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Rudder Pedal Technique ? Where/how do I place my feet on the pedals

Tumper

Well Known Member
I fly an RV-9 so I?m not sure this would apply to every model but for sure the RV-6 and RV-7.

I flew about 100 hours in my plane prior to adding insulation and carpet to the floor. If I recall correctly I could angle my feet at about a 45 degree angle and hit the bar at the bottom of the pedal (without hitting the brakes).

Now with the added height of the insulation and carpet the past technique doesn?t seem to work.

You guys with insulation and carpet, how do you get to the rudder without hitting the brakes? I?ve been trying to place my feet on the outer bar. That works pretty good on the inside (right) pedal, but the outside pedal has the rudder cable attached there. And by the way I don?t have large feet.

This may seem kind of trivial, but my baby is a taildragger, so it is extra important that I get this right.

Thanks for the thoughts?

PS I realize the picture is of the right side, but you get the point.

ztvv51.jpg
 
Rudder pedals

Suggest some rubber heater hose tie wrapped on the bottom tube or use one of the commercial products that bolt on the bottom tube

Perhaps a pair of flying shoes?

If still a problem, consider adjusting the geometry of the pedals and their angle using the holes along the side angles, the pedal attach hardware etc
 
I would suggest rudder pedal extensions offered by a couple of vendors or home-made as shown within the forums here on VAF. By "extensions" this means extending the rudder-only part of the pedal towards the pilot like shims. These extensions are attached to the bottom bar portion of the pedals effectively making the point of contact with the ball of your foot before any other part of the pedal. Makes a nice feel and helps reduce any tenancy to get on the brakes inadvertently. I added a kit to my RV-3B and like the results. I will do the same on my RV-8.

I think one of the home-made versions for rudder pedal extensions was some rubber hose slit and clamped in place over the bars. Wood strips too. You might try that temporarily and if you like the results invest in one of the more refined vendor kits that are fully developed.

As always, the details can be found here on VAF with a forum search.

Jim
 
I did not like the vinyl pads on the carpet, so I glued AL plates to the carpet. I turned down the edges with an edging tool and rounded the corners to prevent grabbing my shoes. This worked really well and my heels slid easily on the AL plates.

Roberta
 
What I taught my students in C172s (granted, tricycle gear so this technique might be clumsy in a taildragger RV) was to put their feet up on the rudder pedals so the balls of their feet were on the brakes and their heels were on the rudder pedals. Leg action moved the rudders, ankle action did the brakes. Given that taildraggers need more and faster inputs on takeoff and landing than nosedraggers, this might not work there... but it might work for taxi.

But be careful -- on one airplane (don't remember which model) there was a horizontal bar above the rudders, and if your feet extended above the rudder pedals, you couldn't get much deflections. That taught me to always check for full control deflection, before engine start and again before takeoff.

Ed
 
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When I started flying my 7 I struggled to use the rudder and brake pedals like they are intended. I developed a habit of turning my feet just enough to use the intersection of the vertical and horizontal tubes as a place to push without dragging the brakes.
 
It all depends on how you drilled your pedals.

When I first did it, I drilled the brake pedal parallel to the rudder bars and quickly realized that was not a good setup.

With the second set of pedals, I jigged the rudder bars up on the floor then clamped the pedals so they tilted forward about a half an inch. (I just adjusted it until they felt comfortable.)

This allows you to rest the arch of your feet on the bar and not press the brakes. When you want to apply the brakes, simply point your toes.

Putting a rubber hose across the rudder bar accomplishes the same thing, except your brake pedals may not line up.
 
Only my opinion:

I teach balls of feet on lower part of pedal. Accidental brake application during takeoff or landing when a gust hits your tail can get unnecessarily exciting.

Than after tail comes down on a wheel landing and the airplane is tracking straight with no swerves, intentionally move your feet up for the first brake application. I like that this is an intentional movement and an accidental brake should not get pressed.

Pilots wanting rudder to keep her straight as the airplane slows and getting brake AND rudder is not a good recipe.

At the least it adds wear to the airplane, at worst your asking for a ground loop.

Same goes for takeoff. Balls on lower pedal.
 
