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Blew out Oil Filter Gasket

x55pilot

Member
Before any cold start I always use my sump heater. On this start my oil temp was 74F and cylinders were 47F. Fortunately I had the cowling off for a post maintenance engine run. The engine had about 45 SMOH no work was done on the oil system. After the engine fired off the windshield had a large amount of oil splatters. I shutdown immediately. Looked over the engine found the oil filter gasket exstruded out, the filter was tight (15 ft-lbs). Talked to Lycoming, they said there was a blockage between the oil pump and the filter causing the pressure to exceed 200 psi.
Anyone have any thoughts where to look?
 
Before any cold start I always use my sump heater. On this start my oil temp was 74F and cylinders were 47F. Fortunately I had the cowling off for a post maintenance engine run. The engine had about 45 SMOH no work was done on the oil system. After the engine fired off the windshield had a large amount of oil splatters. I shutdown immediately. Looked over the engine found the oil filter gasket exstruded out, the filter was tight (15 ft-lbs). Talked to Lycoming, they said there was a blockage between the oil pump and the filter causing the pressure to exceed 200 psi.
Anyone have any thoughts where to look?

I hate when you do everything right and stuff like this still happens, I’ll be watching to see what the others say. I am sorry buddy
 
Relief valve?

What was the max pressure you had seen to date (confirming oil pressure relief valve function).

Way back I had a pair of defective filters ( I pitched the rest of the six pack deal I bought them under) that blew the seal on my 1982 Pontiac J2000 twice in rural Iowa...ah, the days. Went away from the Frams, never happened again. My point is stuff happens when it comes to filters. The baseplate being soft, the forming plate being out of spec, the seal not being dimensionally correct or durometer...and 99.9% most applications won’t notice. I’m in the spin on filter business for a living....these are things I’m aware of. At least the seam didn’t let go!

Anyway, a different brand and a maybe a little extra mechanical instrumentation to confirm upstream/ downstream pressures is cheap compared to a tear down. I bet a $100 of mcmaster money and you could know.
 
good for you for doing the leak check. it seems the filter is blocked somehow. how could that happen?

did the maintenance have anything to do with the oil filter housing gasket?
 
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Talked to Lycoming, they said there was a blockage between the oil pump and the filter causing the pressure to exceed 200 psi.
Anyone have any thoughts where to look?

Not between the oil pump and the filter.

Overpressure at the filter gasket would require the blockage to be downstream of the outer surface of the filter's paper element....assuming there is an actual blockage.

Additional information please. Filter brand and model? 100W or multi grade? What maintenance was performed prior to start, and did it include a filter swap? AC style filter adapter or something else? And when it lit off, what RPM did it reach, max?
 
Assuming the maintenance DID include a new filter, is it possible that the old gasket remained on the adaptor such that there are now two gaskets?

As Dan said, we need to know if the maintenance included a new filter, etc.
 
The OP stated specifically that no work was done on the oil system.


What work was done?
 
I spoke with X55 yesterday and I can fill in a couple blanks while we wait for him to respond.

Due to his EFIS configuration and brownout on start, he does not know the oil pressure during cranking or immediately after start. I have suggested a mechanical guage to assist in troubleshooting.

His normal cruise oil pressure is 95 PSI hot.

The oil filter adapter is a generic, remote style that mounts to the firewall with flex hose. I do not know the brand, nor the configuration of the unit that that interfaces with the accessory case. I agree that this has to be blockage downstream of the filter and prior to the relief valve, or a sticking relief valve. He's going to look at both.

The filter is a NAPA Gold. Not sure of the number, but he, like me and many of my friends around here have been running these filters for years with no issues.
 
Assuming the maintenance DID include a new filter, is it possible that the old gasket remained on the adaptor such that there are now two gaskets?

My brother did this on a car oil change 25+ years ago. Made a huge mess on the driveway.

Seems like it would take a lot of pressure to blow out a single gasket on a properly installed filter.
 
My brother did this on a car oil change 25+ years ago. Made a huge mess on the driveway.

Seems like it would take a lot of pressure to blow out a single gasket on a properly installed filter.

yep, that can be a common failure mode. the old gasket stays on and then you add another one with the new filter. now you have 2 installed.
 
