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Help! I’m thinking about building

Miked409

I'm New Here
Hello Vans community! So, I’ve been looking into building a QB RV8 or 7 and I have some, well a lot, of questions. It seems like such a monumental project and for someone unfamiliar with building and the kit planes world, it’s overwhelming. I’d like some advise on what I could do before taking on this project to give myself the confidence that will set me up for success and hopefully make for a more enjoyable experience..

A little background about myself. Im a airline pilot and currently enjoy living in an airpark east of chicago where I own a bonanza V35b. I have a hanger where I’m hopeful I can squeeze in both airplanes. I do some preventive maintenance on my plane (oil changes, etc) but I definitely don’t feel confident about what I need to know for building my own plane. I want the challenge and feeling of accomplishment of completing something like this. I want to learn new skills and be able to work on my own plane, plus I’d like something small and fun to fly (aerobatics). These are some reasons for wanting to do the project.

So far I’ve called Vans corporate and got the scoop on buying the kits. I also ordered the flash drive preview plans. I’m an EAA member and started looking at their resources. They have a class you can take on building aluminum airplanes that I’m interested in. I also plan to order the practice kits.

So here are some of my questions.

1. Besides what I mentioned, what else can I do to to give me the confidence and make the project more manageable?
2. Tools. How do you what you need and how to properly use them. Where to buy? Setting up shop tips?
3. Engines and avionics. Is it best to buy through vans? Do you need to know what you want early in build or can you figure this stuff out as you go? I.e. engine type and avionics package.
4. Avionics? And engine install. Do most builders do it themselves? Are there classes to learn to do this or is it all laid out pretty well in the kit’s plans?

I guess that’s enough for now. I’m excited about the idea of doing this project but It seems overwhelming and want to make sure I don’t bite off more then I can chew. Thank you for any advice or tips you might have.

Sincerely
Mike Davenport
 
Howdy Mike. Welcome to the show!

I sent you a private message but I am sure others will jump on here as well.
 
General tips

It will be a great project!

A few general tips:

It will take longer than you think.

It will cost more than you think.

It will be frustrating at times.

It will be worth it...
 
....So here are some of my questions.

1. Besides what I mentioned, what else can I do to to give me the confidence and make the project more manageable?
2. Tools. How do you what you need and how to properly use them. Where to buy? Setting up shop tips?
3. Engines and avionics. Is it best to buy through vans? Do you need to know what you want early in build or can you figure this stuff out as you go? I.e. engine type and avionics package.
4. Avionics? And engine install. Do most builders do it themselves? Are there classes to learn to do this or is it all laid out pretty well in the kit’s plans?....

1. You already mentioned the things you need to start getting knowledge and training your hands.

2. Here on VAF there's a whole Tools section. Spend some time with it - also with the Tips section. There are posts on these and setting up the shop, too, so start using the Search, then click on Advanced Search.

3. You can figure it out as you go, but you'll need to have settled on an engine to order the Finish kit. You don't need the engine on hand, though, at that time.

Wait for the avionics till you need them, since those things change fairly often and new stuff becomes available.

4. The avionics manuals, free to download from the manufacturers, will give you an amazing amount of information about the how-to. Or you can hire out the whole installation.

The engine install is something you can do yourself. By the time you get there, it won't be too hard. And learning it, well, you'll have learned so much new stuff by then that this will be something else to look forward to.

Finally, keep browsing and studying VAF and the builder blogs. It's always helpful to see how other builders approached a task.

Dave
 
.....
A little background about myself. Im a airline pilot and currently enjoy living in an airpark east of chicago where I own a bonanza V35b.
....
Sincerely
Mike Davenport

Hi Mike,
East of Chicago? Are you flying a V35b on floats? :) I'm in the NW burbs, so don't know too much of the SE area, which I'm guessing is where you are. There are a few builders around here and getting more all the time, so you shouldn't have problems checking out other builds.

Jeff
 
So here are some of my questions.

1. Besides what I mentioned, what else can I do to to give me the confidence and make the project more manageable?
2. Tools. How do you what you need and how to properly use them. Where to buy? Setting up shop tips?
3. Engines and avionics. Is it best to buy through vans? Do you need to know what you want early in build or can you figure this stuff out as you go? I.e. engine type and avionics package.
4. Avionics? And engine install. Do most builders do it themselves? Are there classes to learn to do this or is it all laid out pretty well in the kit’s plans?

Welcome Mike! Having an airline schedule and a hangar out the back door certainly makes building more manageable. I have the schedule and a lot on an Airpark but my kit will be done before I build a house and hangar.

