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EarthX Batteries

olyolson

olyolson

Well Known Member
Friend
Anyone have one of these and what do you think? My Odyssey PC 925 has lasted 3 years now and seems to charge OK in flight at 14.3V. After landing the battery shows 12.6V. If I don't fly for a couple days the battery drops to around 11.5V and sometimes is hard to start. Contemplating the EarthX to replace the Odyssey to get more cold cranking amps. Since I have an IO-360 and a C/S prop shoehorned into the cowl I have to have the battery behind the back seat for weight & balance. Which means quite a long cable to the starter which equates to a pretty hefty battery. By using the EartHX I can instantly save 23 pounds.

Comments??
 
We put one of the 900's on the firewall of our bush plane, and I have never seen an IO-360 crank so fast! Amazing battery - survived Phase I, and now we'll see how it does over the long haul.
 
Yes, I have one

And I have installed many others. Search some of the threads as I know I posted on some testing I did. These batteries are amazing, and so far seem to be OK. The 20 lbs of weight savings in the aft end of the RV10 was a nice bonus as well.

Vic
 
I would like to replace my Concorde battery with an EarthX. Over the weekend I perused the EarthX User's Manual and found this caution:

35jxd39.jpg


In my -4, the existing (lead acid gel cell) battery is mounted between my feet. I consider this more or less in the cockpit. It is not vented. Am I increasing my risk by putting an EarthX battery in this location?

What have others done to comply with this recommendation? (Other than to locate the battery forward of the firewall...)

Thanks in advance,

Dean
 
I put mine forward of the firewall, but you have to note that the EarthX has a low maximum temperature allowed. I am going to use some temperature stickers to monitor it.
 
vic syracuse said:
And I have installed many others. Search some of the threads as I know I posted on some testing I did. These batteries are amazing, and so far seem to be OK. The 20 lbs of weight savings in the aft end of the RV10 was a nice bonus as well.

Vic
Click to expand...

Vic - do you see any need from a safety standpoint to enclose the EarthX and vent the enclosure overboard if installed in the standard location in the -10?

If I was anticipating a similar installation and location, will I need to mod the factory battery tray? Easier to do now while the aft skin is off...

If shedding 20# of weight in the tail is beneficial, what about moving the EarthX to FWF? Is that too much of a good thing in the -10? I read of some planes requiring water- or tool kit-ballast when flown with rear seats or baggage bay empty.

Thanks. Timely thoughts for me at this stage.
 
Just a heads up....

So, I ordered the EarthX replacement for the PC-680 after taking (what I thought) were fairly precise measurements of my existing Van's battery box. I sure thought that sucker would fit in there...

The EarthX battery wouldn't fit it...no way, no how. There's a slight taper to the Odyssey battery case that doesn't exist in the EarthX.

A call to EarthX later confirmed that fact...

I could have ordered EarthX's battery box...for another 50 bucks, but didn't want to get that deep into a simple battery upgrade project and just sent the entire shebang back for a refund and ordered a new PC-680.
 
Aggie78 said:
The EarthX battery wouldn't fit it...no way, no how. There's a slight taper to the Odyssey battery case that doesn't exist in the EarthX.
Click to expand...

A nice modification to the Vans battery box is to cut out the front of it and reinstall using some leftover hinge material at the front corners. Pull the hinge pins and your battery can be removed out the front instead of only from the top, which frees up some firewall space that would otherwise have to remain open. I bet you could also do this mod and add in that extra 1/16 inch that would allow use of the EarthX battery as well.

erich
 
Bill Boyd said:
Vic - do you see any need from a safety standpoint to enclose the EarthX and vent the enclosure overboard if installed in the standard location in the -10?

If I was anticipating a similar installation and location, will I need to mod the factory battery tray? Easier to do now while the aft skin is off...

If shedding 20# of weight in the tail is beneficial, what about moving the EarthX to FWF? Is that too much of a good thing in the -10? I read of some planes requiring water- or tool kit-ballast when flown with rear seats or baggage bay empty.

Thanks. Timely thoughts for me at this stage.
Click to expand...

I did not enclose it in a box. With the BMS system wired to the warning lights I think/hope to get adequate warning if something is amiss. Do make sure you wire the warning light.