The double gasket is certainly possible, but its been my experience that the NAPA filters have a very robust gasket retention scheme. The groove that the gasket rides in is very tight, and the base plate is at least as thick as the aviation products. I have yet to see a gasket left behind with a NAPA filter, and I use them on all my airplanes and cars. I am certain that x55 will check for this.
 
Assuming the maintenance DID include a new filter, is it possible that the old gasket remained on the adaptor such that there are now two gaskets?
In 40 years i've only had an oil filter gasket fail on me once, and that's exactly how it failed. Removed the old filter, and the gasket remained on the engine.

This was in my car, not my airplane, but since then I have always checked the removed filter on the plane to make sure the gasket is still there, and the engine to make sure there's nothing left on the mating surface.
 
Before any cold start I always use my sump heater. On this start my oil temp was 74F and cylinders were 47F. F......

Have you ever measured temp at the remote-mounted filter and associated plumbing after using the sump heater? Suspect that very little of that heat conducts to the filter/housing.

Also, provided there wasn't a 2nd filter base gasket inadvertently left on, would be interesting to see what the filter media looks like (crushed?).
 
In 40 years i've only had an oil filter gasket fail on me once, and that's exactly how it failed. Removed the old filter, and the gasket remained on the engine.

This was in my car, not my airplane, but since then I have always checked the removed filter on the plane to make sure the gasket is still there, and the engine to make sure there's nothing left on the mating surface.
Maybe it’s just me, but I ALWAYS look at the mounting surface on the engine after removing the filter, then wipe it clean and look again before installing the new one.
 
Have you ever measured temp at the remote-mounted filter and associated plumbing after using the sump heater? Suspect that very little of that heat conducts to the filter/housing.
I have the Reiff standard system on my Beech (sump pad plus cylinder bands). With a heavy blanket on the cowl top, stuffed into the air inlets, the entire FWF area gets comfy warm to the touch. Oil is usually in the 90s and cyls in the high 70s when the hangar is in the 20s or 10s. I leave the heater on all winter though so it had time to conduct (don't want to start that debate).
 
His normal cruise oil pressure is 95 PSI hot

That got my attention. I thought Lycomings don't like much over 100-115 PSI (with top end value allowed briefly on takeoff) oil pressure with normal range being 55-90 psi. So if 95 is his normal oil-temp cruise oil pressure what is his engine-start oil pressure when the oil is cool and thick?
 
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Install a different new filter as first action.

Stuff happens and there is no downstream design/manufacturing approval for such parts. Try a new filter first. quick easy and be ready for data collection. If a success, then analyze for why.

A sequence of events can really throw off one's thinking. I was a mechanic for a few years and got hired by an independent to do his VW work. I thought I was pretty good, but this guy was me after 20 yrs. He was really, really good.

Assigned a towed in Cadillac for no-start. I checked pretty rapidly came to points were shorted. He stocked new Delco-Reamy points. I installed and still would not fire and start????? I was doing some rethinking, Henry walked by and without hesitation said, "put in another set of points" . . . really ????

New - in the box never installed, and YES they were shorted like the old points!! What are the odds. Well, odds don't matter, reality is what counts. That was 50 yrs ago.

Now you are thinking, Bill you are a definitive diagnosis guy, whaaaat? Well sometimes (always) you just have to ensure you really have a problem, and this is the first step, and could be the last. Undo what you did last..
 
That got my attention. I thought Lycomings don't like much over 100-115 PSI (with top end value allowed briefly on takeoff) oil pressure with normal range being 55-90 psi. So if 95 is his normal oil-temp cruise oil pressure what is his engine-start oil pressure when the oil is cool and thick?

I asked for Mahlons opinion when dealing with an OP issue on my 10. He recommended no higher than 80 on hot cruise OP. His concern was from bursting parts with 100+ pressures when cold. I always thought higher was better for the valve lubrication, but I honestly wouldn't consdier ignoring Mahlons advice. THose using single weight oils must be even more vigilant.

