Jerry Cochran
Well Known Member
This ad keeps popping up on a popular site. Empty weight #888? How?
Jerry
Jerry
Van's Air Force
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Anyone know what in heck us going on here?
- Thread starter Jerry Cochran
- Start date
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
The original prototype was 960 lbs, IIRC, and it was pretty basic. No gyros, wood prop, no carpet, thin paint, etc.
With no electrical system, no paint, no wheel fairings, and no oil in it (the published weight is "dry"), it might be possible to get one down to 888 lbs. The next question is what DAR would sign it off as an LSA?
Jesse
Well Known Member
As far as the DAR, if it's built EAB, the DAR doesn't sign it off as light sport. He signs it off as EAB. As long as the gross weight is 1,320 or less, a sport pilot can fly it. Of course, it has to meet other criteria like max cruise speed, stall speed, etc. that would be the hardest to meet in an RV-6 probably. I don't know that you can get the stall speed down to, but the sport pilot legal stall speed is quite low.
C ruise Speed
Dealing with the cruise speed is simple: placard on the panel limiting power to xxxx, whatever it takes to meet requirements for Light Sport parameters. For stall speed, only the test pilot knows for sure. The DAR or FAA Inspector are not required to get involved in questioning stall speed. The new ops specs require the owner or his/her representative to enter the stall speed in the ops specs at the completion of Phase I testing.
The 0 360 powered Cub clone is an example of how the cruise speed is handled. Full power limited to XX minutes for takeoff, then 90 hp or whatever is appropriate.
Dealing with the cruise speed is simple: placard on the panel limiting power to xxxx, whatever it takes to meet requirements for Light Sport parameters. For stall speed, only the test pilot knows for sure. The DAR or FAA Inspector are not required to get involved in questioning stall speed. The new ops specs require the owner or his/her representative to enter the stall speed in the ops specs at the completion of Phase I testing.
The 0 360 powered Cub clone is an example of how the cruise speed is handled. Full power limited to XX minutes for takeoff, then 90 hp or whatever is appropriate.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Thanks for the education. I didn't know that.
With everything listed on this aircraft I would highly question any scales that showed 888 lbs.
Only the engine manufacturer can "limit" power. And that would be a LOT of limiting to keep the maximum speed of an RV-6 below 120 kts.
A "clean" stall speed of <45 kts is highly unlikely in an RV-6.
Only the engine manufacturer can "limit" power. And that would be a LOT of limiting to keep the maximum speed of an RV-6 below 120 kts.
A "clean" stall speed of <45 kts is highly unlikely in an RV-6.
az_gila
Well Known Member
Not quite, apparently the plane manufacturer can do it, just like the Carbon Cub.
From their web site -
To qualify as Light Sport, this aircraft is limited to:
903 lb empty weight and 1320 lb gross weight on wheels.
Maximum continuous speed of 138 miles per hour.
Maximum takeoff power limited to five minutes.
Maximum continuous power limited to 80 HP after five minutes.
*180 Horsepower for takeoff and climb up to 5 minutes - 80 Horsepower for continuous operation.
It is the pilots responsibility to operate the aircraft in accordance with the pilot operating handbook and aircraft placarding.
There is NO governor or limiting system that controls the engines power settings.
RONSIM
Well Known Member
On display at Sebring LSA show a couple of times?
Someone brought a -6A/-7A/-9A (not sure which) that he was building and selling as an LSA --- small engine/wood prop/limited fuel capacity, etc. etc. -- I did not look at it too closely but appearance-wise, looked good.
Ron
Someone brought a -6A/-7A/-9A (not sure which) that he was building and selling as an LSA --- small engine/wood prop/limited fuel capacity, etc. etc. -- I did not look at it too closely but appearance-wise, looked good.
Ron
David Paule
Well Known Member
My understanding is that the Carbon Cub's engine is proprietary to the airframe company; they are the engine manufacturer.
Dave
David-aviator
Well Known Member
RV's are too fast to be LSA Jerry.
It won't fly.
It won't fly.
n5lp
fugio ergo sum
The Carbon Cub SS engine is the Titan 340CC manufactured by ECI. The same basic engine seems to be used on the Legend Aircraft Super Legend HP. I believe the engine limitations are from ECI but would welcome corrections.
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Infidel
Well Known Member
Not too many people fit that criteria anymore. Myself included!
Or me, but, average me and wife and maybe round down a bit and 170 per person is within sight.
Jesse
Well Known Member
Same here. I'm 255, but my wife's whopping 103 helps our average. Not quite 170, but close.
rv7charlie
Well Known Member
'Useful load', while perhaps seeming not very useful, is basically the difference between empty (no fuel) weight and gross weight. Really no different from '4 seat' certified planes that can only carry 2 with full fuel and a bit of baggage.
There was a time when many in the FAA would say that any engine on an experimental a/c is an experimental engine. Who defines operating parameters on an experimental engine?
There was a time when many in the FAA would say that any engine on an experimental a/c is an experimental engine. Who defines operating parameters on an experimental engine?
terrykohler
Well Known Member
Like the carbon cub, the weight limit is one of the elements that defines it as LSA, not the construction. I'm sure this is the same RV that some builders placard gross weight at 1700 or more. The aircraft will certainly handle the loads. The question in my mind is whether the insurance carrier will cover an accident if the plane was knowingly flown well over certified gross.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
KRviator
Well Known Member
And that is the fundamental point. If the aircraft meets the rules, that is all that matters. In my case, I'll be the first to admit that a -9A that is legally limited to 1320Lbs MTOW isn't as useful as a "normal" RV-9A, but it suits my mission perfectly and that is why people do it. Not because they are out to impress old mate in the next hangar, but because they built their plane to suit their mission, not someone else's.
DaleB
Well Known Member
Plus, it wouldn't really even be an issue for the next owner if you were to sell it. If you're imposed "paper-only" restrictions, the next owner can always raise the gross weight and speeds (with perfectly reasonable justification) and take it out of LSA territory... but you can never go back the other way.
Jesse
Well Known Member
Exactly right!