I like the lighter battery in the RV-10, but I don't think I would move it to the firewall. The decreased weight does help with max weight/CG but when solo, as is most of my flying, I can notice a difference in the flare. It takes just a slight tough of power to get the nose up in the flare so as to not tough down on all three wheels at the same time. I have the lighter MT prop compared to the Hartzell, so it could even be worse with a heavier prop up front.

Vic
 
I am surprised to see so many readily installing lithium batteries in their RV's.

I have a EXT 12 EarthX as my backup battery for the panel in an RV-4. Currently it is temporarily mounted in the cabin, where it could be ejected in an all out emergency), here's why.

Lithium batteries as you know have experienced thermal runaway fires. As I have never heard of this problem with an EarthX battery let's hope it doesn't happen. (I know I know, EarthX batteries have built in circuitry to prevent these issues).

However, because of this (after all lithium's are banned from commercial passenger cargo), I am extremely hesitant to mount the battery anywhere that it is not immediately accessible in flight. If I mounted it next to the main battery (or replaced the main w EarthX), not only would it be inaccessible but also next to the fuel line.

In a fire lithium batteries can reach 1100f. Think about that hanging on your firewall or in your tail.

Also note

Food for thought.

As an aside, if you have an EarthX battery be sure to read about charging it when it is below 9v or so, there's a special process or it won't charge.

And some background:

http://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-recs/RecLetters/A-14-032-036.pdf

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...2012-02-01/battery-fires-keeping-li-ion-caged
 
V111Pilot said:
I have a EXT 12 EarthX as my backup battery for the panel in an RV-4. Currently it is temporarily mounted in the cabin, where it could be ejected in an all out emergency), here's why.
Click to expand...

Should it experience a thermal runaway (BMS etc. aside), you're going to be in a noxious cloud grasping at something incredibly hot while trying to decouple it and throw it overboard after the canopy you just jettisoned? Did I understand that correctly?

Anyway, there are different types of lithium batteries. There's a world of difference between lithium-ion batteries as referenced in your links and lithium iron phosphate batteries such as the EarthX. Much has been written about that difference here and elsewhere - it's worth a search.
 
Last edited:
ChiefPilot said:
Should it experience a thermal runaway (BMS etc. aside), you're going to be in a noxious cloud grasping at something incredibly hot while trying to decouple it and throw it overboard after the canopy you just jettisoned? Did I understand that correctly?
Click to expand...

I had the same thoughts when reading that, Brad.

The 787 APU batteries are Lithium-Cobalt chemistry. The EarthX is Lithium-Iron-Phosphate. Read more here:
http://www.epectec.com/batteries/lithium-battery-technologies.html
 
Last edited:
V111Pilot said:
I am surprised to see so many readily installing lithium batteries in their RV's.

I have a EXT 12 EarthX as my backup battery for the panel in an RV-4. Currently it is temporarily mounted in the cabin, where it could be ejected in an all out emergency), here's why.

Lithium batteries as you know have experienced thermal runaway fires. As I have never heard of this problem with an EarthX battery let's hope it doesn't happen. (I know I know, EarthX batteries have built in circuitry to prevent these issues).

However, because of this (after all lithium's are banned from commercial passenger cargo), I am extremely hesitant to mount the battery anywhere that it is not immediately accessible in flight. If I mounted it next to the main battery (or replaced the main w EarthX), not only would it be inaccessible but also next to the fuel line.

In a fire lithium batteries can reach 1100f. Think about that hanging on your firewall or in your tail.

Also note

Food for thought.

As an aside, if you have an EarthX battery be sure to read about charging it when it is below 9v or so, there's a special process or it won't charge.

And some background:

http://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-recs/RecLetters/A-14-032-036.pdf

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...2012-02-01/battery-fires-keeping-li-ion-caged
Click to expand...
Well, I was going to post some of the same thoughts as were presented in the above two comments. Not ALL Lithium batteries have the same characteristics.

Be sure that your fears are based on sound principles. Read the facts then decide. Please don't just rely on something you may have heard on an internet website. That goes for this site, and for that matter, this very post.

Recreation and EDUCATION. Isn't that what the FAA states we are to do with our amateur building?
 
