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results of opening the canopy in flight

seagull

Well Known Member
background;
Twice I have had a bee in the cockpit. Once one was discovered at 150' altitude on takeoff. A well aimed swat with my ball cap worked. BUT, I had considered opening the canopy slightly to suck him out, hence my question.

I have read about the N212ZF fatality, but that seems more like the pilot got distracted and forgot his first priority was piloting.

Has anyone cracked the canopy open in flight? What was the side effect?
 
To enjoy the breeze

Depending on the model of RV you have. If it's a tip up it will pop open about 6". plane will pitch down and you'll have to get as slow as possible to latch it again. Like full flaps and slow flight.
Other than getting any thing loose in the cockpit blown out or around it ain't no big deal
Had mine pop open at 180 6,500' over the mountains. Other than scaring the &@$32 out of me cause I wasn't expecting it. I've taken off with it unlatched also. Went to altitude and closed it. Latches needed adjustment.
Having been a beekeeper for 50 years, they usually don't bother stinging you unless you tick them off with a cap swing.
Art
 
Opening Up

You might find plenty on this subject with a search. Short version, sliders mostly seem to want to just slide shut, tip-ups cause severe pitch down control problems. My wife had the canopy come open unexpectedly on our RV-6 tip-up and the airplane lunged for the ground. Her headset went overboard, hanging by the cord. She could not get it latched and landed holding it down, needing three hands and more strength. VERY dicey, highly, highly not recommended.
 
I got swarmed by yellow jackets (31 bites) fifteen years ago and went into anaphylactic shock and almost checked-out. It was a little scary. I was prescribed an EpiPen (epinephrine injection) and told to stab myself in the thigh if ever having a severe reaction.

I got stung again this past summer by a hornet – stung me on the cheek 1” below eye. I was minding my own business and the SOB hornet stung me. My eye swelled shut for a whole day – it really hurt.

So, two things…

  • Yellow jackets, hornets, wasps can sting you for no reason at all.
  • I keep an EpiPen and a can of wasp spray handy in the airplane.
 
On the RV-3 the tip-up canopy will open and tear off.

Suspect may be the save with RV-4.

I guess the side-by-sides behave differently.

Finn
 
On the RV-3 the tip-up canopy will open and tear off.

Suspect may be the save with RV-4.

I guess the side-by-sides behave differently.

Finn

The 3 and 4 models have "tip over" canopy. I can see slip stream tearing them off.

As reported above, "tip up" canopy is not much of a problem. I forgot to latch my canopy once. Don't panic, slow the airplane at altitude and then re-latch.
 
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Depending on the model of RV you have. If it's a tip up it will pop open about 6". plane will pitch down and you'll have to get as slow as possible to latch it again. Like full flaps and slow flight.
Other than getting any thing loose in the cockpit blown out or around it ain't no big deal
Had mine pop open at 180 6,500' over the mountains. Other than scaring the &@$32 out of me cause I wasn't expecting it. I've taken off with it unlatched also. Went to altitude and closed it. Latches needed adjustment.
Having been a beekeeper for 50 years, they usually don't bother stinging you unless you tick them off with a cap swing.
Art

I also forgot to latch/lock my tip-up canopy for takeoff. I got up to pattern altitude, cinched my lab belt tighter, and pushed the nose over in a very light bunt. That placed more of the air load onto the canopy itself, pushing it down onto the rail. I could then easily latch and lock it.
 
A search did not provide anything on the -12. I wasn't going to assume what happens to a -7 is the same.

I am only interested in the RV-12 and its tendencies with the canopy unlatched in flight. Every aircraft is different so what may be deadly to a -7 or a -3 may be a complete non issue to a different model.

Piper J3,
You are exactly on point with the reason, I used to react badly to insect stings when I was younger. I don't know now and am not looking to find out. I also don't want to be a test pilot by cracking opening the canopy.
 
  • I keep an EpiPen and a can of wasp spray handy in the airplane.

I don't know what would happen if you sprayed wasp spray inside your canopy in flight but I can't imagine it would make it easy to keep flying the airplane. That stuff is nasty!
 
I read on Vansairforce about a RV-12 accident caused by a distracted pilot who forgot to latch the canopy prior to takeoff.
The RV-12 hit the runway while the pilot was trying to latch the canopy.
When I neglected to latch the canopy before takeoff, my first reaction was to reach for the canopy.
But then I remembered that accident and put my arm back down and flew the plane.
My RV-12 flew fine with the canopy open, but it was a little windy. :)
After climbing to a safe altitude and slowing down, I was able to get the canopy half latched.
The handle was under the roll bar at least. I would not try opening the canopy in flight though.
What if you get your fingers pinched between the handle and roll bar?
 