1. Slow and stead wins the race. You’ll gain experience and confidence quickly. Before you know it you’ll see a bolt on the floor and from across the room you’ll be able to identify the bolt. “Hey how did this AN3-7 get on the floor?”

2. You can buy a complete set from Cleveland tools, aircraft spruce or watch for people selling on here. Don’t skimp on tools. Having the correct tools makes life much easier and your aircraft safer.

3. Engines - My thoughts are to buy the engine that the kit is designed for. RV7/RV8 = O/IO-360. My engine is an Aerosport IO-360 with SDS ignition. You have lots of component options so you’ll have to do some research. You could also buy a used engine and either rebuild it yourself or have it overhauled. Wait times for new engines can be quite long (8-12 months) so you’ll have to plan for that. I delayed mounting my engine for as long as possible. I have a QB fuselage and there is a lot to do before engine mounting time.

Avionics - You’ll have to figure out what you want (VFR/IFR). Do you want to do all the wiring or have an avionics company build it all for you. Lots of options here. Then research which vendor you want to go with. I have GRT equipment and I’m happy with it. I haven’t flown yet but the interface and setup has been easy. Lastly, delay buying avionics as long as possible. Advances happen fast and there’s no reason to sit on avionics for a year or more.

4. The plans have a basic wiring diagram but I think most people use it as a guide. The book, Aeroelectric connection, is a good place to start learning about wiring. Again good tools makes wiring easier. The plans also have engine mounting and FW layout, but you can modify as necessary. By the time you get to avionics and engine mounting you’ll be an old pro at building and knowing where to find answers.

Lastly, I’ve really enjoyed building. It has been very therapeutic for me. It’s a continuous mind game of logistics, building processes, research and satisfaction of completing a task.

Do it and don’t look back!
 
Hey Mike-

When you said that you want the challenge and feeling of accomplishment, you hit the nail on the head.

If you just want to fly, then you should go and buy one already completed. But, if you think you will really enjoy the process, then by all means, give it a go.

Vans has done a great job of setting up their kits so that you can dip your toe into the pool rather than having to cannonball into the deep end. Once you've done the practice kits, you get to decide whether to move forward and order the empennage kit. That's about $2k and is an investment in tail feathers, but also an investment in seeing if you have the time and aptitude to build the whole thing. The skill set you develop on the empennage is the core of all the sheet metal work for the whole project.

If you get half way through it and have botched and re-ordered lots of parts, but are enjoying yourself, then hey, learning curve. The most expensive single part in the empennage kit is probably around $100.

But if you get 1/2 way through the rudder and hate it, then no harm no foul. Lots of used empennage kits for sale for just that reason.

As far as learning all the other stuff, it just comes with time. There are lots of resources available, and Vans is such a popular design that you can find several companies that prepackage basic tool kits for them, as well as a ton of aftermarket options, like pre-made instrument panels pre-made engine and airframe hose kits, etc.

Just remember that nobody is born knowing how to build an airplane, just like nobody is born knowing how to fly one.

Best of luck with whatever you decide
 
Welcome to VAF

Mike, welcome aboard the good ship VAF------always glad to welcome another Mike;):D
 
OSH Workshop

Plan on attending Airventure and attend one of the Sheetmetal 101 workshops. In past years they were offered twice a day, with a familiarization lecture then hands-on practice session to build confidence and familiarity with tools. Covered in the cost of admission.
(Disclaimer: COVID may affect scheduling this year, but the workshop chairman are already asking for volunteers, so the show will go on.)
 
Mentor

...
Finally, keep browsing and studying VAF and the builder blogs. It's always helpful to see how other builders approached a task.
Dave

I agree with Dave's points. The one above is important. Read.
This website is like an encyclopedia of Vans airplane building. Study all the "Stickys".

Next, find a Mentor. Dave taught me. I learned and still learn so much. Plus I gained a close friend. Help them and build the practice kits. Drill them apart and do it over. Build good muscle memory. It's like playing a sport. If you start with bad habits, they are difficult to unlearn.
 
Hi Mike,
East of Chicago? Are you flying a V35b on floats? :) I'm in the NW burbs, so don't know too much of the SE area, which I'm guessing is where you are. There are a few builders around here and getting more all the time, so you shouldn't have problems checking out other builds.

Jeff


Ha, You got me. I'm west. Naperaero. LL10. Finefield is my mechanic so you probably have seen me.
 
