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Interested in the RV-6 or 7, but the wife wants options

B

bottlerocket

Member
Help me out guys. I've wanted a plane since I first flew a rent-a-wreck 172 at KADS and now that my wife and I have the means I would love to own my very own single. Most of the guys I know around here either have an RV of some sort or another kit plane for the fun-to-fly factor I'm sure as well as other reasons. I've been doing my homework, I'm sure my wife had an idea but I finally approached her about it tonight so we could have a good discussion about our options.

I obviously brought to the table the RV6A/7A and told her about it. Her only GA experience was in a 172R. When she heard it was only a 2 seater she then asked about the kids we want (wow that escalated quickly).


But to be fair I want to explore her suggestion of looking for a 4 seater. The 10 is out of our price range at the moment. Looking to stay around $60k or less for our first endeavor. Main uses would be short trips a few hours away, burger runs and fly-ins when able. What would be y'all's second option behind an RV6/7 in this range with 4 seats?

*edit* oh and I'm 6'4 so that could be a factor in my choice as well. never tried to fit in a Mooney
 
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My second option would be a Legacy 4P, but they cost more than the RV10 :eek: :D!

Buy the 6 or 7 and fly it till the kids come.

Let me be the first to say......Welcome!

(Hi Mike S. :))
 
DaleB said:
RV now, sell it and buy something else when you need something bigger?
Click to expand...

That was my response, but kids in 2-3 years and lap passengers for a little while after that would result in owning one for just a few years. Building is out of the question at that point even.
 
The reality is, there really isn't anything available with 4 seats, that comes anywhere close to the RV's performance and fun factor, in that price range.

There are 4 seat airplanes that start to get close in cruise performance, but one thing to keep in mind... any airplane in your price range that is on the higher performance side has the potential to nickle and dime you (that's $500 and $1000 in airplane terms) to death keeping it flying and getting it through an annual inspection every year.
If an RV is not right for you now, my suggestion would be, find something you can easily afford, and just get some experience being an airplane owner, and have fun with it together. This will give you some breathing room for surprises that can come along. Once you have been an owner for a while, you will have the experience to make good decisions in moving up to something else.
A personal choice for something with 4 seats that is kind of / sort of like an RV would be a Grumman Tiger (with a Grumman Cheetah coming in second).
They have somewhat sporty handling (by C-172 standards) and good cruise speed. They are not what I would consider to be a true 4 seater for 4 adult people, but very few lower performance 4 seaters are. 2 adults and two smaller kids would be perfect.
 
Older Bonanza will cruise almost as fast as the RV and will haul 4, and you can find them for your purchase budget price range. Won't be nearly as much fun as an RV and maintenance/repair costs will definitely be higher.
 
Grumman Tiger

Not an RV, but would meet your needs and (relatively) inexpensive to own.
 
Christopher, I put exactly $60K down on my -10 five years ago and my local bank financed the rest and for the most part, let me set the terms.

It's free and clear now and I'm oh-so in love with it.

Best,
 
krwalsh said:
I happen to know of a Cozy Mk-IV for sale right now for $50k...
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The Cozy Mk IV would be tight for anyone but Nat Puffer, let alone for someone 6' 4"... :D

I would try and stay in the experimental side of life, just for costs, ease of upgrade and maintenance.

The high performance stuff outside of the RV world for more than 2 is pricey. Heck other than perhaps a Tailwind, high performance experimentals for two can get pricy if you're not considering an RV. Not that RV's are cheap...

If you're used to a 172, you might think in terms of a Glastar with jump seats. You can get a higher cruise than what you're used to and with the extra space stuff kids and luggage for a while. A Velocity would work if you could find one in the range but they present a whole set of different issues that need to be considered. Yelp...we're spoiled to RV's...

It's hard to beat an RV and not just flying qualities. Insurance, loan costs, etc. can be cheaper on an RV than on a really used 172 (although I was considering really early model 172s).

Bob
 
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Not quite as fast as an RV but how about Mooney?

