. They are marketing the planes ON THE GROUND. I'll agree that sliders look cooler ON THE GROUND. Sliders are better for leaving the cockpit open for the "unwashed masses" to paw around the plane and because of the wind issue. Again, if your primary mission is to taxi and display on the ground, I think the slider wins hands down. If the primary mission is to fly, I'll take the tip-up.
 
If that is so, your observation and this image snapped at AirVenture '09 begs a fundamental question.
If the tip-up is so great, exactly WHY does Van's seem to mostly choose to install the slider
instead of the tip-up on aircraft constructed for its own fleet?

2zohu01.jpg

This aircraft is not from Van's fleet. Van's has a policy to not bring tail draggers to air shows due to visibility. I think this is Mikes trainer.
 
Access Panels

Has anyone put access panels on the front in front of the windshield to get into the area just behind the firewall. What are the trade-offs?

I have been reading these forums and visiting web sites for a long time, and I believe Dan Checkoway's RV-7 was the first one that I remember having access panels in front of the windshield and behind the firewall as you describe. There may have been others before him, but his is the first I remember.

And I believe there are several others who have done the same thing.

P.S. FWIW, his RV-7 is a tip-up.
 
....If the primary mission is to fly, I'll take the tip-up.
Made up minds are not likely to be changed and we ALL agree our primary mission is to fly yet I'd be willing to bet every RV ever built spends a LOT MORE time sitting on the ground than aloft. :) Once our minds are made up it is only natural to resist the alternatives, myself included.

Van's says the slider "provides better ventilation on the ground, and allows the pilot to taxi in with an arm over the rail, thereby making him (or her) "cooler" in two ways." Men tend to be visual creatures and it was this long time photo on Van's website that finally convinced me to build an RV back in 2000. It was the slider that did it:

mj4s5t.jpg

Ain't she purdy?​

I'm all for the coolness factor and in keeping with that sentiment, lets be honest about something else here Louise. There is something dorky about taxiing about while one hand is clutching the tip-up. Heck, my avatar would not even be possible sitting in a tip-up. :)

But the slider also sports other more utilitarian advantages seldom mentioned. Unlike the tip-up, there are no struts and some designs have been reported to need periodic maintenance or even replacement. When you open the slider, there is zero potential for any water to find its way behind the instrument panel. Those points have been talked to death. What is not talked about very often (if ever) is this. What the slider does have is a non-magnetic brace and that brace happens to be an ideal place to hang the wet compass. Now consider that sturdy steel rollbar. Those who are inclined to favor the tip-up see a visual obstruction. Many slider types see something else entirely. Grab handles mounted to it greatly add to balance and stability while a pilot or passenger is engaged in ingress and egress. Then there is the unsung utility of the overhead canopy latch. In flight, it is a perfectly positioned, ever ready handhold much like clutching an overhead strap on a moving bus and that latch is instantly available as something to grab onto such as when shifting around in your seat or wanting to sit more upright. Can't do all that with a tip-up. Add it up. The slider option offers the pilot a non-magnetic brace to attach the compass, an option to install pair of grab handles for enhanced stability, and a convenient canopy latch to grab onto as the in-flight need arises.

3gcgj.jpg
 
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Made up minds are not likely to be changed and we ALL agree our primary mission is to fly yet I'd be willing to bet every RV ever built spends a LOT MORE time sitting on the ground than aloft. :) Once our minds are made up it is only natural to resist the alternatives, myself included.

Van's says the slider "provides better ventilation on the ground, and allows the pilot to taxi in with an arm over the rail, thereby making him (or her) "cooler" in two ways." Men tend to be visual creatures and it was this long time photo on Van's website that finally convinced me to build an RV back in 2000. It was the slider that did it:


I'm all for the coolness factor and in keeping with that sentiment, lets be honest about something else here Louise. There is something dorky about taxiing about while one hand is clutching the tip-up. Heck, my avatar would not even be possible sitting in a tip-up. :)