Larry
 
Just a shot in the dark. Some oil filters have bypass valves internally, located differently dependent on application. Some of these filters may look identical externally, with same mounting flange, but structured very differently inside. Is it possible this could have caused a blockage, or combined with a plumbing issue as described in this youtube?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5jAgT6H1do
 
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More Info

I have a Airwolf Lyc-10 oil adaptor with a remote filter using a NAPA 1515. Cut it open looks good no folded pleats, does have a bypass. NO the was one gasket on the filter. Traced the oil cooler, pressure relief, Lyc-10, remote adaptor, hoses, flow passages all good. Looking to install a B&C701 or 702 or Casper Lab CL1000 using 48108 filter if they fit. I did notice the filter was easy to remove. I torque it to 16 ft-lbs on installation. Going to compare this oil filter gasket to a Champion gasket for softness/hardness. Could be the gasket got soft, lost sealing properties and everything else is OK. Need to be sure before I fly it.
 
Filter Pic

Attached is the NAPA 1515 filter
 

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Thanks for the photo and update. If it was loose on removal I would check with a straight edge to see if the plate has deformed. It is the primary structural part and the one that oil filter manufacturers most try to cost reduce as it is the most expensive single part.

Mann filters are typically pretty good and all filters are tested to the ISO development standards for over pressure and deformation. That leaves possible filter failure, and engine overpressure. Is it made in China, just curious. Wonder about a counterfeit part.

Non aircraft engines are start tested at cold temperatures down to -20C to start and run to rated speed/power without exceeding pressure limits of the lube system and components.

One example: I have watched an Isuzu I4, 3.0L diesel be started in a cold cell and go immediately to full load/speed until reaching normal coolant temps only to be force cooled back to -20C and do it again. It is a brutal test. Most oil systems tests are typically done with a specially formulated silicone fluid to the cold oil viscosity for normal temp testing before the engine ever gets to the cold cell, but it is the final test of all systems. Do know what a Dell laptop looks like after being in that cell and coming out to 90% humidity and 90F temps ? A big frosty ice block, amazing, but it still worked after dozens of cycles.

I hope you are able to the bottom of this.
 
I use the ¾ turn method which should be about 16 ftlbs. Oil filters require a strong pull to get them started on removal. Never had one spin off easily. Just curious if the filter was safety wired?
G
 
Sounds like a lot of investigation but you still do not have the single, most critical information - oil pressure at start. It will take 5 minutes to temp install a length of hose and a mechanical guage.

Oil pressure forced the gasket out, you need to quantify that value before you go anywhere else.
 
The "loose on removal" reminded me of a problem I worked through quite a few decades ago. I had just changed oil on a car, but for whatever reason, the car sat overnight in a cold shed before I started it the next day. I backed it out of the shed, trailing a bunch of oil. I shut down, and saw the massive leak was from the filter. I noticed the filter was loose, so I assumed I'd forgotten to tighten it (even though I was fairly certain I had...). I put another filter on, made sure to tighten it. Started it up and sure as heck, the new one leaked also. It was also now loose... I concluded that the pressure relief valve had stuck closed, and the filters had deformed due to high oil pressure, leaving them loose (and leaking!). The failure mode was as Bill noted - the plate had deformed. A replacement oil pump housing and the problem was fixed on that car.
 
If the direct pressure gauge does not show any issues with the engine side, then it would be very simple to rig up a hydrostatic test using a remote hand pump. I use a porta power hand pump to test my shop assembled hose assemblies and hard lines. No problem generating 1000PSI with a few pumps.

We could throw a few hundred PSI at that remote filter and see if the seal extrudes. Would not even have to remove the filter housing from the firewall.

Ill call you later - I have all the stuff in my shop and I can be up there in a few minutes.
 
The "loose on removal" reminded me of a problem I worked through quite a few decades ago. I had just changed oil on a car, but for whatever reason, the car sat overnight in a cold shed before I started it the next day. I backed it out of the shed, trailing a bunch of oil. I shut down, and saw the massive leak was from the filter. I noticed the filter was loose, so I assumed I'd forgotten to tighten it (even though I was fairly certain I had...). I put another filter on, made sure to tighten it. Started it up and sure as heck, the new one leaked also. It was also now loose... I concluded that the pressure relief valve had stuck closed, and the filters had deformed due to high oil pressure, leaving them loose (and leaking!). The failure mode was as Bill noted - the plate had deformed. A replacement oil pump housing and the problem was fixed on that car.