If you decide to go non-RV for a while I've got a very nice Mooney M20-C for sale at $40,000 Can. Not much paint but has 4 seats and hauls 675 lbs with full fuel. We kept getting teased about our "camo" paint job so decided to add the invasion stripes for visibility... Use the other $20,000 in your budget to get a start on building your RV-10...

I just finished an RV-8 and can't afford 2 airplanes... I hate to sell, it's been good to us...

My partner is 6' 2" and 240 lbs, and has lots of room. I can't see 6' 4" being a problem but you'd have to try it.

PM me if you want more details.



 
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Christopher,

Van's sales pitch has been "Total Performance" and once you fly one you will see why. For personal flying there are RVs and then there is everything else. It is good that you have the support of your wife in your endevor. It makes for going to the hangar much eazier. For now a 6, 7, or a 9 would fit your life style very well.

Cheers,
 
Experience with all of these: In the certified world the Tiger is a great choice. Simple, relatively inexpensive. It will have crummy avionics that will be outrageously expensive to replace. You would LOVE a Bonanza but not at annual time and not at fillup time. The Continental likes to be run hard so 14-15 GPH, but a smooooooooooth ride and VERY roomy for 4 people. Parts costs are ridiculous. (Had one before my Rv12). Mooneys fly great but are a b$$$$ to work on. You'll be happy with a good used RV.
 
Maint and Ins

I've always thought the Bellanca Super Viking looked real attractive... on paper.
Fast and seemingly cheap to buy:40-80K.
But like the Bonanzas and Mooneys, retractable gear aircraft get real expensive to maintain (and insure).

Also, one of the primary driving factors for insurance cost is the number of seats.

Just throwing these out there as things to consider when determining your mission. I hear a lot of people fly solo 90-99% of the time (myself included) and after buying that 4 or 6 seater, they come to find out it's cost prohibitive to fly solo and consequently just don't fly much.

Buy for the trips you will do, not the trip you may do someday.


my $.02
 
6 or 7

I think my attitude is different to most people on this forum probably because my previous wife did not want to fly at all. Having moved on I now have a lady who occasionally comes flying with me so I would not base any decision on an aeroplane on my wife's wishes.

Of course your lady might be much more of a flying companion so her input would be worth considering. So, I first establish whether she is likely to fly with you much, if she is likely to want to fly with you with your children on board.

As this could take some time to work out buy the 6 or 7 and the downgrade:), to a 4 seater!!
 
If a 7 is what you want

If a 6 or 7 is in your budget, and it's what you want, then go for it.
Most of the people I know with 4 seat aircraft have two or more seats vacant almost every time they go flying. If the situation changes, and a 4 seater is required, then get one at that time.

If you really want a RV-10 from the start, wait until the budget allows it.
 
The other option

bottlerocket said:
Looking to stay around $60k or less for our first endeavor. Main uses would be short trips a few hours away, burger runs and fly-ins when able. What would be y'all's second option behind an RV6/7 in this range with 4 seats?

*edit* oh and I'm 6'4 so that could be a factor in my choice as well. never tried to fit in a Mooney
Click to expand...

Well, you might consider finding a like-minded aviator, in the same locality, interested in an RV-10, and go 50-50 on a partnership....
Then, the 60K gets you in the ballpark (ok, cheap seats of the ballpark :D)
 
I have found that airplanes are not good family transportation. If you buy a 4 or 6 seater, 97% of the time you will be flying alone. 2.9999% of the time you will be traveling with your wife, or with just one of your kids. The other 0.0001% will be with the family. I bought my first plane to fit the whole family. The only time the entire family ever went up in it was the first ride. After that the reality of everyone having a busy schedule and other interests took over. You can't count on the weather for planning vacations. The truth is that flying is my hobby, not their hobby. They are not going to go out of their way to do it. I fit in lots of quality 1 on 1 time taking one of the kids here or there, and my wife and I love our weekend trips (with no room to take anyone else) Only a few times have I wished that I had more than 2 seats.
 
Thanks for all the prompt replies!