Same problem as you when I bought my 6. I redid the geometry by drilling off the angle that the bottom of the brake cylinder attaches to and lowered it one rivet. The gentleman that built my plane did a wonderful job as the river holes still all lined up. Reriveted the angle back on and now the top of the brake pedal is tilted back about 1 1/2" at the top. Didn't lose any leg room and with full pedal still have room to depress the brake.
JimS
 
Some people flip the angles so that the flange is on the firewall side instead of aft. This moves the flat part of the pedal fwd a bit from the bottom cross tube.
 
I should have known

I should have known VAF has all knowledge of all things Van?s Aircraft, if you (me) just look. Thanks for all the time and information dispensed. I?m going to give the JD Air extensions a try.

Also, Flyinhood (not sure if that is flying in the hood, flying under the hood or flying like Robinhood???) before adding the carpet I could use the ball of my feet and that is my preferred method of taking off and landing. But after adding the carpet I haven?t been able to do that, and I am not liking what I have tried.

Anyway, I think/hope this will help me get the ball of my feet back on the rudder pedal without touching the brakes.

Again, thanks
 
I have the JDAir extensions and they are perfect for positioning your feet with the carpet and insulation.
 
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I angle my feet, toes out, and rest on the rudder bar. Rotate them in when brakes are needed. Works for me, but may not for others as we all have different feet and shoe sizes.
 
I was a little worried about hitting the brakes too when I bought my 7. I put my feet on the bottom, outside corners of the pedals across both the horizontal and vertical tubes. That way I know I won't accidentally hit the pedal. When I am ready to brake, I just tip my feet more vertical and I can access the brakes. It all comes natural to me now. Even though the rudder cable is on one pedal, I can still get my foot across the corner of the frame. I wear size 12 sneaks and have no carpet.

Edit: OOPs, I see JonJay does the same thing.
 
Shameless plug

The JD Air pedal extensions were designed because of the geometry of our RV's when we are in the seats. Nearly impossible to NOT interact with the brakes. If your feet are bigger or you have lots of padding, it is exacerbated.

The pedal extensions solve that problem. I've people call and tell me how they are no longer tense when landing because they know they won't be interacting with the brakes.

I have them in stock and ready to ship. 5 minute install.

www.jdair.com
 
Trying to visualize the issue, I put my pedal as far forward as they could go without hitting the firewall with the brakes depressed and I also have a similar carpet setup. Based on my prior experience with my Pacer I got into the habit of making sure my heels were on the floor at touchdown to make sure I was not on the brakes and then move my feet up to use brakes when needed and this seems to work for me in the -7.

I do have long legs and size 12 shoes so that may make a difference and as suggested in a prior post about "flying shoes" I also tend to fly with lightweight shoes that have "rounded" heels that do not have any tendency to stick on the rubber matting.

It was a long time ago when I built the fuselage but I vaguely recall discussions even back then about changing the angle of the pedals to help with this situation as also mentioned in prior posts.

I suspect you will end up with your own technique but you are 90% of the way there in just being sensitive to issue when you fly.
 
Trying to visualize the issue, ....

Dave, the issue is that many builders drill the brake pedals so that they are exactly perpendicular to the vertical part of the rudder bars. On the side-by-side RV's the two bars, left and right, come down at different angles.

Keep in mind, that in the side-by-sides, you sit slightly higher than in your -4. Thus the tendency is for your foot to naturally point slightly forward, riding the brakes.

That's why tilting the pedals slightly forward and evenly makes such a big difference.

Those who put a piece of rubber hose or some other object on the horizontal part of the rudder bar (not the bar that they pivot on but the bottom where you press with your feet) moves the pilots foot further away from the pedal, forcing them to point their toes slightly to activate the brakes.

Does that help?
 
+1 for angling my feet across the outside corner of the rudder pedals. I angled my brakes forward and most taxiing, takeoff and landings I can have the ball of my foot on the center part of the pedal. But in larger crosswinds the larger pedal travel causes my toes to point forward and possibly drag a brake so I angle my feet across the outside corner of the rudder pedal.
 