+1

I would be very concerned about loose on removal. That is a clear sign that something is wrong with parts, oil system, fit up or installation technique. I have replaced a lot of oil filters in my day (auto uses the exact same retention design) and have never had one that I installed that didn't require a very good amount of force with an oil filter wrench to loosen (except those with no run time - heat cycling seems to increase the grip strength of the arrangement)

Larry
 
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The filter mount looks like it's too small compared to the diameter of the O-ring seal.

Hard to tell exatly what the OD of the machined surface on the housing is, but eyeballing it seems to show it is somewhat larger than the O ring. Assuming the seal surface is concentric with the attachment nipple, then a larger seal surface wont increase the sealing capability. It would be nice to know the ID of the seal surface though - the seal should see 100% surface contact to be effective.
 
Just a thought, if the check valve in the filter was stuck/ blocked the pressure would spike. I dont use the Napa filters but they look like an automotive equivalent to a PH8 Ford filter that do have a check valve.

A second thought, any chance the lines were reversed recently?
 
Any blockage whether it was downstream, the filter blocked, check valve not functioning, etc. would have made the filter can expand which doesnt appear to be the case from the limited view of the pics. Its simply a problem with the filter seal and the non-standard adapter. Automotive oil filters come in many different configurations so its possible this aftermarket housing does not interface correctly with the Napa 1515. Properly torqued its almost impossible to get a filter seal to fail like this, because the plate lip captures the seal. It appears also to be undertorqured.
 
Any blockage whether it was downstream, the filter blocked, check valve not functioning, etc. would have made the filter can expand which doesnt appear to be the case from the limited view of the pics. Its simply a problem with the filter seal and the non-standard adapter. Automotive oil filters come in many different configurations so its possible this aftermarket housing does not interface correctly with the Napa 1515. Properly torqued its almost impossible to get a filter seal to fail like this, because the plate lip captures the seal. It appears also to be undertorqured.

See my earlier post... the can itself doesn't have to deform, the plate does (filter end cap or whatever it's called), allowing leakage and removing contact pressure/torque holding. The plate deforms slightly conical.
 
oil filter

I had a similar problem many years ago, when I bought the plane.
The filter was a remote oil filter champion.
When I changed the oil filter I saw that the internal filer gasket was blown.
I talked to a friend tho is an A/P and he said the filter was bad.
Next time I changed the new filter the internal gasket was blown again.
It turned out that the hoses in and out to the filter was mixed up.

Good luck
 
See my earlier post... the can itself doesn't have to deform, the plate does (filter end cap or whatever it's called), allowing leakage and removing contact pressure/torque holding. The plate deforms slightly conical.

I don't see that happening on a 1515 as the plate is pretty stout.

BTW Alex I was just in Wadena a few weeks ago.
 
Filter Installation or Mounting

Much of the early discussion in the thread seemed to focus around excess oil pressure. I don't believe that's the issue. I took a look at both a Tempest filter as well as a Motorcraft automotive style filter (FL820S) that I had on hand. In both cases, the filter gasket is very well captured in the stamped groove in the housing. If the filter were properly installed and torqued against a good, flat mating surface, I cannot see how any pressure short of something astronomical could extruded the filter gasket out of position as shown in the OP's picture.

If there wasn't an old gasket stuck on the filter adapter, I've got to believe that the filter either wasn't properly torqued, or something caused the fully torqued filter to not be screwed into position with adequate clamping pressure against the gasket. Alternatively, as others have recently speculated, the filter adapter mounting surface was not of sufficient diameter to contain the gasket.

Skylor
RV-8

Skylor
 
Much of the early discussion in the thread seemed to focus around excess oil pressure. I don't believe that's the issue...

Still yet to be determined, but the blown gaskets started with the installation of the new engine 45 hours ago. This engine does have a much higher oil pressure in cruise than the old engine, and there was never a problem with automotive filters before. That's not to say that the gasket sealing surface is too small or there's some other root discrepancy, but the new, higher oil pressure is the only known variable in the configuration.
 
New installation

As the engine installation is only 45 h from new, I should check the basics of the installation. The routing of the oil hoses would be my primary concern.
The wording of IN/ OUT have different meaning depending what you are refering to. You have IN/OUT on the oil filter and the engine.
If any one of theese are wrong there will be a very high pressure on the filter.

Good luck.
 
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