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Newspaper: Home-built aircraft causing a concern

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
The Arizona Republic story is...err... interesting. Particularly the part about noting the crash of a Mooney, indicating it's not experimental, but then saying experimental aircraft are a concern.

That said, the article is actually pretty fair and balanced. The headline is usually not written by the reporter, but by some slob in a cubicle who usually can't tell you if it's daylight out or not.

I don't know Roger Whittier, the RV builder in the piece, but I'd like to thank him for at least trying to provide the reporter with some guidance that I think held some sway in the piece itself.
 
....the article is actually pretty fair and balanced. The headline is usually not written by the reporter, but by some slob in a cubicle who usually can't tell you if it's daylight out or not.

You're right. After the headline and the first two paragraphs, I was expecting the worst... but it actually had facts and they took the time to get information from EAA.

The problem is some people will just read the headline, skim the first paragraph, and decide that one of those experimental death traps is going to fall on them and kill their entire family... then tell everyone else they know what they "read."
 
The article is interesting but I wonder what the non-aviation reader will take away? My guess is, experimental aircraft make up 10% of the fleet and cause 15% of the accidents and 21% of the fatalities. I wonder if that's actually a statistically fair comparison?

It seems to me that hours flown would be a better baseline to compare accident rates too than percentage of the fleet. Even this is inadequate by itself but makes a better 'talking point' than the one given.

My guess is experimental aircraft fly more than average, but I don't have any data, just my limited experience.
 
My guess is experimental aircraft fly more than average, but I don't have any data, just my limited experience.

I'm reminded of a Richard Collins study which suggested that most airplane accidents -- experimental and certificated -- happen during the transitioning period of the pilot, regardless of experience.

I don't know if that's true or not, but sometimes I think we actually get hung up on the aircraft and the category.

To me, the experimental aircraft "problem" that is somewhat different than certificated aircraft is that the pilot has a period of eroding skills (while building) followed by a period of high-time flying, but I almost never see that in any story. Instead, it's portrayed as an unsafe aircraft that wouldn't be unsafe if a "professional' built it.
 
I thought that experimental aircraft in general actually flew less hours on average than the certified fleet, I'll look for numbers.

Interesting that the lead in to the article was about a Lancair IV-P crash - a type that has had a far above average accident rate, with a lot being fatalities.

Searching Lancair IV in the NTSB data base gives 42 hits with half being fatalities. The same search terms give 324 hits in the FAA registration data base. 21 fatal accidents in 324 (345?) produced is a much higher accident rate than most homebuilts I bet.

It's the high profile accidents - local store owner - that make the papers and tend to make it look worse for all homebuilts.
 
I despise the fact we have to be labeled as "experimental" aircraft...it always makes the uninformed cringe when they see it...as they question with a raised eyebrow, experimental?? We all know an RV is nowhere near "experimental" by any means, the EAA could do us all a favor by removing that description and replacing it with 'amatuer built.'
 
Let's not forget that "little" airplanes are cause for great concern among the general public, and in most cases "little" means anything with propellers. Once you get down to the specific terms "experimental?, homebuilt" "amateur built", etc, you're really in the weeds. At that point, one really needs to be familiar with the industry to draw the distinction. After all, even many of the "store-bought" pilot crowd thinks we're all nuts too.
 
I despise the fact we have to be labeled as "experimental" aircraft...it always makes the uninformed cringe when they see it...as they question with a raised eyebrow, experimental?? We all know an RV is nowhere near "experimental" by any means, the EAA could do us all a favor by removing that description and replacing it with 'amatuer built.'

I know how you feel. Try getting into aerobatics, now you are a "stunt pilot" flying a "stunt plane". And that's from other pilots! It's even worse from the general public, much less the media....yeeesh!
 
On the other hand..

I was selling aerobatic rides at a big airshow in Memphis once in my Extra. A friend of mine that flew airshows for the National Guard had hired me to come up to give some media rides for him since I had a two place airplane. One of my rides was a guy that happened to be drag racing motorcycles at the track near the airport, and after he rode with me he invited me over to the drag race track to watch. These guys were getting up to ridiculous speeds, well over 200mph in the 1/4 mile I guess it was. I looked at him, and said "You guys are crazy!" He shrugged and said, "that's what we think about you airshow guys!"
 
You will never get "experimental" separated from "amateur built" unless you are willing to put up with a host of new regulations, not unlike the difference in building an RV-12 to LSA standards (no changes allowed) vs E-AB.

"We all know an RV is nowhere near "experimental" by any means"

Is this true? What about the guy who arbitrarily upped his gross weight by 100 lbs? How do I know that under the cowl there isn't a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine? Maybe it's running on used olive oil?

My point is, under the current rules there is no differentiation between a plans built RV and one that has been highly modified.
 