Canopy opened

I recently had my tip up canopy come open in flight, forgot to close the top latch.
On take off, full power, 800', 120KIAS. I thought I had been hit by a sidewinder missile, the canopy came open about 8".
I immediately grabbed the handle and tried to close it, it would only come down about 4" or so, pulling as hard as I could actually lifting myself out of the seat.
I realized that I needed to pull the power back but only had 2 hands and was reluctant to let go of the canopy handle, didn't know what that might of done, concerned that the canopy might come off and the results would not be good. After a second or two, I decided that my only option was to let go of the stick and pull the power. BAD decision, the airplane did an immediate, hard, nose down and left turn, by the time I had reduced the power and got my hand back on the stick I was at 400' looking straight at the ground. Not a good place to be. After getting the airplane under control, I was able to successfully land on the intersecting runway, mid field from 400' or so altitude.

I am 78 years old been flying for 40 year, several thousand hours of time, mostly in RV's, aside from an incident with ice in a Mooney, this is as close as I have ever come.

I have since sold the airplane and have related this story to the new owner in hopes that he will not make the same mistake. DOUBLE CHECK THE CANOPY LATCH. In closing, This is a fantastic airplane, the problem was with the pilot
not the airplane.

Fly safe,
Dick
 
They can smell fear . . .

Having been a beekeeper for 50 years, they usually don't bother stinging you unless you tick them off with a cap swing.
Art

That's what my Granddaddy told me, as he brushed red wasps off a nest to harvest the grubs for fish bait while I observed in the opposite end of a 12' jon boat. I later had a chance to practice with honey bees. Weird sensation when they cover your hands and arms. Like when a canopy/door pops open, a good time to remain calm.

Yellow jackets and hornets, very territorial unless accepted. Another story.

I put screen inside my air vent scat (7) to avoid issues. Formed the screen over some PVC, inserted and secured with RTV.
 
I put screen inside my air vent scat (7) to avoid issues. Formed the screen over some PVC, inserted and secured with RTV.

Plenty of openings elsewhere. Airplanes are parked for long periods of time. Suppose a nest gets build in the tail cone and then you close the canopy, yell "clear prop", and fire up the engine?
 
I recently had my tip up canopy come open in flight, forgot to close the top latch.
On take off, full power, 800', 120KIAS. I thought I had been hit by a sidewinder missile, the canopy came open about 8".
I immediately grabbed the handle and tried to close it, it would only come down about 4" or so, pulling as hard as I could actually lifting myself out of the seat.
I realized that I needed to pull the power back but only had 2 hands and was reluctant to let go of the canopy handle, didn't know what that might of done, concerned that the canopy might come off and the results would not be good. After a second or two, I decided that my only option was to let go of the stick and pull the power. BAD decision, the airplane did an immediate, hard, nose down and left turn, by the time I had reduced the power and got my hand back on the stick I was at 400' looking straight at the ground. Not a good place to be. After getting the airplane under control, I was able to successfully land on the intersecting runway, mid field from 400' or so altitude.

Was this a RV-12?
 
I have had my RV-12 canopy come partially open a couple of times. Pro tip: Remember to fully latch the canopy before takeoff to avoid feeling like an idiot.

In both cases, the canopy latch was under the roll bar, but not latched. The canopy popped open a couple of inches. I had zero success in getting it to close without actually landing the airplane and doing it on the ground.

When the canopy pops open, the frame spreads enough from the air pressure differential that the guide plates on the back end of the frame (C-1206) will not go into the slots in the canopy support rails (F-1254). You can't pull the canopy down enough to latch it. I didn't try extreme slow flight or a sudden pitch down, thinking that I'd rather land and latch the thing than run the risk of looking really stupid in an NTSB report.

You can bet I make it a point now to include a thorough check of the canopy latch state just before doing the run-up.
 
I recently had my tip up canopy come open in flight, forgot to close the top latch.
On take off, full power, 800', 120KIAS. I thought I had been hit by a sidewinder missile, the canopy came open about 8".
I immediately grabbed the handle and tried to close it, it would only come down about 4" or so, pulling as hard as I could actually lifting myself out of the seat.
<snip>
I have since sold the airplane and have related this story to the new owner in hopes that he will not make the same mistake. DOUBLE CHECK THE CANOPY LATCH. In closing, This is a fantastic airplane, the problem was with the pilot
not the airplane.

Fly safe,
Dick

Which RV do you have. Obviously not a -12.

Jerre
 
RV-12 related - -

Had a friend take off without latching tip up RV-12. Panicked, and turned and landed the best he could downwind. Totaled plane and bruised himself a bunch. Best not to try to close it. Slow down and land as soon as possible.
 