I appreciate all the reasons given to go for an RV, and believe me most of those I have explained to my wife already. I think the hard sell is going to be the performance side of things really. To her we can easily get a 172 and call it good, but in the end she will have never flown in an RV and not realize what she's missing until its too late.

The M20C definitely crossed my mind as well as the Comanche 250 and the 177.

The main purpose of this question I posed was to pick out maybe one or two of the "best" alternatives with 4 seats to pose as options for my wife and really examine the numbers side of it; get accurate quotes on financing, insurance, mx, etc. so that we can have an educated talk about it, not just what-ifs.

Again all the input is greatly appreciated! Right now those 3 planes I listed are what are on the top of my "others" list so we can side-by-side compare options of the RV6/7 and certified 4 place singles.
 
pierre smith said:
Christopher, I put exactly $60K down on my -10 five years ago and my local bank financed the rest and for the most part, let me set the terms.

It's free and clear now and I'm oh-so in love with it.

Best,
Click to expand...

$60k is the realistic number we'd like to have as total cost with down+financed.

jcaplins said:
I've always thought the Bellanca Super Viking looked real attractive... on paper.
Fast and seemingly cheap to buy:40-80K.
But like the Bonanzas and Mooneys, retractable gear aircraft get real expensive to maintain (and insure).

Also, one of the primary driving factors for insurance cost is the number of seats.

Just throwing these out there as things to consider when determining your mission. I hear a lot of people fly solo 90-99% of the time (myself included) and after buying that 4 or 6 seater, they come to find out it's cost prohibitive to fly solo and consequently just don't fly much.

Buy for the trips you will do, not the trip you may do someday.


my $.02
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These are the exact reasons I want to check into the options for the 4 seaters to compare insurance and upkeep. I wouldn't be flying solo much at all, I'd venture to say 69% of my flying would be with my wife.

WAM120RV said:
I think my attitude is different to most people on this forum probably because my previous wife did not want to fly at all. Having moved on I now have a lady who occasionally comes flying with me so I would not base any decision on an aeroplane on my wife's wishes.

Of course your lady might be much more of a flying companion so her input would be worth considering. So, I first establish whether she is likely to fly with you much, if she is likely to want to fly with you with your children on board.

As this could take some time to work out buy the 6 or 7 and the downgrade:), to a 4 seater!!
Click to expand...

Thats the plan! Hopefully it can work out that way
 
Involving the wife....uh oh

WAM120RV said:
I would not base any decision on an aeroplane on my wife's wishes.
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I have a mate who wanted to buy a caravan after retiring a year ago.

However his wife was not overly enthusiastic about the whole caravan thing. It was his dream, not hers. But he figured he could get her on side by involving her in the purchase. Big big mistake.

He wanted something relatively inexpensive, a pop-top, light, and simple with low maintenance, that he could take to little fishing spots down unsealed roads and didn't need a prime mover to pull it around. She wanted a toilet, a shower, airconditioning, big kitchen, enough beds for an orphanage, all the bells and whistles. In the end what she wanted was a house on wheels....and that is what he ended up buying. Cost him a fortune and he had to sink more money into a massive 4x4 to haul it around.

They went away on their first caravaning trip which lasted for 3 months and after that she never wanted to go again. That left him with no option but to sell the house on wheels and cop a massive loss. One might say that in the end he was not a happy camper. :D

Is this little anecdote pertinent to this thread.....maybe, or maybe not....but I'm sure it's a common story. ;)
 
The Glasair Sportsman can be a pretty decent 4-seater, especially now that Glasair is offering a rear-facing back seat option which really improves headroom.

There's a Sportsman for sale right now at $120K - stock O-360 and Hartzell C/S prop, VFR panel. That'll get you 130-135kts, 1000lbs of useful load, and will get you in and out of some pretty tight places.

We're building our Sportsman with 2 seats, but reserve the right to install the other two seats of some sort of justification presents itself.
 
Canadian_JOY said:
There's a Sportsman for sale right now at $120K - stock O-360 and Hartzell C/S prop, VFR panel.
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This what the OP said in post #1.

