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Oshkosh & Controllers

Capflyer

Well Known Member
Home today from another awesome week of AirVenture. This was my 14th year in a row and I don't see an end in sight. Every year I stay with a large group of mostly spam cans in the North 40. We have a whole infrustructure with three meals a day, beer on tap along with other libations, a large 20x30 party tent, and a storage bin to keep my OSH stuff in from year to year. The group has been around for a long time and over the years made many contacts from EAA. This year one of the guys had befriended a controller, Brian, a few months ago in Dallas who we met up with on his third year working Oshkosh. Great guy and brought a lot of insight to questions we all probably have thought about. First off, the controllers LOVE RV's. In fact so much that this year their Pink Shirts had this logo on them

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Brian was an awesome guy who also has a pilots licence. We talked a little about the Fiske arrival and he said the controllers can't understand why it is so hard for people to follow the tracks. I offered him a ride the next morning to fly the Fiske arrival which he jumped at. We took off around 0830 for some fun RV stuff then I let him hand fly the approach. He was surprised the RV handled so well at 90kts and also found out that it is difficult to see not only the tracks on some sections but also actually seeing the Fiske controller's location. He also asked my opinion why some RV's find it necessary to fly the high approach. Brian fouind the whole approach eye opening from a pilot's perspective.

He offered us a tower tour which we jumped at. I was up in the tower when the 30 ship took off and did their fly-over. Very impressive to see everything from that vantage point. One of the other controllers saw my VAF hat and we struck up a converstaion. He is looking for an RV4. After we talked he came back and handed me their official patch for this year

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So next year when you have a chance to meet up with any of the Pink Shirts take advantage of getting to know them. They love being there and love interacting with everyone attending.
 
I really respect the work the controllers do, it gets crazy sometimes.
We had the most difficult approach ever this year, my passenger did a good job putting together a video of what the controllers go through. This is our Green lake hold (Twice), then Rush lake hold before finally landing on 18r.
On Sunday when we arrived Ripon, 27 was closed and shortly after holding Green lake, 18r closed.
The link to the video is below.

Here is a screen shot of my track.

And the video, turn up the volume
https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://youtu.be/HrFNzrm8OWM&h=vAQE4o-O7&s=1
 
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Tim, great video hearing the bedlam begininngs on Sunday. I had to hold at Green Lake for about 45 minutes, Rush Lake was full in the hold there. Apparently a Mooney plowed into 27 and collapsed the landing gear. It was a swarm of planes, some unable to fly at 90kts. When we finally got into the approach it was at 75-80kts the whole way into Fiske until we turned right to 18. Thank goodness it was smooth air except for ocasional prop wash unintentional wing rocks.

The controllers there did an awesome job keeping things as calm as they could, there was a ton of traffic that came in on Sunday to the point the airfield closed down mid Monday when it filled up.

P.S. for next year guys, drop 10deg of flaps when flying at 90kts in holds and the approach. It will drop your nose a bit (decresing your AOA) and give you a more stable ride. Try it, you'll like it!
 
Sunday afternoon was really difficult. Low clouds and haze made it difficult to see landmarks. I think the railroad tracks have a lot of bushes and weeds growing on the right of way which made it doubly hard to see in the tracks.

It would help if folks were patient and not jump in front of everyone - it took me 2.6 hours from Dodge County KUNU to my tie down in HBP. I must have went around Green Lake 10 times!

I'm sure the haze made it really difficult for the controllers to see and direct the incoming traffic.
 
Great info and very cool on going up in the Tower, you are lucky. I would've loved to have done that as well. We arrived on Saturday and must say, we sure enjoyed sitting on the edge of 18R Sunday watching the chaos! 9 out of 10 planes blew their base turn by going north of the blue dot/tower. And at one point witnessed 10 aircraft just on the base leg. Huge amount of respect for the controllers!!!!
 
Oshkosh approach

One of the past few years (don't remember which one) they had a balloon teathered at Fisk, which made it a lot easier to spot. I'd suggest that be done every year.
A few balloons along the railroad tracks wouldn't hurt either, it is hard to spot in a few locations. But GPS helps.
 