I usually open my canopy slightly on rollout (PHX gets hot!). I find that the latch won’t unlatch unit the speed slows to a brisk walk, leading me to believe it would be a bear to pull down and relaunch in flight.
 
A 12 canopy coming open in flight is not a big deal at all. If it was unintentional, there is a startle factor, but the aeroplane continues to fly stably.

During initial testing some years ago for a client, I was increasing the speed range and it popped open. Turned out that unbeknown to me, the client had turned the latch handle round as he thought it was stiff ! As you may know, the latch is asymmetric in length and what used to latch, no longer did.

The canopy floated about 6" up, so I slowed the aeroplane down and decided what to do next.

Now, if you have ever seen comics doing "The Balloon Dance", you realise you are short of a hand to control everything !

I could hold the canopy and the stick - I could hold the throttle and stick, but not all three. Factor in, it was an early model 12 with a sprung throttle, you see where my problem lay.

The main thing to remember is FLY THE AEROPLANE !

In the end, got it to left base, closed and twist locked the throttle and used stick and canopy hands and landed without incident.

Would I deliberately open a 12 canopy in flight - no - it is not designed to do that and if you get turbulence, a sudden jolt or anything that compromises the canopy bubble - your day just got really bad indeed !

The whole incident was fully reported both to our LAA and to Vans and subsequently, changes were made to the latch system on the 12 to include warning lights.
 
I recently had my tip up canopy come open in flight, forgot to close the top latch.
On take off, full power, 800', 120KIAS. I thought I had been hit by a sidewinder missile, the canopy came open about 8".
I immediately grabbed the handle and tried to close it, it would only come down about 4" or so, pulling as hard as I could actually lifting myself out of the seat.
I realized that I needed to pull the power back but only had 2 hands and was reluctant to let go of the canopy handle, didn't know what that might of done, concerned that the canopy might come off and the results would not be good. After a second or two, I decided that my only option was to let go of the stick and pull the power. BAD decision, the airplane did an immediate, hard, nose down and left turn, by the time I had reduced the power and got my hand back on the stick I was at 400' looking straight at the ground. Not a good place to be. After getting the airplane under control, I was able to successfully land on the intersecting runway, mid field from 400' or so altitude.

I am 78 years old been flying for 40 year, several thousand hours of time, mostly in RV's, aside from an incident with ice in a Mooney, this is as close as I have ever come.

I have since sold the airplane and have related this story to the new owner in hopes that he will not make the same mistake. DOUBLE CHECK THE CANOPY LATCH. In closing, This is a fantastic airplane, the problem was with the pilot
not the airplane.

Fly safe,
Dick

I've had quite the opposite experience. When my RV-6A Tip-up canopy popped open, I just kept flying the plane. Never tried to close the canopy. The plane flew almost normally, with a slight, easily controlled nose down pitching moment. The canopy "floated" about 6-8" open. Trimmed it out, RTB, and flew a normal pattern, landed, and the canopy closed itself as I slowed in the rollout.
I suppose YMMV....
 
I've had quite the opposite experience. When my RV-6A Tip-up canopy popped open, I just kept flying the plane. Never tried to close the canopy. The plane flew almost normally, with a slight, easily controlled nose down pitching moment. The canopy "floated" about 6-8" open. Trimmed it out, RTB, and flew a normal pattern, landed, and the canopy closed itself as I slowed in the rollout.
I suppose YMMV....

My experience was exactly the same. The aircraft did have a easily correctable nose down pitching moment but otherwise flew normally.
G
 
Had a friend take off without latching tip up RV-12. Panicked, and turned and landed the best he could downwind. Totaled plane and bruised himself a bunch. Best not to try to close it. Slow down and land as soon as possible.

Was this friend in Minnesota around 2010? If so I have that RV12 now. It was rebuilt and flying. I did take off once without latching the canopy and immediately noticed before leaving the ground so pull the power and taxied off the runway and latched it. Now I check it religiously several times before departing.
 
Now I check it religiously several times before departing.
You and me both, brother. I was tempted to put a canopy latch switch in line with the spar pins, but that would make it a pain to taxi with e canopy unlatched. So, I was working on a little adapter to add a canopy switch, active only when RPM exceeds a set threshold, but didn't finish testing it. Figured just getting better about following the pre-takeoff checklist religiously was probably a better option.
 
switch

I just put a microswitch behind the canopy handle, quite sharp so, that a red light lits on the panel when the canopy isn' t fully closed. That way I can taxi with the canopy partly open, the red light blinking (and the checklist) will help me remember.
 