I despise the fact we have to be labeled as "experimental" aircraft...it always makes the uninformed cringe when they see it...as they question with a raised eyebrow, experimental?? We all know an RV is nowhere near "experimental" by any means, the EAA could do us all a favor by removing that description and replacing it with 'amatuer built.'

I looked at enough RV4's to know that no two are built the same. Sure they might have the same engine, but there are so many differences.
 
Let's not forget that "little" airplanes are cause for great concern among the general public, and in most cases "little" means anything with propellers. Once you get down to the specific terms "experimental?, homebuilt" "amateur built", etc, you're really in the weeds. At that point, one really needs to be familiar with the industry to draw the distinction. After all, even many of the "store-bought" pilot crowd thinks we're all nuts too.

I like this observation. I guess I had never really thought of it that way but you are totally right. For the vast majority of conversations, if it has a little propeller on the front, it is cause for great concern and maybe should be banned. Have a conversation with a lot of people that have flown on a regional air-carrier turbo prop and most of them will call it a scary little 'puddle jumper'.
 
Never?

You will never get "experimental" separated from "amateur built" unless you are willing to put up with a host of new regulations, not unlike the difference in building an RV-12 to LSA standards (no changes allowed) vs E-AB.

Just an FYI, in Canada we don't have "experimental" airplanes, just "amateur built".
 
Is this true? What about the guy who arbitrarily upped his gross weight by 100 lbs? How do I know that under the cowl there isn't a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine? Maybe it's running on used olive oil?

My point is, under the current rules there is no differentiation between a plans built RV and one that has been highly modified.

You have a valid point, but my counter argument would be that by the time I am done flying off my 40 hrs, my deviations from plans are no longer "experimental" and I am 100% confident in my aircraft. The test period is over and I feel comfortable taking passengers. I dont plan to "experiment" with my passengers lives and I cant blame them for seeing that term plastered across the aircraft and not wanting to be a guinea pig. I still say "experimental" is not the proper phrase we should be using for our aircraft....it just says "uproven design" to me.
 
I "experiment" with my airplane all the time. Trying new fairings, scoops or other mods trying to eke out a little more speed, power, economy, comfort, etc. I embrace the moniker, and I have never had a passenger about to climb in, see the "EXPERIMENTAL" lettering, and then withdraw.
 
I "experiment" with my airplane all the time. Trying new fairings, scoops or other mods trying to eke out a little more speed, power, economy, comfort, etc. I embrace the moniker, and I have never had a passenger about to climb in, see the "EXPERIMENTAL" lettering, and then withdraw.

Granted, but you're there to ease their concerns and explain the nuances of "experimental"...Joe Blow reading the newspaper probably doesnt know anything about experimental aircraft and doesnt feel good about someone experimenting over his house or family. Its all about perception...if a person isnt educated about our planes (which most arent), I promise you seeing experimental flying machines in the paper or on the internet does not give them warm and fuzzy feelings.

Dont get me wrong...I'm with you, I love the ability to experiment too and I certainly dont want that right to be taken away from us, but I think I've made my point and I suppose we have gotten a little off topic from the OP so I'm done. :)
 
That's me

I am one of the builders in that article (I do not know the guy from Mesa). They got my number from our EAA website, which I am chapter president of... I know enough from my pre retirement media training to be skeptical, very skeptical. A couple of blanks I can fill in. The reporter already had the Stern Lancair 4 crash in mind (that was a big deal around here) and had found the FAA data on experimental crash rates. So where he was headed was not good, you know, experimentals are killing unknowing pilots... He already had the information we dread having incorrectly portrayed and publicized. I asked him if he was open to the counterpoints. He seemed to be. I provided data from other studies and asked that he read it before we talked more. He asked if he could see my project. I agreed.

I made sure he saw Van's build drawings (the whole stack and the one that I was doing at the time). And tools, books, parts, raw materials and then things made from those raw materials, etc... My project, which is wired, rolls around and is starting to look like an airplane instead of a pile of parts was probably at a perfect stage for a non builder to see. He was fascinated by the work and the level of complexity to build it. I powered up the panel, which is pretty well equipped. I wanted to demonstrate this is not unknowing and unregulated, we talked for quite a while. I covered the DAR inspection process. He realized this is not a simple and scary case of a guy with a toolbox just fooling around in the garage and then going out flying to endanger folks on the ground.

In the end I "think" I turned what could have been a negative piece into something neutral, probably better than neutral. At least he saw it as a legitimate activity that, while having some inherent risks, is not a willy nilly free for all and is not as unsafe as the general public thinks.

As you pointed out, the title is generated by someone else to be eye grabbing, I wish I could have influenced that. But otherwise I am pleased how it went and I think the piece served our community well.

