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430W not sending GPS data to EFIS..any ideas?

MacCool

Well Known Member
I recently bought a nice RV-9A. The previous owner had just had a uAvionics EchoUAT ADS-B installed. On the flight back to the plane’s new home base, we noted that the EFIS (AF4500) wasn’t getting GPS data from the 430W. My buddy theorizes that the EchoUAT install buggered the ARINC connection somehow. He’s going to pull the interior and get under the panel tomorrow. Anything else he should be looking for while he’s under there?
 
I would guess it’s an RS232 problem. Did the installer have to update the 430W software to get adsb+ format available? I wonder if the formatting of the rs232 line to the efis got messed up somehow.
 
It really depends on what you mean by gps data.

Like Bob stated, it could be a rs-232 issue, which can be either an open circuit or bad configuration.

Latitude/longitude coordinates are sent on the rs-232 connection, whereas flight plan data is sent via Arinc. Which set of gps Data is the issue?
 
It really depends on what you mean by gps data.

Like Bob stated, it could be a rs-232 issue, which can be either an open circuit or bad configuration.

Latitude/longitude coordinates are sent on the rs-232 connection, whereas flight plan data is sent via Arinc. Which set of gps Data is the issue?

Flight plan data isn't going to either the flight display (AF4500) or the map display (AF3500) and they display "GPS Integrity" with the red X when set to get flight plan data from the 430W. The 430W works fine by itself and flight instruments are fine. I do get ADS-B-in data on the map display. This all apparently started right after the EchoUAT was installed. After a long time on the phone yesterday with Rob Hickman and with uAvionix, my buddy did find the software manipulation necessary to get ADS-B+ running, but still no 430w and Rob's pretty confident that it's a wiring problem. We're going pull the seats and get under the panel (he is going to get under the panel) and look for a connector that's not connected. General consensus so far is that in the ARINC, but I'm sure he'll plug anything in that he sees uplugged. I'm not sure what all is involved with with an EchoUAT install, but it seems reasonable that there had to be some unplugging and re-plugging involved. Anyway...that was the conclusion from the discussions with the companies.
 
I suspect you have a pin that’s loose in the connector or a wire break at the crimp. It’s not all that uncommon when working behind the panel to accidentally tugged on an another wire causing issues like you described. Unfortunately these types of issues usually aren’t easily seen or obvious. You have to usually take the db shell apart to see them. You can also use a VOM to perform continuity testing on each wire.

Good luck!
 
I suspect you have a pin that’s loose in the connector or a wire break at the crimp. It’s not all that uncommon when working behind the panel to accidentally tugged on an another wire causing issues like you described. Unfortunately these types of issues usually aren’t easily seen or obvious. You have to usually take the db shell apart to see them. You can also use a VOM to perform continuity testing on each wire.

Good luck!

Early in my IFR training I noted that my 430W would handle a RNAV approach just fine, but would not display a glideslope for an ILS on my EFIS. I got the localizer, and I had a glideslope for the RNAV, just not for the ILS. I ended up tracking it down to one single wire that had broken at the pin on the connector between the ARINC and the VHF side of the 430W. By the use of RTFM and knowing which pin/wire was the suspect, it was easy to find once I knew where to look.
 
General rule: do easy stuff first.
1. Look behind panel, see if somethings not plugged in.
2. Look at set up menu, make sure rs232 formats, speeds, arinc settings, are correct.
3. Pull connectors from back of both efis and 430, use an ohmmeter to make sure arinc and rs232 lines have continuity.
4. Disassemble connector shell if needed this is a pain, under the panel.
BTW, did you request an on-line adsb report from the faa? May as well see if there’s a problem there while you’re doing this.
 
There's another potential problem. Your EFIS may have been using the RS-232 data line for the EFIS, and someone tapped into that line for the uavionics. But now the RS-232 is configured for ADSB+ OUT. It no longer works going to the EFIS. You have to use another serial line for either the EFIS or the uavioncis, but the same signal won't work for both.

We've seen this done already.

A quick check is to go into config mode on the 430 and look at the serial connections. One should be configured for Honeywell EFIS or something similar, depending upon your EFIS. There should be another RS-232 configured for ADBS+ OUT

Vic
 
I appreciate the replies. My buddy has the plane right now trying to figure this out - he's much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. He's spent quite a bit of time on phone with both uAvionix and Rob at AFS, and this afternoon went through the cabling and connectors wire by wire. Pins and sockets are all good, continuity is good on all of them. He's of the opinion that the ARINC interface box is dead. He has a call in to AFS to find out how to check it, or replace it.

Any leads on a replacement for an ARINC box for a 430W to an AFS 4500 EFIS?
 
I am with Vic, my gut reaction is a configuration issue. Since the ADS-B was just installed did they "steal" the port to use for that?
 
I appreciate the replies. My buddy has the plane right now trying to figure this out - he's much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. He's spent quite a bit of time on phone with both uAvionix and Rob at AFS, and this afternoon went through the cabling and connectors wire by wire. Pins and sockets are all good, continuity is good on all of them. He's of the opinion that the ARINC interface box is dead. He has a call in to AFS to find out how to check it, or replace it.