Took off today during climb out the wife noticed a vibration noise and pulled down on the canopy handle saying it was coming from there. I grabbed the handle and gave it a little twist, ( obviously not so little) and it came unlatch. I was unable to get it latched in flight even slowing to 60kts so returned to the airport. The wife easily held the canopy “close” to closed. I noticed no change in the plane’s stability.
 
Steps for emergencies

1-maintain aircraft control
2-analyze the situation and take proper action
3-Land as soon as conditions permit. Do not overfly a suitable airfield.
 
This is interesting. I seem to recall a fatal RV-12 crash a year or two ago where there was conjecture that a failed canopy latch caused the canopy to pop up on final disrupting airflow over the stabilator causing the aircraft to pitch down. This incident would indicate that doesn’t happen.
 
An Accident

Just more data…did a webinar a few months ago where FAA investigated an RV-12 that witnesses said suddenly dove into the ground. The impact was hard enough to flatten the wings’ leading edges almost back to the spar. Evidence pointed pretty clearly to an unlatched canopy. I posted earlier on this thread about my wife’s incident in our RV-6 that got pretty dicey when the canopy unlatched. I spent a bit of time going over the latches and found no problems. You can be sure they get a good look on every condition inspection, too. Come to think if it, just before we bought this same airplane, the last owner and I were flying it on the demo flight when the canopy unlatched. He was the pilot flying, and the airplane seemed to fly fine. We could not get the canopy down the last inch or so and landed uneventfully with me holding it. On the ground, we just latched it down properly and took off again without a nervous thought. Very strange that we had two different situations to the same condition on the same airplane. Go figure. Anyway, I check the canopy very closely before takeoff and we’ve never had any more trouble.
 
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This is interesting. I seem to recall a fatal RV-12 crash a year or two ago where there was conjecture that a failed canopy latch caused the canopy to pop up on final disrupting airflow over the stabilator causing the aircraft to pitch down. This incident would indicate that doesn’t happen.

In my case the canopy did not ever open more than a 2” crack at the rear. Between me and the wife someone always had a hand on the handle. I gained safe altitude and went to auto-pilot then tried to pull the sides in so the last inch would closed, no luck.
It may be true that the plane becomes unstable if it opens too far, I didn’t want to test that. I would think the slip stream would try to keep it mostly down. It does mess with your head and I could see where a person could forget to fly the plane.
 
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I've got an RV 8, and this seems mostly about RV 12's. Moderators--shut me down if I'm out of place here.
Anyway, my 8 has a slider canopy. I cracked it open just enough to toss out a roll of toilet paper, (later to dive for it) BUT, I had to slow down to 75 KIAS to crack the canopy open ( about 2 inches---It didn't wanna open.) By the time I got the canopy closed, increased airspeed while in a hard left bank looking for that $%^&* roll of toilet paper, I never found it.
 
Looking at the canopy design, I was wondering if the guide tabs could be used as an additional safety latch.

Has anyone else tried a modification based on that?
 
Looking at the canopy design, I was wondering if the guide tabs could be used as an additional safety latch.

Has anyone else tried a modification based on that?

Adding a lock to the guide tabs would not be anything more than a variation of adding a canopy key lock. Basically, you make the tab about an inch longer and cut a slot in it. Might need a sliding lock engagement mechanism as you could not directly access that area sitting in the seat.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
Just more data…did a webinar a few months ago where FAA investigated an RV-12 that witnesses said suddenly dove into the ground. The impact was hard enough to flatten the wings’ leading edges almost back to the spar. Evidence pointed pretty clearly to an unlatched canopy. I posted earlier on this thread about my wife’s incident in our RV-6 that got pretty dicey when the canopy unlatched. I spent a bit of time going over the latches and found no problems. You can be sure they get a good look on every condition inspection, too. Come to think if it, just before we bought this same airplane, the last owner and I were flying it on the demo flight when the canopy unlatched. He was the pilot flying, and the airplane seemed to fly fine. We could not get the canopy down the last inch or so and landed uneventfully with me holding it. On the ground, we just latched it down properly and took off again without a nervous thought. Very strange that we had two different situations to the same condition on the same airplane. Go figure. Anyway, I check the canopy very closely before takeoff and we’ve never had any more trouble.


I would imagine the pilot was trying to fly and try and close the canopy at the same time, perhaps causing a stall or pitch command to the ground. I doubt the canopy being open was the cause by itself.
 
Adding a lock to the guide tabs would not be anything more than a variation of adding a canopy key lock. Basically, you make the tab about an inch longer and cut a slot in it. Might need a sliding lock engagement mechanism as you could not directly access that area sitting in the seat.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS

That would likely make it more difficult for you to get out or for others to open the canopy in an emergency.
 
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