Future builder decisions

First off, I?m itching to start building my plane. I?ve been thinking about building an RV for at least the last 10 years, and have been on this site ?researching? for the last year or so.

First a little history. My dad has owned a few different power planes and I flew with him quite a bit when I was in my teens to early 20?s (I?m 50 now). He also owned a glider/sailplane for a few years and we both got our private rating back in the early 80?s. I have a little over 100 hours in gliders. Also, I started taking power lessons and got up to about 10 hours (solo?d), but had to quit due to unexpected financial issues.

Fast forward almost 30 years. Now I?m married with 3 kids ranging from 13 to 17. My wife is onboard with me building a plane, but she says she wants to get her license too, just in case we are flying and I have a heart attack or something. I think it?s great that she wants to get her license.

Now for my plan. I love the -8, and it?s the one I really want to build. I?ve been to Oshkosh twice and Dan King let me sit in his 8, and was very nice to answer all my questions. He said I should build what I want! Also, I?m 6?5?, so I thought the 8 would be the best fit?

I?m sure I would be happy with a 7 too, and if my wife, and possibly kids, are going to get interested in aviation, it would be better if they were ?up front? to see how things work.

I would start flight training (most likely at Chino CA) at some point in the build with the hope of being able to do my own test flights etc. I just don?t know how feasible that is for a low time pilot. Insurance is also an issue I?ve been researching. Could I even get insurance for an -8, with only my flight training, tail wheel, and transition training under my belt?

Also, the money I have to devote to all this will necessitate a 4+ year build, since I have to factor in the cost of flight training etc.

So, I thought that maybe I should build a -12 first, and get some time in that, assuming it would be easier to get insurance for, and then build the -8 later. But, the -12 isn?t really what I want, and I could probably build a budget -7, or -8 for close to the $65k a -12 would cost.

So, I keep going around and around, 8, 7, 12, 8?

I?m very interested in your comments and suggestions.

Mike

You are asking quite a few questions that don't have any correct answers, only the answer that is best for you. You'll get a lot of opinions from others, but they don't count. The decision that makes you and your spouse happy is all that matters.

Based upon your age, if it were me, I would build the 7 or 8 first. Unless you really enjoy building and can wait to fly the 7 or 8 when you're 60.

I would also talk to an insurance agent to include that data in your decision making process. Most people are quite surprized at the cost of insuring an experimental. You didn't indicate whether or not you wanted a trike or tail dragger. That's another insurance impact. As well as a low time pilot and a student pilot. I wouldn't let the cost of insurance stop your dream, just have the data to make the best decision for you.

As far as the 7/8 decision, your spouse will probably drive that decision. The isolation of the passenger in the back seat of an 8 has sold a lot 7s.

Something that you may want to consider is purchasing a 152, 172, or a Cherokee for both you and your wife can fly while getting your license and to build hours. I had a Cherokee 180 for three years that I was able sell at a break even price while I started my RV-10 build. With two people renting aircraft, owning for a little while may make more fiscal sense.

Good Luck!

bob

FlyBoy8 said:

First off, I?m itching to start building my plane. I?ve been thinking about building an RV for at least the last 10 years, and have been on this site ?researching? for the last year or so.

Fast forward almost 30 years. Now I?m married with 3 kids ranging from 13 to 17. My wife is onboard with me building a plane, but she says she wants to get her license too, just in case we are flying and I have a heart attack or something. I think it?s great that she wants to get her license.

So, I keep going around and around, 8, 7, 12, 8?

Click to expand...

Mike, First off you need to define your new plane's "mission"! Will you be mostly a local area guy ($100 hambergers etc.), or will you use the plane for mostly cross country trips etc., etc.?

If your going to be a "local" guy with a few cross country trips every now and then and due to the fact your wife wants to learn to fly too, I think the 12 would suite you needs very well. The 12 will require a lot less build time than your other choices, only 600 to 800 hours vs 1500-2000 for the other RV's. The good news with the 12 is you get your plane in the air really fast. The bad news is you'll "out build your billfold"!

The 8 is surley a great plane but, if your wife is like mine, she'll get tired of looking at the back of your head in a short time! The side by side 7 or 9 may be valid choices for you too. The 7 is aerobatic but the 9 is more forgiving and probably somewhat eaisier to fly for low time pilots.

