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Anybody broke the code on cooling the oil on a 200HP version?

W

wgeslick

I'm New Here
Looking for help or ideas on cooling my IO-360-A1A. I (mistakenly) installed the 7-row baffle mounted Niagara cooler which is obviously too small, then added an 11-row used cooler on the other side in series. It is fed by a short piece of 4" orange duct. Oil temps still run in the 205 - 220 range. Tried adding louvers, no help. Boiled the Vernatherm and oil temp probe. Both check out. If you've been there, you know the Phillips XC 20W-50 which is recommended for break-in gets way too thin as you approach 220 and the oil pressure drops precipitously.

Presently installing a temporary oil flow meter inline with the coolers to verify that flow is actually happening.

If anyone has conquered this problem successfully (and I know you are out there), please tell me what size cooler you use and how it is mounted. Looks like I MIGHT have enough room to install the (Van's) recommended RV-10 cooler on the firewall, but would like any other ideas that might salvage what I already have.

Thanks for any insights......
 
Just to be clear, you have the engine with oil jets under the pistons? What oil temp would you see in summer at 70% cruise?
 
CHTs run in the low to mid 300s. Seems to be plenty of air. As I said, I added louvers on the bottom of the cowl and absolutely nothing changed temperature-wise.
 
are the coolers mounted verticle? There has been success with plumbing the inlet to the bottom of the cooler and outlet out the top. It purges the air out of the cooler. People have seen as much as 20 degree improvement.
 
Great = 42

DanH said:
Stephen, can you translate "great" into temperature units please?
Click to expand...

I have an inline restrictor on the airflow to the oil cooler controlled from the cabin and need to reduce airflow most of the year to keep temps above 180 for typical cruise... in hot temperature with full power for extended periods I have never seen higher than 215.

Last week I did a 5 minute full power climb from 130 ft to 10.3k and saw a maximum oil temperature of 191 with CHT temps from 371 to 404. OSA on the ground was in the mid 60s and 32 at 10k so it was not all that hot to start with but I have never run into a situation where CHT or Oil temps limited operations in any way.

Typical cruise CHT is around 280-300 up high or at lower power and 330-350 down low at 65-75% power... Full throttle high speed runs at 80-95% power bring the CHTs up to 370-400 with oil temps easily regulated.

I am going to do several SARL events this year and will have a some data from hotter climates and longer full throttle runs but with nearly 400 hours on the tach I can sum up the numbers easily as... GREAT, or 42 ;)
 
[email protected] said:
Last week I did a 5 minute full power climb from 130 ft to 10.3k and saw a maximum oil temperature of 191 with CHT temps from 371 to 404. OSA on the ground was in the mid 60s and 32 at 10k..... Typical cruise CHT is around 280-300 up high or at lower power and 330-350 down low at 65-75% power... Full throttle high speed runs at 80-95% power bring the CHTs up to 370-400 with oil temps easily regulated.
Click to expand...

Thanks, good baseline on an obviously nice, tidy install.

I was out this AM gathering exit velocity data and recorded the CHT and oil temps at four speeds. Test conditions were 3500 pressure altitude and 75F OAT (83F on the ground). Total cowl outlet area was set at 32 sq in less the pipe area, about half the standard RV-8 cowl exit area. IO-390 with a SW 10599 cooler, which is about 2" shorter than your 20006A.

134 TAS 309 avg CHT 202F oil
155 TAS 323 avg CHT 202F oil
171 TAS 334 avg CHT 204F oil
192 TAS 326 avg CHT 209F oil

These temperature values represent a future variable exit in the fully closed position on a hot day. Put another way, I won't cook anything if I forget to open the exit. Opening the exit will drop the oil temps into the 180's.

Looking for help or ideas on cooling my IO-360-A1A.
Click to expand...

Wgeslick, it certainly sounds like you have enough cooler area. I'd love to hear an actual oil flow measurement.
 
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We had to use a SW10599R on the RV-8 in my avatar. It has a 192hp parallel-valve ECI Titan engine with oil squirters. Oil temps still can get a bit high in climbs in the Texas heat but for the most part it does the job. The NDM 7-row cooler was woefully inadequate.

If you've got the angle valve 200hp IO-360, then you need the big 13-row cooler for that engine. Finding a place to mount it on an RV-7 is a bit challenging. For a short while, I had the 13-row cooler mounted on the rear baffle on the RV-8, it almost fit... but proved to be rubbing on the cowl and the motor mount a bit, so we removed it and installed the SW10599R. The big 13-row Aero Classic did a wonderful job of cooling too, maybe a bit too good of a job since when it was on I had difficulty getting the oil temp up above 160 on the way to Oshkosh and back.
 
broke the code

started out with 13 row niagara on the firewall with 3" scat to baffle..ot high.

changed to 4" scat...ot still high (230 and climbing)

checked verantherm, changed to thinner gasket for better seating.. small change to the good.

all this time chts were in the low 300's.

removed 3/4 " from #1 front baffle....OT now ~ 185 degrees. problem solved.
 