As others mentioned above, it is as Simple as putting a piece of hydraulic hose from NAPA over the bottom tube of the pedal. Get the largest o.d. With the needed I.d. And your problems should be over. Or, you can pay a fair bit of money and get the pedal extensions referred to above. I vote for the former! :)
Hope this helps.
 
I actually TIG welded a plate to the rudder pedals in my 9 that attaches to the vertical and to the horizontal , It is positioned aft ( closer to the pilot) of the brake pedal part and solved my problem of getting on the brakes when landing. I only have brakes on the pilot side. It did require removal of the pedals to do that welding and etc, also painted before reinstalling. Had I found the pedal extensions first that probably would have been the way to resolve simpler. If anyone interested I'll send you a pic
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=RUU4d3Y2OG15dkd5WVBBUGtsemFfUnlNaHRDdlhR

Also shows my custom built rudder Spring control lock. The triangle in the fore is going to be a stick bungee control lock one day.
 
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What I taught my students in C172s (granted, tricycle gear so this technique might be clumsy in a taildragger RV) was to put their feet up on the rudder pedals so the balls of their feet were on the brakes and their heels were on the rudder pedals. Leg action moved the rudders, ankle action did the brakes. Given that taildraggers need more and faster inputs on takeoff and landing than nosedraggers, this might not work there... but it might work for taxi.
rest the arch of your feet on the bar and not press the brakes. When you want to apply the brakes, simply point your toes.

FWIW that's basically what I do for ground ops, takeoff, and landing in Dad's -6. I find that having my feet up, with maybe my heels lightly touching the carpet, and the bottom bar at the front of my heel/back of where my arch should be, allows me to use my legs for rudder input, giving me full input over the entire range of the pedals. I keep my feet pulled back and use pivoting at the ankle to apply brakes.

I tried putting the ball of my foot on the bottom bar but my response seemed slower, I wasn't getting full pedal travel, and it felt like my foot was going to slide off the bottom of the pedal when pressing that side.


However, Dad's brakes are angled forward a bit, which makes this easier to do, and mine will be the same way.
 
I should have known VAF has all knowledge of all things Van?s Aircraft, if you (me) just look. Thanks for all the time and information dispensed. I?m going to give the JD Air extensions a try.

Also, Flyinhood (not sure if that is flying in the hood, flying under the hood or flying like Robinhood???) before adding the carpet I could use the ball of my feet and that is my preferred method of taking off and landing. But after adding the carpet I haven?t been able to do that, and I am not liking what I have tried.

Anyway, I think/hope this will help me get the ball of my feet back on the rudder pedal without touching the brakes.

Again, thanks

Hey Tumper,

I'll be putting in some carpet soon too in my 6. Sorry I didn't realize the crux of the question earlier when I responded. I didn't get the distance conundrum vs technique of foot postilion. My last name is Hood so flyinhood is my email.

Tailwinds,

Hoody
 
Buy a couple small pieces of half-inch PVC and a couple more of 3/4-inch PVC. Split them lengthwise on a band saw so you have just over half of the diameter of the PVC on one of the splits. Glue the half-inch inside the 3/4-inch piece with PVC glue. Trim to appropriate length to fit onto the bottom of the rudder pedals and snap them in place. If it's not tight enough, you can add a band clamp to keep them from rotating around the bottom of the pedal. Adds about 1/4 inch of depth, enough to keep your feet off the brakes in most cases. Same idea as the rubber hose.
 
Buy a couple small pieces of half-inch PVC and a couple more of 3/4-inch PVC. Split them lengthwise on a band saw so you have just over half of the diameter of the PVC on one of the splits. Glue the half-inch inside the 3/4-inch piece with PVC glue. Trim to appropriate length to fit onto the bottom of the rudder pedals and snap them in place. If it's not tight enough, you can add a band clamp to keep them from rotating around the bottom of the pedal. Adds about 1/4 inch of depth, enough to keep your feet off the brakes in most cases. Same idea as the rubber hose.
 
Another Extension option.. $75/pair for the 'Aerosport' or 'RV-10'. I can change the RV-10 to any other RV model pretty easily, if desired. We can also do custom lettering if you wanted your N-Number or anything else (price varies.) This is pa12 Nylon material and very lightweight/strong. Let me know if you have any questions.

 
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