But the slider also sports other more utilitarian advantages seldom mentioned. Unlike the tip-up, there are no struts and some designs have been reported to need periodic maintenance or even replacement. When you open the slider, there is zero potential for any water to find its way behind the instrument panel. Those points have been talked to death. What is not talked about very often (if ever) is this. What the slider does have is a non-magnetic brace and that brace happens to be an ideal place to hang the wet compass. Now consider that sturdy steel rollbar. Those who are inclined to favor the tip-up see a visual obstruction. Many slider types see something else entirely. Grab handles mounted to it greatly add to balance and stability while a pilot or passenger is engaged in ingress and egress. Then there is the unsung utility of the overhead canopy latch. In flight, it is a perfectly positioned, ever ready handhold much like clutching an overhead strap on a moving bus and that latch is instantly available as something to grab onto such as when shifting around in your seat or wanting to sit more upright. Can't do all that with a tip-up. Add it up. The slider option offers the pilot a non-magnetic brace to attach the compass, an option to install pair of grab handles for enhanced stability, and a convenient canopy latch to grab onto as the in-flight need arises.

Ok...I admit it....I made the wrong choice 13 years ago when choosing the tip-up version of my RV-6. The past dozen years of RVating have been an exercise in futile pursuit of coolness. :p

Can't we all just get along??? :D
 
Ok...I admit it....I made the wrong choice 13 years ago when choosing the tip-up version of my RV-6. The past dozen years of RVating have been an exercise in futile pursuit of coolness. :p

Can't we all just get along??? :D

I am truly sorry you have suffered so, Sam. Some people just are not meant to be cool. :)

I love ALL Rv's, even the ones other people own. So, I will not try justify my equipment choices because of what I happen to own. I see that a lot here. Heck, I used to have a BMA unit, so what do I know?
Frankly, sometimes I wish I had a tipup, sometimes I wish I had a fixed pitch, sometimes I wish I had a light 0320, but I will stop at wishing for a nose wheel, just can't go there. Ha!:D
But I am happy to fly, chat, party, or simply hang out with RV people. They are the best regardless of what they own or like in thier choices.
 
What we learned..

Actually, this thread has been VERY helpful to me and I'm sure to others. The canopy choice is personal, but we do have things to think about:

Slider drivers should think about panels that come apart or are in sections. I'm working on my fuse, and I'll be making that change! Visibility in the air is an issue, but maybe a small one. I was planning on hanging a mag compass on the roll bar, but maybe not. Hand holds for in/out look cool and helpful.

Tip up folks need to think about weather proofing avionics. Wind on the ground is an issue, with a big sail held down with small gas tubes. Rolling upside down in the air has good visibility, but rolling upside down on the ground has no forward roll bar. And Canopy Cracker is a must.

Guy like to look cool on the ground.
Chicks like to see well in the air.

:cool:

Dkb
 
Avionics should be pretty maintenance free!

What is all this "getting under the panel" about???

What would you want to get under the panel for? :confused: (unless you made some sub-standard installations that you need to attend to every now and than!!?) I think he electronics are very reliable :cool: and "feel no need to get under the panel" at the moment and hopefully not in the next couple of years, either.

This may vary for others. :D

Rgards, Tonny.
 
What is all this "getting under the panel" about???

It's all about "modernization". How long do you think you "state of the art" panel is going to remain "state of the art"?

Example: When I built my RV-6 in 1993, Loran C was the latest affordable navigation system. Then came GPS. Later my gyro horizon gave way to my Dynon. My old King transponder gave way to my new mode "S" Trig. It is a never ending upgrade.
 
You are considering the wrong kind of tip over canopy. Try the Showplanes tip over conversion. You have a fiberglass cover for your behind the panel valuables, but it's easily accessible....
 
My regret

What is all this "getting under the panel"
Rgards, Tonny.
I am an EE and thought I would never need to get into my panel after I closed it up. In the last 7 years there was something every year that caused me to be back under there. Each time I wished I had thought to build my slider panel in three sub panels. Some day I will do it over with sub panels. Building without sub panels was my big mistake on my rv7 slider.
 
acc?ss behind panel

Has anyone built access hatches in front of the canopy and behind the firewall? I would love to have good access to the areas just on the cockpit side of the firewall.
 
Has anyone built access hatches in front of the canopy and behind the firewall? I would love to have good access to the areas just on the cockpit side of the firewall.

Yes Jay,
there are even some photos posted. This idea looks great to me also. It has been done successfully by several builders.
 
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