LiFEPo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) has a great track record for thermal stability. You can put a drill right through it, no fire (very little heat). All the batteries we're talking about are this chemistry.

Now LiPo (Lithium Polymer)... laptop batteries, cell phones, EVs and Japanese Airliners. What do these things all share in common again? Oh yeah, Elon Musk.
 
V111Pilot said:
I am surprised to see so many readily installing lithium batteries in their RV's.

I have a EXT 12 EarthX as my backup battery for the panel in an RV-4. Currently it is temporarily mounted in the cabin, where it could be ejected in an all out emergency), here's why.

Lithium batteries as you know have experienced thermal runaway fires. As I have never heard of this problem with an EarthX battery let's hope it doesn't happen. (I know I know, EarthX batteries have built in circuitry to prevent these issues).

However, because of this (after all lithium's are banned from commercial passenger cargo), I am extremely hesitant to mount the battery anywhere that it is not immediately accessible in flight. If I mounted it next to the main battery (or replaced the main w EarthX), not only would it be inaccessible but also next to the fuel line.

In a fire lithium batteries can reach 1100f. Think about that hanging on your firewall or in your tail.

Also note

Food for thought.


As an aside, if you have an EarthX battery be sure to read about charging it when it is below 9v or so, there's a special process or it won't charge.

And some background:

http://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-recs/RecLetters/A-14-032-036.pdf

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...2012-02-01/battery-fires-keeping-li-ion-caged
Click to expand...

As a side note, something I learned today is the primary reason lithium batteries are banned from cargo compartments in aircraft is the fire extinguishing system in a cargo fire use only halon. A liquid such as water is required to cool a lithium battery to extinguish it. Halon will put the flame out but lithium can ignite again due to the thermal runaway.
 
Excellent points.

Don't get me wrong- I LIKE MY EARTHX BATTERY!

And yes, I'd gladly jettison a canopy to get rid of a battery on fire, and that would automatically active the EVS (Emergency Ventilation System) :)
As it is only backing up avionics it has 16 Ga wire leads that would be self detaching in an emergency :)

But I'd rather have a chance at getting rid of it than have it sealed behind a panel or in the tail (even if this only satisfies my warped sense of risk management).

Any suggestions for a permanent mounting spot in a -4??

Yes, there are different types/categories of LI batteries. So the follow on question: What type of lithium does the 787 use?

I believe True Blue (FAA Certified) LI Batts are LiFePO4 yet they still have a very robust containment system (case).
 
V111Pilot said:
Excellent points.

Don't get me wrong- I LIKE MY EARTHX BATTERY!

And yes, I'd gladly jettison a canopy to get rid of a battery on fire, and that would automatically active the EVS (Emergency Ventilation System) :)
As it is only backing up avionics it has 16 Ga wire leads that would be self detaching in an emergency :)

But I'd rather have a chance at getting rid of it than have it sealed behind a panel or in the tail (even if this only satisfies my warped sense of risk management).

Any suggestions for a permanent mounting spot in a -4??

Yes, there are different types/categories of LI batteries. So the follow on question: What type of lithium does the 787 use?

I believe True Blue (FAA Certified) LI Batts are LiFePO4 yet they still have a very robust containment system (case).
Click to expand...

The 787 use Lithium Cobalt batteries.

EarthX uses Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. Completely different chemistry.

Watch a few videos of the punishment LiFePo4 (like the EarthX cells) can take without having a catastrophic thermal runaway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZf2pKzBErk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBapfB0Imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XymqQ-YlfJ0

Yes, sometimes they will smoke, and yes, I have seen them slowly burn a bit after EXTREME damage (nothing like the flamethrower failure mode of LiPo)... but put a standard lead acid battery (full of sulfuric acid and hydrogen outgassing) thru the same test. I'll take the LiFePo4 any day.

And on top of that, EarthX still has a BMS to prevent the most likely form of damage, overcharging or undercharging. If you get physical damage to your battery, there is something else very wrong, and the battery is probably the least of your worries!
 
V111Pilot said:
I believe True Blue (FAA Certified) LI Batts are LiFePO4 yet they still have a very robust containment system (case).
Click to expand...
Yes well you could contribute that POLICY to engineers protecting their margin. Conservative containment for safeties sake is always going to be the default with new technologies of any type.
 
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