Didn't there used to be strobe lights on the grain silos at FISKE? Had it in the flight plan as a way point, but obscured by traffic targets. It would be helpful to have a definite way of marking the exact location. "Yellow RV over FISKE, turn east"--is that me or the first, second or third yellow RV ahead of me?
 
Seeking "Pink Shirts" to interview for book project

Greetings Oshkosh Controllers,

I am a frequent fly-in visitor to Airventure, and as usual, you guys "Rock" (pun intended.)

I'm in the final phases of a book project about Flying to Oshkosh, and I would like to interview a couple pink shirt controllers who have experience working Airventure. The section in the book is titled "Meet the Controllers".

Is anyone willing to spend 10-15 minutes with me on the phone (and get your name and perhaps picture(s) in the book? I'd be happy to share the draft if you'd like to see what it looks like.

Thanks in advance,

Chris Hallinan
Private, SEL. Instrument Rating
Punta Gorda, FL
PM for phone number
 
Great info and very cool on going up in the Tower, you are lucky. I would've loved to have done that as well. We arrived on Saturday and must say, we sure enjoyed sitting on the edge of 18R Sunday watching the chaos! 9 out of 10 planes blew their base turn by going north of the blue dot/tower. And at one point witnessed 10 aircraft just on the base leg. Huge amount of respect for the controllers!!!!
This was my first trip into OSH, on Sunday afternoon. Approaching Ripon, I was somewhat surprised at the length of the line up. It took me a while to find a gap where I didn't feel like I was pushing my way in, and I latched onto the tail of a Cessna 180 for a couple of laid around Green Lake. We had a Glasair slide underneath us less than 50' below us. Then, over Ripon, about 1/4 mile behind the 180, a twin behind us, and flying 20 below the NOTAM speed, an RV tried to fit between us and the 180. I suggested he take a lap around the lake. The 180 flew the pattern too far to the north, crossing over the south end of 18, to far too the east, then waited until he was in line with 27 to turn into 18R. I just followed him, trying to tighten up the downwind and base a touch without turning inside him or getting grossly out of line.

Semi controlled chaos, for sure. Not aided by the controller calling our Maule an RV, lol. I was expecting "high wing" or "taildragger" or something that wasn't exactly correct, but wasn't expecting "RV", lol.
 
Not sure what others experienced on Sunday afternoon, but it was a mad house. I was never able to hear the ATIS even at Green Lake (where I held for a few laps with aircraft high. low, fast, slow and cutting off constantly). Were others able to get the ATIS out there? A common altimeter setting would have been good to have for common altitudes (although based on what I saw that may have been wishful thinking).

Several too-close aircraft, including a Cherokee that swung in at Green lake and just about descended on top of us, and a super cub or similar that slowed suddenly ahead of us. Made a lot of left turns and re-entries. But that's what it's all about - follow the instructions and maintain spacing. Most everyone did, and a few yahoos didn't.

The controllers were great. On final they kept a warbird that had gone around and me apart, thank goodness. He passed overhead with smoke on. Early free airshow, I guess.

Sunday afternoon was definitely the busiest I have experienced on the arrival to-date. The morning low overcast and haze resulted in everyone heading to outlying airports, then when it cleared up everyone and their brothers launched and headed straight to the same place. Crowded for sure.
 
Late afternoon on RWY 27

We were listening to the handheld radio watching the action on 27 late Sunday afternoon when a Challenger Jet was coming in on final. Apparently a couple of aircraft down the runway had not pulled into the grass fast enough (one was an RV evidently) and the Challenger was forced to go around. 8+ minutes later he managed to come around on final again and this time the controller allowed a high wing yellow (very slow) aircraft to slip in in front of him. Despite the controller calling repeatedly for him to "expedite his landing" the Challenger again had to pull up and go around. This one was unfortunately on the controller's shoulders. Around the Challenger went again...burning a whole lot of JetA. No complaints voiced ...at least on the radio...Another 6-8 minutes go by. So now on the third attempt, the same controller had two different GA aircraft not even attempt the turn to final and had them stay up in the pattern to clear the way for the Challenger to come in. An amazingly smooth landing as well. The next voice on the radio was a different controller. The last guy had enough!.
 