Hey Mike-

When you said that you want the challenge and feeling of accomplishment, you hit the nail on the head.

If you just want to fly, then you should go and buy one already completed. But, if you think you will really enjoy the process, then by all means, give it a go.

Vans has done a great job of setting up their kits so that you can dip your toe into the pool rather than having to cannonball into the deep end. Once you've done the practice kits, you get to decide whether to move forward and order the empennage kit. That's about $2k and is an investment in tail feathers, but also an investment in seeing if you have the time and aptitude to build the whole thing. The skill set you develop on the empennage is the core of all the sheet metal work for the whole project.

If you get half way through it and have botched and re-ordered lots of parts, but are enjoying yourself, then hey, learning curve. The most expensive single part in the empennage kit is probably around $100.

But if you get 1/2 way through the rudder and hate it, then no harm no foul. Lots of used empennage kits for sale for just that reason.

As far as learning all the other stuff, it just comes with time. There are lots of resources available, and Vans is such a popular design that you can find several companies that prepackage basic tool kits for them, as well as a ton of aftermarket options, like pre-made instrument panels pre-made engine and airframe hose kits, etc.

Just remember that nobody is born knowing how to build an airplane, just like nobody is born knowing how to fly one.

Best of luck with whatever you decide

Thank you. Good advice
 
Thank you everyone for the advice. I'm planing on joining the local EAA chapter and hopefully I can find someone who wants to help get me started. If anyone is in the chicago area and wants to share their project I'd be happy to take them up on that. I'm still trying to decide out rv8 or 7. I've always wanted a tandem seated airplane so I'm leaning towards the 8...if my wife hates flying behind me that much then she can drive:)....or take the bonanza I suppose..

Looks like taking a class on sheet metal followed by a practice kit and if all goes well, I'll order the empennage. Seems like a logical plan that won't hurt the pocket book to bad if building turns out to be not my cup of tea.
 
Mike,

Welcome to the RV Madness! (grin)

Your plan to join a local EAA Chapter is a great start. If there is more that 1 chapter in your area, attend a meeting of each before deciding which one to join, as they can differ considerably in their focus. (I ended up joining the chapter farthest from my home, as it was the best fit for what I was looking for.) And you can hopefully find a mentor and/or Tech Counselor to help you out.

I took the 2 day EAA sheet metal class, and it helped. But what really gave me a great start to building was attending the Empennage build class at Synergy Air in Eugene,Oregon (https://synergyair.com/builder-assistance-classes/empennage/ ). They picked up my empennage kit from Van's, inventoried it and primed it before I got there. Then I built the empennage with the help of their A&Ps. This was a tremendous learning experience, as I got to try out a number of different tools from their tool box, and worked with several different of their A&Ps, with each having some different methods and techniques that they passed on to me. And at the end of the class, I had finished building my empennage and had a good idea of what tools I wanted to order. The one downside to this was I needed to have ordered my wings or fuselage earlier as I ended up waiting for them for a couple months after finishing the empennage class.

As for avionics, you can have a shop do most of the work (Aerotronics or SteinAir are both good shops). If you want to do the work yourself, there is a great class you can take from AEA that is typically held twice a year (https://aea.net/Training/courses/exp/) . It is based on the Garmin G3X system, but would be useful for other avionics brands as well. But as others have said, it is best to wait until you are closer to complete as the avionics world is almost constantly changing and you don't want to have obsolete equipment sitting on your shelf for a couple years while you build.

Hope this helps a bit. If you would like more info or to discuss, send me a private message through this site.

Cheers,
 
I enjoyed the EAA 2-day sheet metal workshop. It's a great learning experience and a good confidence builder. There are typically a good mix of people already building and prospective builders.
 
+1 for an Empennage build class. Synergy or anyone else that may be offering the class. You should go in before you purchase any of your tools. They will have lots for you to try and then decide for yourself what you need or what is best for you. You will leave the class with the empennage completed (probably less the fiberglass work) and you will have the skills to complete the rest of the kit.
 
I enjoyed the EAA 2-day sheet metal workshop. It's a great learning experience and a good confidence builder. There are typically a good mix of people already building and prospective builders.

I'll be the third to jump on a variation this idea. My wife and I did 2 or 3 hours at OSH a few years ago before we started on our 10. This and building a tool box was enough to convince us we had ( / could learn) the skills to build an airframe. The benefit of having heard/seen how things are supposed to look and sound as you rivet together saved a lot of beginner mistakes for sure. I'm sure the courses are fantastic, but its amazing what even just a few hours of hands on makes.
 
