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Aeroshell 5 out of production?

Here is the most common reason for these Hartzell compact props to leak out the blade shanks. The rubber in the seals get hard from age. That is one of the many reasons these propellers have a calendar time limit. The hard rubber wears the Teflon strip that is bonded to the actual blade shank. That Teflon strip is the interface between the blade seal seal and the actual blade. Once there is a groove in the Teflon and the seals are hard, Guess what? It leaks.
I've bonded thousands of these to blade shanks over the years. I take great pride in how nice they look when I'm done. If there is an air bubble, in the epoxy, that bonds the Teflon to the shank, under where the seal rides. Then the prop will most likely leak in a couple hundred hours.
 

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Joe, am I seeing the crack where marked?

The blue coloration on the other race is interesting. Is that temperature related?

BTW, thanks for the posts. Keep 'em coming!
.
Here is the crack During Magnetic Particle Inspection (MPI). As you can see it is a "true" indication as it wraps around from one side to the other.
This is of course under Black light and the carrier fluid has green florescence particles suspended in it. When a part is cracked, the crack makes a new north and south pole, when magnetized. The florescent particles "line up" on the new poles created by the crack and thus much easier to see under black light. Using MPI we can also sometimes see sub surface crack/issues, depending on shape and depth of the crack/issue. This is the basis of the NDT, MPI process.
 

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Here is why it is a really bad idea to try and "Purge" the old grease out of the blade retention bearing on a Hartzell "Compact" Prop.
Old hub on the left, newer style on the right. Notice on the outside of the hub and its 1/4 X 28 threaded hole on both hubs, on the outside. Look at the size of the hole on the inside of the new style hub. Do you see how this can be a potential problem? See why I/we/they tell you to poke a hole in the hole opposite of the hole you are applying grease into the hub? There is a reason to tell you to stop when it emerges or 1 oz. It is very easy to over service, by not following the latest Hartzell 115N owners manual (available on the Hartzell website).
If you grease props like the way we used to be instructed to "Purge" the old grease out, you will most likely fill the hub with grease, especially on the new style hubs. Please follow the Manual.
 

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Here is why it is a really bad idea to try and "Purge" the old grease out of the blade retention bearing on a Hartzell "Compact" Prop.
Old hub on the left, newer style on the right. Notice on the outside of the hub and its 1/4 X 28 threaded hole on both hubs, on the outside. Look at the size of the hole on the inside of the new style hub. Do you see how this can be a potential problem? See why I/we/they tell you to poke a hole in the hole opposite of the hole you are applying grease into the hub? There is a reason to tell you to stop when it emerges or 1 oz. It is very easy to over service, by not following the latest Hartzell 115N owners manual (available on the Hartzell website).
If you grease props like the way we used to be instructed to "Purge" the old grease out, you will most likely fill the hub with grease, especially on the new style hubs. Please follow the Manual.

These tips and photos are great, Joe - thanks for sharing them!
 
Agreed! Very cool to see the inside of these props.

Aviation, specifically Propellers have been my life and career for 36 years. I have hundreds of prop pics on my phone, not just Hartzell. I'll post more as I find time. My pleasure actually. I like to educate people. I'd like everyone to be safe. I also own a Cherokee 180 (maybe an RV someday) and I'm painfully aware of how expensive this aviation passion of ours can be.
Here is some more prop pics I had on my phone. This one is filled to the hilt inside the hub (over-serviced with grease). Old blade seals getting hard, Teflon strips are worn almost the the point of wearing into the actual aluminum of the blade shank. In that last pic you can see the dirt sticking to the stream of grease leaking past the blade seal/Teflon. This is why we take them apart at certain intervals. Once we have the prop apart we can address such issues.
 

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Yes, but not quite this...

LOL! Good movie.

No, but if you're out of AS6 (let's say you had a tube last year, but like all these grease guns, this year you pull it out and the grease is all separated and it won't pump, etc.). Or you're just flat out. You can a) hope your friends have some and scrounge it from them, b) not lube the prop for an indefinite time until it becomes available again, or c) take a chance on switching to an equivalent Milspec grease. I see no other option, and given that b is likely to be many months or perhaps a year or longer, that leaves hoping a buddy has some/yours is still good, or switching.

Just wondering what people are planning to do...
 
I have several sets of orings for Hartzells on hand. They are orange silicone orings and sourced from Hartzell. Not the four-lobe orings like you see here. Nitrile orings tend to dry and harden over time and that's not the case with silicone.

So to make improvements here...

1. Use silicone or viton orings.
2. Use a better, harder material for the "teflons".
3. Use a lifetime grease.

Or just buy a Whirlwind with an oil filled hub and deal with 500 hour inspections. But given the "recommended" servicing of Hartzells with grease may cause other problems with leaks and the other potential problems identified here you may be better off with another brand of propeller and it may be less work and expense to deal with the 500 hour intervals.
 
I fly a fixed pitch prop but enjoy the conversation as well as the pictures.
Can you provide a picture of a properly greases hub. I would assume only slight grease in the hub and mainly on the bearing surface.
 
I was just trying to figure out how to get you guys some grease from our shop. We have a 120 lb tub of both Aeroshell #5 and #6 dispensed with a pneumatic grease gun. We really have nothing to dispense the grease into. Un-fortunately, unless you are already a customer I would also have to set you up in our system. I reached out to Tiffen Aire and they have several cases of Aeroshell #5 and #6 tubes available plus the ability to process smallish orders. If you need a tube of #5 or #6 Give them a call at: ​
PHONE :
419-447-4263
 
I fly a fixed pitch prop but enjoy the conversation as well as the pictures.
Can you provide a picture of a properly greases hub. I would assume only slight grease in the hub and mainly on the bearing surface.