11 years success

I have an angle valve A1B in my 8. Been running nice and cool for 11 years until the last couple weeks.

My setup.
7 row cooler on the firewall, 3" scat tube exiting out the bottom and normal cowl exit. Nothing out of the ordinary. Been running in the 170-180 range forever.

A couple weeks ago oil temp jumped about 30 degrees between one flight and the next. Couldn't figure it out. Cooler was clean and free of any obstruction. Baffling hadn't changed a bit, just running hotter and OP was lower because of the higher temps.

Today, I pulled the vernatherm and found a very distinct groove rubbed in the machined part that seats in the oil filter housing.

7283196502_bc36d24e24_b.jpg


It's about a 32nd of an inch deep and about 220 degrees around the seat.

Lycoming and Skyranch have articles that state the seat of the vernatherm has to make 100% contact to seal and actually bypass the hot oil to the cooler so tomorrow I'll order a new vernatherm and try that.

I'll let you know how that works. I can't find anything else to look for.

Everything I've read says it's either airflow, clogged hoses or cooler or a bad vernatherm if you cylinders are healthy. Mine are brand new and very healthy.
 
I had oil tempt issues -IO390, Sam James cowl and plenum with 13 row double pass SW oil cooler remotely mounted with 4 inch duct. Cylinder head tempts less than 350, oil tempt well over 200 and above 220 in climb. This engine has high volume oil squirters on the base of the pistons which does a good job of cooling the pistons by putting the heat in the oil. I solved the problem after many different approaches after realizing the air was not able to fully exit from the cooler. The cooler was remotely mounted at 45 deg behind cylinder #3 with a 4 inch duct bringing air from the back of the engine plenum to a plenum I made over the oil cooler. What I discovered was air was flowing straight down thru the cylinders into lower cowl chute around the exhaust pipes and out. I pictured this like a high volume stream flowing down a narrow trough. Here comes the air exiting the oil cooler off to the right, that I theorized was coming straight down into the corner of the lower cowl, probably tumbling around, and trying unsuccessfully to merge with the cylinder air around the exhaust pipes. I envisioned this restricting the air flow thru the cooler.

OK, the solution. I did two things. First I made an aluminum exit funnel from the oil cooler exit leading down to the lower cowl chute with the exhaust pipes -this kept the air laminar and gave it an entrance into the cylinder air stream. It had no effect on cylinder tempts. The second thing I did was add a 45deg flange or lip to the lower cowl exit. I experimented with sizes and ended up with 1/2inch x 12inch. My oil tempts now run 185 deg and have not gone above 195.

Sorry this was so long, but I was trying to provide a good description. Hope this helps.
 
Pics please?!

RKURRLE said:
I had oil tempt issues -IO390, Sam James cowl and plenum with 13 row double pass SW oil cooler remotely mounted with 4 inch duct. Cylinder head tempts less than 350, oil tempt well over 200 and above 220 in climb. This engine has high volume oil squirters on the base of the pistons which does a good job of cooling the pistons by putting the heat in the oil. I solved the problem after many different approaches after realizing the air was not able to fully exit from the cooler. The cooler was remotely mounted at 45 deg behind cylinder #3 with a 4 inch duct bringing air from the back of the engine plenum to a plenum I made over the oil cooler. What I discovered was air was flowing straight down thru the cylinders into lower cowl chute around the exhaust pipes and out. I pictured this like a high volume stream flowing down a narrow trough. Here comes the air exiting the oil cooler off to the right, that I theorized was coming straight down into the corner of the lower cowl, probably tumbling around, and trying unsuccessfully to merge with the cylinder air around the exhaust pipes. I envisioned this restricting the air flow thru the cooler.

OK, the solution. I did two things. First I made an aluminum exit funnel from the oil cooler exit leading down to the lower cowl chute with the exhaust pipes -this kept the air laminar and gave it an entrance into the cylinder air stream. It had no effect on cylinder tempts. The second thing I did was add a 45deg flange or lip to the lower cowl exit. I experimented with sizes and ended up with 1/2inch x 12inch. My oil tempts now run 185 deg and have not gone above 195.

Sorry this was so long, but I was trying to provide a good description. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
This is a photo of the remote oil cooler mounted of the firewall behind cylinder 3. You can see the 4 inch duct going to a carbon fiber plenum over the oil cooler to distribute the air over the entire face of the cooler. I do not have a photo of the aluminum funnel I made - I will take a photo next time I have the cowl off. But it basically goes from the outlet of the cooler down to the exhaust pipes so the exit air from the cooler has a way to get into the airstream exiting the cowl:
148d853.jpg
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This is a photo of the lip I attached to the lower cowl exit:
21kw07k.jpg
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