My advise, define your mission and then build the plane that best fits your needs. The most important thing is getting started, "Just Do It"!

Hope this helps

Welcome to the best site on the web. I sent you a PM.

The -12 is a sweet-flying plane, with excellent visibility. And it's quick to build.

It has its points....

Dave

Thanks for the responses so far...

I will definately be doing some cross country flying. I'm looking forward to flying all over the west, and even to Oshkosh some day. I'll be taking my, build and flight training extremely seriously.

BTW... its tail dragger all the way, unless it's a 12 of course, and aerobatics would be a nice option.

I know it's a lot of questions that no one can really answer for me, but I value the input of those that have been there and done it.

Because of my height 6'5" (210lbs), I'm a little concerned about the side by side seating of the 7, and 12. I sat in a guys -9 a while back and had to lean way forward to get the canopy closed (slider), but once closed I did have a "little" clearance over my head. I'm sure with some seat adjustment I would be fine.

And when I look at the price of the rotax 912, and consider that I could get a TMX IO-360 for close to the same price it doesn't make the 12 an easier decision.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.
Mike

I think we need to do a welfare check on Mike Starkey for not being the 1st to welcome him to VAF!
PS I luv ya', Stark.

Its all about life style

twsurveyor said:

Mike, First off you need to define your new plane's "mission"!

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This is the only thing you need to focus on.

The answer is a lifestyle question. Bobs summary is right on the money its about some really private motivations, like deep down, "D.amn it I am 50 and I want the plane I want, my wife can just lump it, she got the house she wanted and that cost twice as much"

Or like me, the plane is all about my wife. She is enjoying building it as much if not more than I am. (she is also not doing ALL the work I am doing) I was an RV-4 guy till I realised, "hang on, so I am going to be going up, every weekend by myself, with her on the odd occasion and not really traveling any where or not showing her how to fly? I am no thappy about that." Caroline and I do everything together and even thought she is a completely opposite personality to me we end up enjoying sharing the extremes of our charater with each other.

I also wanted to travel all over Australia and it needed to be a long haul, comfortable aircraft. So really the -9 is the perfect choice right?

But then at heart I am a -4 guy so what do you get if you put the two together? The -7.

Tada decision made.

Just sit for a moment in a chair and just go throught the experience of owning the thing for years and years and years. Play out the story board in your head again and again until your satisfied it plays the way you think will work for you.

In the end your compromises will be based on limitations you want to accept, you will include elements you cannot let go off. (the thing is going to be red, I don't care what she says!!) and the final item will be a balance that makes you feel like all the work will be worth it in the end.

PS. I love the "what if you have a heart attack" conversation No one says, "Yeah but what if we are coming home from the airstrip, driving down the freeway and I have a heart attack?" No one says "Geesh, I never thought about that, well we better install dual controlls on the car, I don't feel safe any more knowing that"

....Just secretly some wives say that just so that they can give themselves the excuse to do what your doing, what ever makes them happy I say ;-)

Great topic y'all. I'm in a bit of the same quandary: the -12 is so much more the sensible choice, the -8 taildragger would be a bucket list item. Not a factor yet for me as I can't start building just yet anyway but it's quite a decision ;-)

I'm not doubting the -12 is a terrific airplane, it is, been in one twice. I just absolutely delight in the tandem, taildragger -8. Dang you VanG ;-)

This may, or maynot, be a little off topic, but can those people who prefer the tandem please tell me why??? I will state right now I am building a 7 and never considered a tandem. I understand that many people like them, what I cant understand is why. As far as performance is concerned there is very little difference, if any. As far as aerobatic performance goes there is no difference. As I said I know there are people who love tandems, what I would really like to understand is why??
Maybe it will help somebody in the future make the choice as to what RV to choose.

voodooskin said:

Great topic y'all. I'm in a bit of the same quandary: the -12 is so much more the sensible choice, the -8 taildragger would be a bucket list item. Not a factor yet for me as I can't start building just yet anyway but it's quite a decision ;-)

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It is indeed! Van designed great airplanes, so we each have the excruciating luxury of choosing which one is best for us. There's months and even years worth of reading on this site to help you first make that decision and then build your choice.