"Looking to stay around $60k or less for our first endeavor".

And he stresses the point again in post #24.

"$60k is the realistic number we'd like to have as total cost with down+financed".

His budget seems clear enough to me. :rolleyes:
 
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Is your wife a pilot too? If so, get her a ride in an RV and the decision will make itself. If she's not, I'd be very surprised if her flying with you 69% (that's an awfully precise number) of the time lasts beyond the first flying season anyway.

If you do end up looking for four seaters, many good ones have been suggested. For a couple more, consider a Cessna 170, or a Bellanca Cruisemaster. They're both a little less common, but both are reasonable performers for what you describe... Two parents plus two babies-through-teenagers. The Cruisemaster came with a wide variety of engines, they would cruise at a speed that matched the HP on the nose... 150HP = 150mph. Neat looking, too, with the triple tail.
 
Snowflake said:
Is your wife a pilot too? If so, get her a ride in an RV and the decision will make itself. If she's not, I'd be very surprised if her flying with you 69% (that's an awfully precise number) of the time lasts beyond the first flying season anyway.

If you do end up looking for four seaters, many good ones have been suggested. For a couple more, consider a Cessna 170, or a Bellanca Cruisemaster. They're both a little less common, but both are reasonable performers for what you describe... Two parents plus two babies-through-teenagers. The Cruisemaster came with a wide variety of engines, they would cruise at a speed that matched the HP on the nose... 150HP = 150mph. Neat looking, too, with the triple tail.
Click to expand...

Shes not a pilot, but shes into flying.
 
Keeper

Hi,

Well she is definately a keeper if she like flying!

There is one sure thing in life if you try to please everybody you will end up pleasing nobody especially yourself. Perhaps I was lucky with non flying wife it made all the decisions mine.

Recently though we decided to buy a new car, she wanted a BMW, I wanted a Jaguar. We tried a couple of BM's, nice but vastly over priced, we tried the Jaguar, now the Jaguar is sitting on our drive, I did not have to talk her into it the car did the talking and the 10k we kept in the bank with a better car.

There was no way we were going to have a BMW when my family used to work for Jaguar and they are designed only a few miles from where I live!!

Anyway, the contest between a 172 and an RV is completely unfair once she experiences both types she will probably realise which is the best buy.

BTW the wife loves the Jag, the comments about it she gets from people at the golf and tennis club. The same thing happens with an RV admiring and envious looks.......a 172.......Nah!!!
 
Captain Avgas said:
I have a mate who wanted to buy a caravan after retiring a year ago.

However his wife was not overly enthusiastic about the whole caravan thing. It was his dream, not hers. But he figured he could get her on side by involving her in the purchase. Big big mistake.

He wanted something relatively inexpensive, a pop-top, light, and simple with low maintenance, that he could take to little fishing spots down unsealed roads and didn't need a prime mover to pull it around. She wanted a toilet, a shower, airconditioning, big kitchen, enough beds for an orphanage, all the bells and whistles. In the end what she wanted was a house on wheels....and that is what he ended up buying. Cost him a fortune and he had to sink more money into a massive 4x4 to haul it around.

They went away on their first caravaning trip which lasted for 3 months and after that she never wanted to go again. That left him with no option but to sell the house on wheels and cop a massive loss. One might say that in the end he was not a happy camper. :D

Is this little anecdote pertinent to this thread.....maybe, or maybe not....but I'm sure it's a common story. ;)
Click to expand...

Some things are family business, some things are not. A cabin cruiser is a family boat, a sail boat is not. A family van is a family car (obviously), a Porsche is not. The only family airplane I can think of is a B737 or larger that includes a captain and cabin attendants on it's way to Costa del Sol :)
 
Same page!!

Svingen

I could not have put this better myself we are definately on the same page!!!

If you fly into the LAA rally contact me I will buy you a lager!!
 