Hello Mike!

I am following this because I am certainly in the same stage as you!

Hello Vans community! So, I’ve been looking into building a QB RV8 or 7 and I have some, well a lot, of questions. It seems like such a monumental project and for someone unfamiliar with building and the kit planes world, it’s overwhelming. I’d like some advise on what I could do before taking on this project to give myself the confidence that will set me up for success and hopefully make for a more enjoyable experience..

A little background about myself. Im a airline pilot and currently enjoy living in an airpark east of chicago where I own a bonanza V35b. I have a hanger where I’m hopeful I can squeeze in both airplanes. I do some preventive maintenance on my plane (oil changes, etc) but I definitely don’t feel confident about what I need to know for building my own plane. I want the challenge and feeling of accomplishment of completing something like this. I want to learn new skills and be able to work on my own plane, plus I’d like something small and fun to fly (aerobatics). These are some reasons for wanting to do the project.

So far I’ve called Vans corporate and got the scoop on buying the kits. I also ordered the flash drive preview plans. I’m an EAA member and started looking at their resources. They have a class you can take on building aluminum airplanes that I’m interested in. I also plan to order the practice kits.

So here are some of my questions.

1. Besides what I mentioned, what else can I do to to give me the confidence and make the project more manageable?
2. Tools. How do you what you need and how to properly use them. Where to buy? Setting up shop tips?
3. Engines and avionics. Is it best to buy through vans? Do you need to know what you want early in build or can you figure this stuff out as you go? I.e. engine type and avionics package.
4. Avionics? And engine install. Do most builders do it themselves? Are there classes to learn to do this or is it all laid out pretty well in the kit’s plans?

I guess that’s enough for now. I’m excited about the idea of doing this project but It seems overwhelming and want to make sure I don’t bite off more then I can chew. Thank you for any advice or tips you might have.

Sincerely
Mike Davenport
 
Maybe go sit in a -8 before you decide? I sat in a really nice one that a guy finished a couple hangars down from me and decided that it was too small. I'm a medium sized guy, but I decided it wasn't something that I'd want to do hours of XC in.

Buy the USB plans (I don't know why Van's doesn't just let you download them from the store yet). I bought both the -8 and -14 plans and that helped me decide to build the -14. The difference is night and day! The -14 is literally a step by step guide with drawings of what to do.

I'm a software guy not a MX other than the standard preventative maintenance stuff on my Mooney, had never touched building tools before, but I read manuals and figure out how to put software together for a living. It wasn't too hard to figure out.

One other thing that sold me on the -14 is that all the holes are pre-drilled by computer, pretty much final sized. You literally just have to line up the holes, put a rivet in it, and smash it. Even an idiot like me can do it.

If I actually had to measure and drill my own holes on sheet metal I'm sure I would screw that up like 800 times.... that's what you're looking at for the -7 and -8. Yeah it makes the -14 cost more, but the reduction in labor and stress is worth the money!
 
Maybe go sit in a -8 before you decide? I sat in a really nice one that a guy finished a couple hangars down from me and decided that it was too small. I'm a medium sized guy, but I decided it wasn't something that I'd want to do hours of XC in.

Buy the USB plans (I don't know why Van's doesn't just let you download them from the store yet). I bought both the -8 and -14 plans and that helped me decide to build the -14. The difference is night and day! The -14 is literally a step by step guide with drawings of what to do.

I'm a software guy not a MX other than the standard preventative maintenance stuff on my Mooney, had never touched building tools before, but I read manuals and figure out how to put software together for a living. It wasn't too hard to figure out.

One other thing that sold me on the -14 is that all the holes are pre-drilled by computer, pretty much final sized. You literally just have to line up the holes, put a rivet in it, and smash it. Even an idiot like me can do it.

If I actually had to measure and drill my own holes on sheet metal I'm sure I would screw that up like 800 times.... that's what you're looking at for the -7 and -8. Yeah it makes the -14 cost more, but the reduction in labor and stress is worth the money!

I thought the newer kits for the 7, and 8 came Predrilled to line up also. Is that not the case?

I’m definitely going to sit in, or even better, take a ride in an 8 before I decide.
 
Prepunched vs full size

I thought the newer kits for the 7, and 8 came Predrilled to line up also. Is that not the case?

I’m definitely going to sit in, or even better, take a ride in an 8 before I decide.

7,8,9 are prepunched but not final size. You assemble with clekos and ream to final size then disassemble, debur, yada, yada.
14 holes are punched final size. Still have to dimple.
 
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