We were listening to the handheld radio watching the action on 27 late Sunday afternoon when a Challenger Jet was coming in on final. Apparently a couple of aircraft down the runway had not pulled into the grass fast enough (one was an RV evidently) and the Challenger was forced to go around. 8+ minutes later he managed to come around on final again and this time the controller allowed a high wing yellow (very slow) aircraft to slip in in front of him. Despite the controller calling repeatedly for him to "expedite his landing" the Challenger again had to pull up and go around. This one was unfortunately on the controller's shoulders. Around the Challenger went again...burning a whole lot of JetA. No complaints voiced ...at least on the radio...Another 6-8 minutes go by. So now on the third attempt, the same controller had two different GA aircraft not even attempt the turn to final and had them stay up in the pattern to clear the way for the Challenger to come in. An amazingly smooth landing as well. The next voice on the radio was a different controller. The last guy had enough!.

Yup, I saw the Challenger doing the go arounds. So many people are given instructions, and just don't comply. "Start your base turn now..." and they insist on going all the way to the lake's edge before they turn.". Those controllers do a great job given the number of pilots who just can't get the concept of turning base early to land on the green dot!! But hey, that's Oshkosh!
 
Pink shirts can MOVE

First. +5 on strobe lights on tracks.

When 27 was closed for Mooney incedent it was total chaos.
Planes were told to go back to Ripon and start over. Some of the planes were on there own program and on wrong FREQ, decided to write there own approaches and fly 27 THEN land on 18R.
Had a Cherokee 6 come over 50' above our head on Rwy 5.
Looked like he was trying to land on taxiway by Home built registration .
Bad Jack Rousch approach.
The controllers saw him/ her coming and were scrambling like I have never saw before. We were on the move too.

Pretty scary happenings and all was good when he finally hit 18 R.

I would also rate the controllers a 10 this year.
Outstanding job.

Boomer
 
First. +5 on strobe lights on tracks.

Stuff deleted....

Had a Cherokee 6 come over 50' above our head on Rwy 5.
Looked like he was trying to land on taxiway by Home built registration .
Bad Jack Rousch approach.
The controllers saw him/ her coming and were scrambling like I have never saw before. We were on the move too.

More stuff deleted...

I must have been sitting really close to you. I saw the marshallers heading for the boonies and almost followed them myself :) That was an interesting (sometimes anxious) couple of hours sitting there....

I came in on Friday around 1130. My biggest problem was roasting alive at 90kts and 34C between Ripon and Fiske. Holy SMOKES that was miserable. However, the controller at Fiske was chatty and asked me what runway I wanted (it wasn't busy) so I replied "Surprise me". I got 36L. I didn't actually see a marshaller until I got to the big taxiway heading into HBC and the warbirds. The controller said "Just taxi in the general direction you want to go and someone will find you....".

Awesome.
 
I was watching (and listening) on the North Tower freq Sunday, and it was nuts...and there were some seriously unsafe situations.

The controllers voices were getting higher and more stressed-sounding the more they were getting slammed by traffic, especially traffic without a clue.

The aircraft flying the approach to 27, then just turning and landing on 18 without clearance all the while the controller was yelling at him to go around was unbelievable, and I thought the poor guy working the airspace was going to stroke out.

I'm generally not one to sic the FAA on folks, but that day there were some pilots who put others at serious risk and should have had someone in their grill about it...

Glad I come in Saturday, mainly to avoid a cluster___ like occurred Sunday....

What a goat rope.
 
I was watching (and listening) on the North Tower freq Sunday, and it was nuts...and there were some seriously unsafe situations.

The controllers voices were getting higher and more stressed-sounding the more they were getting slammed by traffic, especially traffic without a clue.

The aircraft flying the approach to 27, then just turning and landing on 18 without clearance all the while the controller was yelling at him to go around was unbelievable, and I thought the poor guy working the airspace was going to stroke out.

I'm generally not one to sic the FAA on folks, but that day there were some pilots who put others at serious risk and should have had someone in their grill about it...

