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Insulation for Winter Flying

caissyd

I'm New Here
Hi everyone,

I am currently building a 9A in Canada and, once completed, I intend to fly it 12 months per year! So since I am making good progress on the fuselage, it's time to start thinking about insulation for the cold winter months.

There are many products available online, but if you have insulated your RV against the cold, I'm curious to know what you have used and if you have seen a significant difference compared to other planes that aren't insulated.

And is insulation even worth it (price, extra weight)?
 
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Best thing is to keep down the drafts that can get in. Good Seal of gaps around canopy are a must. Another is air coming in under the seat through the gear legs. Also good seal on fresh air vents.
Once sealed from air leakage it is pretty warm even on cold days. Flying on sunny days also helps stay cozy.
 
I am not aware of insulation needs but I think the key issues in my -7 are cold air leaks from various locations. If you can address these, it will be a lot easier to heat. I have a cold draft up next to my seat under my armpit. It may be my flap rod hole, but I digress . . . . there are may locations where cold air can get in, they are best addressed/sealed when all opened up while building.

I only have a single heat muff and it is pretty comfortable down to -5F. (w/baby blankets stuffed between the seat back and fuse)

With two muffs and increasing the heat air flow (I have a 3/4" inch flow orifice) the envelope could be expanded.

Edit: Philip beat me to it. !!!
 
Thanks plehrke and BillL for your quick responses, it makes a lot of sense to prevent cold air infiltration! I guess that Aileron Pushrod Boots are one way for blocking cold air getting in. I'm planning on having heated seats as well.

Is insulation even needed then?
 
I've found it easier and more efficient, weight wise, to just insulate the occupant. Long johns and a vest have served me well so far, and no lugging the extra weight around ... year 'round.

and stop the drafts like others have said. Push rod boots, stick boots, aft bulkhead corrugations, canopy leaks.

Single heat muff and so far so good. The only cold spot that annoys me is where my left knee rest against the cabin wall. Maybe I'll add a patch of velcro and a cushion on that spot!

Cheers
 
I live in Michigan and fly year round. I did eliminate all the drafts I could and I dress warmer in the winter. The closest I came to insulating is installing interior side panels which insulate it a little. My RV6 warmed up pretty well but I think my RV8 warms up better but I wouldn't to ride in the back seat in the cold weather very long.
 
Dress for outside and hunt air drafts

I would suggest as others said to dress for the outside temps.
Not only to be comfortably warm in the cabin but to be properly dressed if an unexpected off airport landing occurs. You want to be warm enough for a couple of hours outside. Imagine landing in a field at dusk, waiting for rescue that might come the next morning...

I fly with racing shoes to have a better feel for the rudder, warm long underwear beneath my jeans, long sleeved warm underwear and one or two extra layers. Thin gloves that have "touch" finger tips are available if needed.
If you choose well, today's winter clothing can be very warm while being light and thin.

I keep warm boots, hat, gloves and a "winter kit" in a bag on the rear seat (still flying solo, burning the hours to get the restrictions lifted after 25 hours).
In that kit, I have an emergency blanket, a small dome tent, lighters, pocket warmers, flashlight, knife, cup and energy bars.
Yeah overkill for a short afternoon local hop, but it's small, light and I prefer having it than wishing for it...

In the 8, I didn't install any kind of insulation. (search for insulation here and you will find pros and cons, namely concerning fire and smoke hazards).

I had quite a draft coming from the rear.
I "sealed" the rear part of the canopy skirt with foam weatherstripping and eliminated most of the air coming in.
I have just one heat muff and electrically heated seats that rarely get turned on. I flew for 90 minutes at -15C lately and did not feel cold.

For decades, I fly all year long and don't feel cold while in the air despite the timid heating systems in aircooled engine equiped aircrafts.
 
I used super sound proofing in both my RV10 and RV8A. Thicker behind firewall and thinner on the sides. The RV10 stays very warm down to 0 degrees F, while the RV8A is cold below about 32 degrees F. Not sure how much the insulation helps, but the two big differences for my planes are that the heat muffs on the 10 are much bigger and there are 2 of them, providing hot air down to 0F, while the 8A has one small muff and provides almost no heat below 32F. Other big difference is the 10 is well sealed with door seals, while the 8 canopy even with seals allows large amounts of cold air in through the back. Also make sure you seal your cold air vents to minimize leakage there.
 
Thanks for the good responses everyone!

I currently fly a Cessna 150 here in Canada, so I know very well how to dress inside a non-insulated airplane. I always bring warm clothes and extra food in case of an emergency. My 150 sits outside, so I need warm clothes just to prepare the airplane for the flight and when I put the tarps back on. Since the sun sets at 4:30pm in winter, it gets pretty cold in the evening.

But I want to be able to visit my parents who live quite far away, so I need to be confortable on a 3-hour flight at -20C/-4F Outside Air Temperature, at cruise altitude. I don't want to have a bulky coat on all the time, just a light and confortable jacket. The coat will be just behind me.

In addition, the aviation grade insulation products are approved by the FAA against fire, etc. I'm talking about those products, not your average home hardward stuff. I would really like something that comes close to a car in terms of insulation. :)
 
the heat muffs on the 10 are much bigger and there are 2 of them, providing hot air down to 0F, while the 8A has one small muff and provides almost no heat below 32F.

AaronG, did you modify the 10 to get two heat muffs or make them bigger, or they are stock? It seems like a good idea to check that for my 9A...
 
They were stock on the RV10 at least in 2008, as well as the RV8A in 2001. On the 10, one muff feeds the front, while the other feeds the back. For a 2 seater you likely only need one. On the 8A the muff that wraps around the exhaust pipe is maybe 4 inches in diameter while on the 10 it is 6 to 8 inches and maybe a bit longer. I suspect the bigger size transfers more heat. Make sure you have enough space in the cowl however if you are going to deviate from the standard size.
 
One other note, on the RV10 when it is 0F on the ground, I still fly with just a regular shirt, and it is as warm as a car with no drafts. So it’s possible if you get the plane sealed properly with big enough heat muffs to keep the hot air flowing.
 
I built my 9A with winter flying in mind as it gets cold here in Alberta (wind chill below -40 for much of the past week). Dual heat muffs, foil insulation on the inside of my lower outer skins under the floor as well as the baggage wall, push rod boots and heated seats. I've never used the heated seats, cabin heat is rarely fully opened. I don't think the insulation was all that necessary.

As others have mentioned, a very good canopy seal is vital - I have a tip up and have adhesive weatherstripping the full length under the canopy frame sides. Probably the single best defense that I have. I'm not one who likes to be overly warm, I dress safely for the weather but only just. The plane, in flight, is quite comfortable in cold temperatures.

The real truth is that I choose to stay home rather than fly when it is -20C or colder because of the trip to the airport and the handling of the airplane on the ramp in the cold rather than the conditions in the plane. This means not much flying lately.
 
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