Welcome to VAF, Joe! You'll enjoy your time here. Consider contributing to DR using the "donate" link near the top of the left margin. If you donate before you order your first kit, it is statistically proven that you are more likely both to start and to finish your project.

See you around.

--
Stephen

PIN 37 said:

This may, or maynot, be a little off topic, but can those people who prefer the tandem please tell me why??? I will state right now I am building a 7 and never considered a tandem. I understand that many people like them, what I cant understand is why. As far as performance is concerned there is very little difference, if any. As far as aerobatic performance goes there is no difference. As I said I know there are people who love tandems, what I would really like to understand is why??
Maybe it will help somebody in the future make the choice as to what RV to choose.

Click to expand...

First off, welcome Mike, sounds like you are heading in the right direction. I'm building a -7, but deep down I would rather be building an -8. The main reason for the -7 for me was for the passenger experience. Almost everyone enjoys sitting up front better than the back. If I was selfish though, it'd be an -8 for sure. The centerline seating...extra shoulder room...'fighter plane' feel...are all pretty cool to me. I will tell you, with your size, a -7 will be tight. I'm 5'9" 180 lbs and its cozy for me in the shoulders. I agree that this decision is usually driven by the wife and rightfully so if you plan to travel with her. You cant go wrong either way...they all fly great! Good luck.

FlyBoy8 said:

Thanks for the responses so far...
Because of my height 6'5" (210lbs), I'm a little concerned about the side by side seating of the 7, and 12. I sat in a guys -9 a while back and had to lean way forward to get the canopy closed (slider), but once closed I did have a "little" clearance over my head. I'm sure with some seat adjustment I would be fine.

Click to expand...

Mike,

I started an RV-10 awhile back and abandoned it when the economy tanked, took a major pay cut (UAL Bankruptcy) and my side business (commercial construction) slowed.

Now that things are back on track, my wife and I are in a similar position. Though we haven't started yet, we did decide on the bird.

Being an ex USAF pilot, the RV-8 brings back great memories. I never mentioned my preference to my wife figuring it would influence her choice. We talked about not building an RV-10 because our kids are almost gone. So, based on all the comments here, we had pretty well decided on an RV-7.

Then one afternoon she told me she wanted to see what the RV-7 felt like versus the RV-10 . Living in the Portland area it was not too difficult to get her a ride. When she got done she asked if she could go for a ride in the RV-8A parked next door. She sweet talked herself into a ride and as you can tell from the picture below, the "grin" says it all. She got out of the airplane and gave me a great big hug and announced we are building an RV-8. Surprised the heck out of me.

So the moral of the story is go out and find someone who will do a "spousal approval" flight. You might be surprised by what you learn.

In the "for what it is worth" column. I am 6' and about 215 with broad shoulders. The cross countries I've done with my friends in RV-6/7s has been great fun, but for me it does get a little tight compared to the RV-8.

Oh, my other advice; don't brainstorm this to death. I did and ended up abandoning my project. Big mistake. Make the decision and never look back.

Scott

First off I would like to welcome you to the VAF forums! This place has made me feel at home in the Vans world. You will begin to make friends and learn more than you can ever imagine.....

With that being said here is my $0.02, I'm 18 years old and luckily I dont have to take in consideration THE WIFE as some of you old timers do But I will say this, if your wife is going to help you out in the build and want to be apart of it then yes you should really take her opinion into you decission. If not then of course go with the -8. I think I can speak for everone when I say what ever you do end up picking will be great because it is coming from a wonderful company. However, although I am young I still think this applys to any aviator: Go after your dreams man, dont look back! I can venture to guess that if you got your wife in the RV-8 she would be all smiles like Sleepy's wife was.

I too had a small doubt that the RV-8 maybe was to much for a beginner to handle, or that I will miss the side-by-side experience but I think people that havent tried tandem just cant make a judgment. The moment you get in a tandem airplane it really opens your eyes to a whole new level of fun flying. WHO WOULDNT WANT TO FEEL LIKE A WANNA BE FIGHTER PILOT IN THEIR FREE TIME!

All in all, best of luck on the airplane choice and please let us know what you choose. I also commend your wife for wanting to get her private that would add brownie points in my book!