Others comments in this thread are right, little planes scare people. Most think we are nuts to build a plane let alone actually fly it. But if we educate others about what we are doing and how we take it seriously we win. We won't convert them to becoming pilots or builders. But we can convert them from blindly scared of what we do to at least respecting it. Even if they choose not to join, they will not join the chorus against us.

Thanks for the feedback.

The Arizona Republic story is...err... interesting. Particularly the part about noting the crash of a Mooney, indicating it's not experimental, but then saying experimental aircraft are a concern.

That said, the article is actually pretty fair and balanced. The headline is usually not written by the reporter, but by some slob in a cubicle who usually can't tell you if it's daylight out or not.

I don't know Roger Whittier, the RV builder in the piece, but I'd like to thank him for at least trying to provide the reporter with some guidance that I think held some sway in the piece itself.
 
I "experiment" with my airplane all the time. Trying new fairings, scoops or other mods trying to eke out a little more speed, power, economy, comfort, etc. I embrace the moniker, and I have never had a passenger about to climb in, see the "EXPERIMENTAL" lettering, and then withdraw.

****, I did that with my certified airplane. :D
 
When I give newbies a ride in my -10 and they ask where it was made, I tell them, Big Fork, Montana, by three guys.
They usually ask, "Not built by a factory?" My usual response is, "No, better..you see, these guys really wanted to build this airplane. The factory guys have to do it to make a living."

Best,
 
...In the end I "think" I turned what could have been a negative piece into something neutral, probably better than neutral. At least he saw it as a legitimate activity that, while having some inherent risks, is not a willy nilly free for all and is not as unsafe as the general public thinks.

As you pointed out, the title is generated by someone else to be eye grabbing, I wish I could have influenced that. But otherwise I am pleased how it went and I think the piece served our community well...

Roger, thank you for taking the time and effort to represent homebuilt aviation in a positive light!
 
I am one of the builders in that article (I do not know the guy from Mesa).

Roger,

Thanks for the time out to get that "other side" out there.
I've had 3 copies of that article come by my office today.
Everyone around here knows I'm more of a "risk taker" (re- NUTS):D
 
little planes scare people.

I would actually say "planes scare people." Just today a coworker told me a story of a commercial flight on a widebody into Munich that had to go-around due to traffic still on the runway. When the plane pulled up with the throttles firewalled, even one of the stoic Lufthansa flight attendants screamed, and the rest of the flight around the pattern everyone was scared for their lives. Sad that when a pilot makes an important safety call, people are afraid versus relieved.

Anyway, great job turning what could have been really bad press into a generally favorable article, headline notwithstanding.
 
He was fascinated by the work and the level of complexity to build it. I powered up the panel, which is pretty well equipped. I wanted to demonstrate this is not unknowing and unregulated, we talked for quite a while. I covered the DAR inspection process. He realized this is not a simple and scary case of a guy with a toolbox just fooling around in the garage and then going out flying to endanger folks on the ground.

Booya!!!!! This is exactly how we change the perception in the media. It's completely opposite that stupid AOPA "don't talk to reporters, just tell them to call us!" nonsense in that "how to handle the media" handout they gave out.

Inside every reporter, there's the little boy (or girl) who wanted to fly. Tap into that. Take a reporter flying, establish a relationship, let them know there IS another perspective. The luck here is that the reporter and Roger found their way to each other. The only additional suggestion I'd make is get into their Rolodexes (or whatever) before the story ever gets assigned to them.

Again I say, very well done, sir! I demand the opportunity to shake your hand.

By the way, how to talk to the media would be a GREAT forum at Oshkosh. If anyone from EAA is listening.
 
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Well done Roger.

By the way, how to talk to the media would be a GREAT forum at Oshkosh. If anyone from EAA is listening.

Bob, you're a good candidate to do the forum. And you could team with Roger, who clearly understands. Why not go for it?
 
Thanks, Dan. I'm sending a note over to EAA today.

I hope you get a chance to do it Bob - you have a unique perspective that can help everyone on both sides of the aisle. If there is one thing that I learned in 30+ years on the "interviewee" side of the microphone, it is that 95% of all the journalists really want to do a fair and balanced story, but they didn't spend their life learning aviation - they spent it learning how to write. They are blank canvases, empty sponges, waiting to be filled. We need to do our best to fill them honestly and truthfully, with rational statements and arguments - that's the best way to get "good press". The vast majority of the media is not our enemy - they just haven't yet been informed.

Of course, there are always that 5% we have to watch out for....just like the 5% of pilots you don't want to meet in the traffic pattern.... ;)
 
I feel a little sheepish...