Glad I come in Saturday, mainly to avoid a cluster___ like occurred Sunday....

What a goat rope.
Self redirecting from 27 to 18R - you mean like this person the Cherokee at 1:15 in the clip? The gold and white one - who almost wiped out one of the guys in my flight - all of whom were cleared to land on 18R.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CGhKsuXlJA

I wanted to follow this guy to parking and have words with him, but my backseater convinced me to let it go.
 
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We had a guy in a Cirrus do the opposite... instead of landing on 18 he decided instead just to extend his downwind into a base for 27, and rolled out right off our wing.
 
The north/south runways are sometimes referred to as 18 Left, 18 Right, and 18 Wrong (the taxiway).

My decision before arriving on Friday was that I would not fly either holding pattern but would leave the area and come back later.

My own arrival story is in the next post.
 
Self redirecting from 27 to 18R - you mean like this person the Cherokee at 1:15 in the clip? The gold and white one who almost wiped out one of the guys in my flight - who were all cleared to land on 18R?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CGhKsuXlJA

I wanted to follow this guy to parking and have words with him, but my backseater convinced me to let it go.


Yep, pretty much.

Scary...And ugly.

My kudos to your wingie, who kept the blue side up and demonstrated some real airmanship and SA on the go-around....but it sure p*sses me off to see a guy put into that position in the first place.
 
Landing at Oshkosh without a clearance

So I'm flying in on Saturday afternoon with lotsa traffic on the fish finder (ADS-B), even with no TIS-B update. Coming into Ripon, I see two planes following the RR tracks into Ripon off to the right, and I fit between them nicely enough.

Following the RR tracks to Fisk, I'm following a low wing retractable taildragger but not wanting to put flaps down because 90 knots is above published flap speed. It would be nice to have the nose down a bit, and it's not as easy to see the tracks dead ahead as it would be if they were off to the side, but I'm holding station on the plane ahead.

Over Fisk, the three of us are assigned Rwy 27, and I ask for 36. The controller gives the guy behind me 36, and before I can say anything, the guy behind says he didn't ask for 36, it was the guy ahead of him. Too late, the controller is already talking to the next plane. I'm a big boy, scroll the iPad to the correct page and very, very quickly refresh my memory, glad that I'd read all of the arrival procedures that morning, and re-read the active ones once I'd received the ATIS 30 miles out.

Approaching the airport, the Swift, as it turns out, is flying downwind over the road at the edge of the airport which is, even by my fairly aggressive standards, really close to the runway. Tower tells him to turn base before the end of the runway, which he does, and then clears him to land on the green dot.

The red Swift does not turn final onto 27 but instead proceeds straight ahead to land on one of the 18 runways while those runways are active on 36. Tower gets real excited, no surprise, and tells the Swift to turn right immediately, which he does. They then tell him to turn left toward the lake and he does that.

Meanwhile, I'm being ignored and know better than to try to get a word in edgewise on the radio, so I turn final right over the five controllers who are all focused *intently* on the Swift, which I too have had to keep in my scan. Even by my standards, this has turned into a very aggressive traffic pattern, but I put the RV-9A down perfectly and gently on the green dot and turn off into the grass.

Meanwhile, the controllers finally have the red Swift vectored back to the downwind for 27. They tell him to turn base, he does, tell him to head for the green dot, and he then proceeds straight ahead again, headed for a runway 18. Long about then, it's time for me to pay full attention to the flagmen and the grass.

I didn't read about him, so presumably he eventually landed okay. A few days later, I was talking to one of the controllers at the base of the tower, and he said that I had done all the right things.

You never know when you'll need your A game...
 
Self redirecting from 27 to 18R - you mean like this person the Cherokee at 1:15 in the clip? The gold and white one - who almost wiped out one of the guys in my flight - all of whom were cleared to land on 18R.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CGhKsuXlJA

I wanted to follow this guy to parking and have words with him, but my backseater convinced me to let it go.

That was not the guy.
It happened 10 minutes before that.
Should have been north a little bit.

I had to move .

Was not looking good.:eek:
 
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