What the heck, everybody else is in on this thread, so I might as well toss my .02 in as well;)

I have a couple of thoughts. First, as many have noted, you will be flying by yourself quite a bit; probably more than you think right now. I say this from experience. I started flying just before we started our family (my 25 year old son, who is now an RCAF instructor pilot, likes to tell people that he was born because of a deal between his parents; his dad got a plane and his mom got a baby. Kind of a true story), and 27 years later I can tell you that the plans (dreams) of many family trips, etc didn't really materialize. My kids did grow up flying with me, usually 1 at a time. Based on that experience, I second the opinion of those who suggest buying the RV, and on the occasions that you actually need four seats, renting a 172 or Cherokee.

Further to that, if your wife is genuinely into flying, as you have said, one ride in an RV and she will be spoiled for riding around in a 172 or anything remotely similar. It's like getting out of an old minivan and into a new Porsche. No comparison. Trust those who tell you a ride in an RV is the ultimate sales tool; if your GA flying experience has been only in aircraft like the 172 there is just no way to adequately explain the difference. It just has to be experienced, and you (and she!) will never look at flying the same way again.

Now, if you just HAVE to have a 4-seater, I would echo those who have suggested the Grumman Tiger. My last certified airplane prior to getting my RV was a Tiger, and I loved it. If a 172 is an old minivan and the RV is a Porsche, the Tiger is more like a 15 year old BMW; a much sportier version of a 4-seater with great visibility and much more responsive handling. Quite a bit quicker on the same hp than my old Cherokee 180, and a lot faster than a 172; I used to flight plan 130 kt, and lots of people with cleaner airframes than mine get closer to 140. Still a very simple (read: cheap to maintain) aircraft with zero maintenance (virtually) spring landing gear and a fixed pitch prop, and surprisingly roomy inside. If you do get one, join the AYA (American Yankee Association) which is an invaluable resource. Also make sure you get checked out by someone with Grumman experience. They do not fly like 172's and Cherokees, and just like RV's, they have their idiosyncrasies that you need to be familiar with to avoid common transition accidents.

Good luck with your search. You are right where I was 27 years ago, and I can tell you that the twin adventures you are undertaking (airplane ownership and starting a family) are both quite an awesome ride!
 
The RV is Probably Safer

I feel a lot safer flying in an RV vs. a 172 - especially in the mountains the climb rate gives you a lot of cushion for downdrafts. Also the speed of an RC lets you escape weather that you can't in an 172.

Hans
 
LIke others,
Here is my .02C. Having flown all my life the choices of aircraft M20, 177, Grumman tiger are all good aircraft. I have seen two many bellanca's with the wooden spars that are rotten.

This being aid. In Jan 2010, I took a ride in a friends RV6a.. a tipper. Even with a IO320 and fix pitch prop... I was hooked on this aircraft as one I wanted but that would be the RV7 a tail wheel since I think they look sooooo cool.
I have flown over 70 different aircraft and the thing that got me on the RV was it is nimble at both ends of the airspeed indicator. It has good speed for cross country trips and great slow flight speed for landings. The visibility out of my RV7 is breath taking for everyone I have taken for a ride.. there is virtually nothing in front of you to obstruct your view... and the wow factor on the takeoffs I can only compare to a Cessna 185 . Push the Throttle, push on the elevator and the pull....

Your plenty short enough to fit in a M20. great airplane with a simple manual gear and not a maintenance buster.
177's have spar ad's which can cost big bucks.
Grumman's are a ball to fly and have all that honeycomb around the passenger compartment that has contributed to saving a lot of lives in accidents. They fly great too. a little faster than 172's.

Like it has been stated. most of your flying will be you and your wife and for the few years the kids are with you before long they start hanging around with their teenage friends you'll be flying again with your wife.

4 seats is too much... 98 percent of the time....

Jack
 
Another vote for the Tiger

The Tiger I think is the closest to an RV you can buy. A friend of mine has a 79 AA5B for sale right now. Mid time engine, GNS430, GTX320, GMA320, coupled autopilot, Sensenich prop. Mid 60's price range I think. I have about 35hrs in it. It flies more like an RV than any other plane I've flown. With 35hrs tiger time, Chartis insurance considered it time in type for RV9A.
 
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