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"new model" concerns

diamond

Well Known Member
After reading several years worth of RV-12 threads, two things are clear to me. It's a great little plane, but many of the early builders had to deal with shortcomings that were inherent to a completely new design. I'm wondering how many design flaws or shortcomings will be found on the RV-14 by early builders. I'm hoping not many, since the 14 shares many characteristics with other models, but I'd like to hear if others feel there will be many wrinkles to iron out before the 14 is clear of major issues.
 
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I think Vans does very well to engineer, design and produce a quality kit. could there be problems with a new design...yep. But not sure anyone else can do better.
 
We are all human and there will be something come up. Each new model has less and less issues. Any issue will be very minor compared to the first year of the -3, -4, or -6.
 
I was able to sit in the 14 this afternoon and see the stack of spars and other parts. The quality of that plane was very good. In no way did it look like a prototype. I looked at things like the edges of the flaps, elevator trim tab, fairings, and special attention to the nose wheel.

From what I heard, Vans will be building several more 14's for demos, east coast, testing, and I think just to show off! The stockpile of spars and shelves of parts all looked just like the kits I have seen. With the exactness of their CAD and cutting machines - I believe by the time they have built the 3-4 more (guess) they will have refined things pretty well. Using the basic design for the fuselage and wing from the 10, most of the build problems will be ironed out. I would agree it could take some time to work out all the flying kinks that could come up, but it is a nice plane.
 
Growing pains!

The following is my personal observations! Lets look at some RV12 stats. The wing kit was released at Sun&Fun April 2008. Fast forward to now. About 185 RV12s are flying. Kit serial number is up to about 685. Pretty good stats for 4 years of kits. Most of the RV12s are built by first time older builders. The completion rate of the kit is very high. It only takes about 2 years for the first time builders to complete their kits. Again really good stats. One thing that is very different is the directions. Think of them as chapters in a book. Each chapter completes a certain part or section. It better than building a good RC model. However this is also where it gets very complicated for Van. Those directions take lots of time to write and they will get updated all the time. This whole process started with the RV10. The RV12 is a complete kit which includes every part you need to finish. The majority of the RV12 kits are built as a ELSA. Which means you build it exactly by the plans with no changes made up to you receive you airworthiness Cert. No over analyze paralyzed going on. Take the parts out of the box, read the directions, assemble, complete the chapter. Move to the next chapter. Now that being said problems do arise. Subcontractors for one, some parts a subcontracted out, which means a lot of coordination is required between Vans and them to make everything fit correctly. Another One is customer service. Hey I just dropped $67,500.00 and bought every part from Vans, airframe, avionics, power plant, etc. So I want tech support on all that stuff from Vans. However that's not always the case. When you are dealing with first time builders who come to the table from all walks of life problems do occurs. Back to those directions again, incomplete sentence or misspelled words or reference to the wrong figure number on the same page, etc. It happens. I think some people are a bit naive about building a kit/experimental airplane. Life is not perfect and neither is building an experimental airplane. Building is an adventure and stuff happens. This is what will happen to the RV14. Think of them as growing pains. The RV12 kit is probably the best made kit in the USA. And it will probably out sell everything else out there. Couple of other factors that will make this come true is you don't need a medical to fly it and it is one of the cheapest planes to operate after you spend that big chunk to build it. The RV14 will come in as a close second as far as sales go because you will need a medical(at least right now anyways) and the price of the kit.:eek: That's my story and I'm sticking to it.;)
 
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As one of those older (well not that old), first-time RV-12 builders, I agree with everything Jetguy said. Keep in mind also that as an LSA, the RV-12
was a completely new design challenge for Vans - forward seating, different engine, removable wings, stabilator, very light airframe, etc. They did an outstanding job IMO, not only with the design but also with the sophistication and completeness of the kit and the quality of the plans.

As I see it, the RV-14, while also a new design, borrows far more from the other RV's than the -12 did. Therefore I would have no qualms at all about Vans getting it right. There will be minor glitches along the way, but certainly nothing to be concerned about. Vans will do a thorough job of both design and testing. Furthermore, if they package the kit like the -12 with standard avionics, engine, FWF and prefabricated plug-and-play wiring, they will have taken all the hard work out of building and have another winner in their lineup.

Although the one size fits all approach will not suit everybody, I'm willing to bet that most will opt for the Van's package when they see how much time and head-scratching it will save. Also, a standardised, well thought-out kit should also result in a fleet of safer aircraft, and safety is something that Van takes very seriously.
 
Time now OK to buy!

i am 102 in the 14A line up to buy. A fairly early buyer. Many have now either completed of are close to completion as am I. The kits are all done and ready to send, where I continued to wait for my subkits. Vans has done many fine tuning to the plans as we noted issues. So very safe now overall to order your first subkit!
 
I'm a first time builder and I'm just on final assembly of my RV-14 now. I've benefitted greatly from being just behind the lead group builders, Tim Olsen, Stoney etc. I think these guys have covered most of the bugs (thanks heaps) and Vans have reacted with updated plans. My airframe build has been very straight forward with the only real problems arising because I still can't convince myself not to skip ahead:D
The main difficulty I have had is with avionics and that has been compounded by my total lack of experience. I think as time goes on suppliers like Stein will work out the gaps between their system designs and the kit harnesses. Also some of the avionics accessories on the way from Vans will come on line. I'm sure anyone who knows anything about avionics would not have the issues I've had.
The kit is great, the planes are great and the plane looks great. I am very hopeful that shortly it will fly great as well.
 
Over 9000 RVs have flown, any bugs will almost certainly be minor. No other kit mfg has anywhere near this level of experience. Try buildng a 4, where the dwgs are in pencil and nothing is prefabbed and lots of stuff doesn't fit. Yet 100s of those have been build and their owners love 'em. If you are waiting for a perfect airplane you might as well take up golf. :p
 
Just don't be part of the early builders.

I am 140087 and the first RV-14 to fly. I kept pushing Van's to get me parts because I wanted to fly. The only thing I had to do so far is the retrofit the pin on the side of the canopy, which was no big deal. Now with 120 hours and a long cross country from New Orleans to California and back, can I say, "I LOVE THIS PLANE!!!". It is a stable great flying airplane. There could be something that Van's wants me to fix or alter going forward, but from a first time builder, it's a great kit. Thank you Van's.
 
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