In my former life as an executive I was forced to take annual media training. They taught me that it is ALWAYS dangerous to talk to the media as they will write what they do from their perspective and closing the barn door after you have talked to them is not an option. But you can vastly improve the odds. Fortunately I remembered what I was taught. And I felt well prepared to help in this situation.

I look forward to shaking your hand. The flying community is a great one and RV builders improve on that. OSH plans for me are a bit up in the air, grandchild due this summer and believe it or not my wife and daughter think that takes priority over flying. I don't understand them sometimes :rolleyes:

Just kidding. If everything goes well I will be there. I agree media training is a good subject for OSH.

Booya!!!!! This is exactly how we change the perception in the media. It's completely opposite that stupid AOPA "don't talk to reporters, just tell them to call us!" nonsense in that "how to handle the media" handout they gave out.

Inside every reporter, there's the little boy (or girl) who wanted to fly. Tap into that. Take a reporter flying, establish a relationship, let them know there IS another perspective. The luck here is that the reporter and Roger found their way to each other. The only additional suggestion I'd make is get into their Rolodexes (or whatever) before the story ever gets assigned to them.

Again I say, very well done, sir! I demand the opportunity to shake your hand.

By the way, how to talk to the media would be a GREAT forum at Oshkosh. If anyone from EAA is listening.
 
You will never get "experimental" separated from "amateur built" unless you are willing to put up with a host of new regulations, not unlike the difference in building an RV-12 to LSA standards (no changes allowed) vs E-AB.


I really liked Bob Knuckolls idea (years ago) of publicly using "Owner Built and Maintained" (OBAM). Simple, accurate, and no preconceived notions conveyed. Seems that society enjoys using terms that make the truth less scary/emotional/in-your-face (i.e. "marriage", "divorce", "abortion", "laywer", "law maker", "reporter", "corn syrup", etc....), not sure why some leading group couldn't accomplish the same (ugh.. EAA??). Better stop there or this will get real negative... ;-)
 
I really liked Bob Knuckolls idea (years ago) of publicly using "Owner Built and Maintained" (OBAM). Simple, accurate, and no preconceived notions conveyed. Seems that society enjoys using terms that make the truth less scary/emotional/in-your-face (i.e. "marriage", "divorce", "abortion", "laywer", "law maker", "reporter", "corn syrup", etc....), not sure why some leading group couldn't accomplish the same (ugh.. EAA??). Better stop there or this will get real negative... ;-)

I had to laugh when I read this. Imagine if the law was changed so that instead of putting "EXPERIMENTAL" in 3" letters clearly visible to all, we all had to put "OBAMA" -- Owner Built And Maintained Aircraft. THAT wouldn't be too in-your-face now would it? :)
 
I had to laugh when I read this. Imagine if the law was changed so that instead of putting "EXPERIMENTAL" in 3" letters clearly visible to all, we all had to put "OBAMA" -- Owner Built And Maintained Aircraft. THAT wouldn't be too in-your-face now would it? :)

LOL - I'm an idiot! I didn't make that connection til you said it. I retract my opinion that this is a good new acronym for us to use. :eek:
 
educating the press and news media

I had a tower operator give me a lecture on how experimental aircraft were a problem in controled air space. I took him for a demo ride in my RV4. We made landings on 34L 34R 16L 16R and 27 and 09. As a side note I took 8 of the tower operators up and made all the landings they requested
the complants ceased.:D
I am going to give a news paper, TV News reporter and a Radio News Caster a demo ride around Lake Tahoe before the snow melts. I think the education will be a boon to all aviation.:rolleyes:
 
The context of the potential article is key.

Scenario #1. Call up a local reporter take them for a ride.
Story- Check out this cool hobby!

Scenario #2. Airplane crashes into a home in urban area.
Story- Beware of death from above!

I suspect that Scenario #2 is where AOPA's concern rests. Will the reporter take the position of warning us how dangerous these deathtraps are or reassuring us of how aviation is generally safe with ongoing measures to improve safety? Not much sensationalism in the latter. Probably will not improve circulation.

I think we should all try to create more of scenario #1. I would be a little wary of discussing after a tragedy with a reporter I did not know personally before.
 
If you need a peg to make the call, the closing of towers certainly provides it. While I understand and am on the side of the private controllers, they're also saying some pretty inaccurate things in some articles now being written -- specifically, "without us, pilots are just going to have to figure it out on their own," intimating that (a) there isn't any sort of control plan in place around non-towered airports (b) pilots don't fly responsibly in that situation (well, sure, some pilots don't) and (c) hot metal will be falling from the sky.

also, in a lot of these stories, the voice of the local pilot is missing.

You don't have to take a stand on the issue, but it's not a bad idea to take a reporter for a ride while the local contract tower is still open, then go over to a busy non-towered airport.

In the process, you exchange business cards and you're off and running for the future.
 
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