Any leads on a replacement for an ARINC box for a 430W to an AFS 4500 EFIS?

Rob doesn't have any in stock? With the 4500, you have to use the AFS Arinc box. The Dynon version only works with the 5000 series.

It's be so long, I don't remember all the 430 pages. on my GTN650, there is an ARINC debug page in which you can see the ARINC labels being transmitted. But I suspect if there was one, Rob would have mentioned it.
 
There's another potential problem. Your EFIS may have been using the RS-232 data line for the EFIS, and someone tapped into that line for the uavionics. But now the RS-232 is configured for ADSB+ OUT. It no longer works going to the EFIS. You have to use another serial line for either the EFIS or the uavioncis, but the same signal won't work for both.

We've seen this done already.

A quick check is to go into config mode on the 430 and look at the serial connections. One should be configured for Honeywell EFIS or something similar, depending upon your EFIS. There should be another RS-232 configured for ADBS+ OUT

Vic
Great tip Vic! Thanks. I'll pass it on.
 
Rob doesn't have any in stock? With the 4500, you have to use the AFS Arinc box. The Dynon version only works with the 5000 series.

It's be so long, I don't remember all the 430 pages. on my GTN650, there is an ARINC debug page in which you can see the ARINC labels being transmitted. But I suspect if there was one, Rob would have mentioned it.

I don't know. I talked to my avionics wrangler about an hour ago and he was still waiting for a callback from Rob.

ETA: He did assure that the EchoUAT and the 430W were on different serial ports....COM 1 vs COM 2. Only thing he has not checked is the connection continuity from the ARINC box to the EFIS. He's still thinking defective ARINC box.
 
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There is a very detailed step by step trouble shooting procedure in the AF-4500 manual for the 430W interface starting on page 110.

https://www.advancedflightsystems.com/downloads/AF-3000-4000%20System%20Manual%20V7.4.pdf


We have AF-ARINC modules in stock, although I doubt that is the problem. Make sure they have taken the top off of the arinc module and verified that the green power led is on (Step 1.d)
We have had a number of people use a long mounting screw on the arinc module and it will touch the power supply inside the unit and blow the field replaceable fuse inside the unit.


If the problem really started when you installed the ADSB it is most likely a wiring problem.

If you need more help send me an email with your phone number.
[email protected]


Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
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It really depends on what you mean by gps data.

Like Bob stated, it could be a rs-232 issue, which can be either an open circuit or bad configuration.

Latitude/longitude coordinates are sent on the rs-232 connection, whereas flight plan data is sent via Arinc. Which set of gps Data is the issue?

When checking the harnesses for integrity, is continuity sufficient, or should one be looking at actual resistance?
 
Continuity is good, but depending upon what transponder you have, there could be a 1.2k ohm resistor between the gps and the transponder. It is required for the Dynon transponders.

Vic
 
Brief update...and thank you all for the assistance:

My avionics-guru with Rob's help narrowed the problem down the the 430W or the ARINC interface, although the leading thought by most of you was that it was a wiring issue. So my buddy took the 430W out of his son's airplane and was going to put it in mine to see if it was the 430W. When he was pulling it from mine, he noted that the ARINC connector was sitting a little cockeyed and found that it was actually partially unplugged due to one of the securing screws being too short. He got a new screw from the avionics shop, plugged it back in, and everything now works perfectly except for the separate panel-mounted artificial horizon. It's kind of an ancient instrument, the company is out of business. We thought is was part of the wiring issue...turns out that it's just completely T.U. I ending up getting a good deal from Jason at Aerotronics on a G5 to replace it, which will give me good redundancy. Pleased about that.

Bottom line...ya'll were right. It was a wiring issue, now solved.

Thanks again.
 
Brief update...and thank you all for the assistance:

My avionics-guru with Rob's help narrowed the problem down the the 430W or the ARINC interface, although the leading thought by most of you was that it was a wiring issue. So my buddy took the 430W out of his son's airplane and was going to put it in mine to see if it was the 430W. When he was pulling it from mine, he noted that the ARINC connector was sitting a little cockeyed and found that it was actually partially unplugged due to one of the securing screws being too short. He got a new screw from the avionics shop, plugged it back in, and everything now works perfectly except for the separate panel-mounted artificial horizon. It's kind of an ancient instrument, the company is out of business. We thought is was part of the wiring issue...turns out that it's just completely T.U. I ending up getting a good deal from Jason at Aerotronics on a G5 to replace it, which will give me good redundancy. Pleased about that.

Bottom line...ya'll were right. It was a wiring issue, now solved.

Thanks again.

So it was #1 on Bob's list:

General rule: do easy stuff first.
1. Look behind panel, see if somethings not plugged in.

This is a pretty good example of that rule...I was wondering why you were jumping to the much more complicated (and unlikely) assumption that the ARINC box was bad.
 
I assume you mean the approach database card. You have two vendors, Garmin and Jepp. For an annual, full US annual subscription, Garmin is $150 cheaper than Jepp. In either case, you need a device from Garmin or Jepp to go between your computer USB and the datacard.
 
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