Not for a few days. We are assembling a couple of 4 bladed Hartzell Cessna Conquest 441 props soon (Waiting on parts). They are Garrett driven Turbine powered, reversing and feathering, obviously. I'll snap a pic or two when they go back together.
 

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I was just trying to figure out how to get you guys some grease from our shop. We have a 120 lb tub of both Aeroshell #5 and #6 dispensed with a pneumatic grease gun. We really have nothing to dispense the grease into. Un-fortunately, unless you are already a customer I would also have to set you up in our system. I reached out to Tiffen Aire and they have several cases of Aeroshell #5 and #6 tubes available plus the ability to process smallish orders. If you need a tube of #5 or #6 Give them a call at: ​
PHONE :
419-447-4263

Mad Props to Joe :)
 
I was just trying to figure out how to get you guys some grease from our shop. We have a 120 lb tub of both Aeroshell #5 and #6 dispensed with a pneumatic grease gun. We really have nothing to dispense the grease into. Un-fortunately, unless you are already a customer I would also have to set you up in our system. I reached out to Tiffen Aire and they have several cases of Aeroshell #5 and #6 tubes available plus the ability to process smallish orders. If you need a tube of #5 or #6 Give them a call at: ​
PHONE :
419-447-4263

Thanks Joe, I just called and ordered a tube of #5 and #6. Great to have you and your knowledge and experience here.
 
Joe, a question please.

Assume for a moment we're speaking strictly of the popular Hartzell compact hub with the BA aluminum blade. Further, set aside wear and potential failures to function. Let's limit the conversation to things which can kill.

Full or partial blade loss is obvious, and you probably know some other possibilities. What things should we be worried about, and how common are they?
 
Joe, a question please.

Assume for a moment we're speaking strictly of the popular Hartzell compact hub with the BA aluminum blade. Further, set aside wear and potential failures to function. Let's limit the conversation to things which can kill.

Full or partial blade loss is obvious, and you probably know some other possibilities. What things should we be worried about, and how common are they?

Corrosion, corrosion, corrosion... Blades, hubs and bearings. Keep it clean, painted and lubricated. Put aside some money towards maintenance. Very reliable for the most part, if well taken care of. Lots of forces at play with a propeller.
The airline stuff just wears out for the most part. GA props just rot/corrode as they generally are not flown as much.
 
I fly a fixed pitch prop but enjoy the conversation as well as the pictures.
Can you provide a picture of a properly greases hub. I would assume only slight grease in the hub and mainly on the bearing surface.

The black quad seals have been in use for decades, and come in the OH kit right from Hartzell. Our shop uses the OEM kits as the OEM kit has all of the required parts in the kit that are mandatory replacement parts required for overhaul. Current improved orange blade seal/O-ring C-3317-340-8 are about $29 each. More than happy to add them to any overhaul/reseal if you would like, at the additional cost. The turbine Hartzell OH kits come with the C-3317-340-8 blade seals as they move from reverse to feather on every shutdown, most over 90° of pitch change range as compared to the 10-15° on a little compact. I really like the quad seals as they give the owner a nudge that its time for service in about 10 years or so when they spit a little grease you know it is time to take it apart. Like I have said in other posts the seals get hard (Not just the blade seals btw) and the grease is centrifuged back into its oils and thickeners. The oils from the grease breaking down tend to leave the prop 1st.

This prop was overhauled in the 1980's and was resealed in 2001. Thankfully the last shop painted the inside of the hub. We started painting the inside of the hubs in 1991 as directed by Hartzell to prevent corrosion. That also allows a little longer time between overhauls if you look in Hartzell Service Letter 61-61Y. Link here:
https://hartzellprop.com/SERVICE-DOCUMENTS/SL/HC-SL-61-61Y.pdf
 

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We were just forwarded this by the South Florida FSDO. Not good, will probably end up with yet another AD, against yet another bottom feeder shop, performing work on flight safety parts/propellers that do not have the correct parts, tech data, or training:

Please disseminate the following information as widely as possible. Also please include this in any seminar or webinar conducted.

During the time period between January 29, 2016, and March 25, 2021, Trinity Specialized Services, LLC dba Propeller Specialized Services, LLC, in Mountain View, Arkansas, performed maintenance on Hartzell and McCauley constant speed propellers. These propellers may have been improperly returned to service without using the specified required manufacturer parts or approved data; this could significantly impact the integrity of the propeller blades and/or result in a failure of the propeller. A comprehensive list of the items returned to service and contact information for customers is not available.


Barry G. Byrd Sr
FAASTeam Program Manager
Avionics/Airworthiness
South Florida FSDO SO19
2895 SW 145th Ave Ste 120
Miramar, Fl 33027
954-641-6014
[email protected]

 
Thread title change ???

Hi Joe,

Thanks for all the info you provide here. I follow it as it's very informative and I like to learn stuff when I can.
Even if I have a MT prop, I presume they share most of the same inner mechanics and maintenance.

Maybe someone could change the title of this thread as the posts drifted to prop maintenance and care instead of Aeroshell #5 woes...???
 
meant Aeroshell 22 is not compatible with 5 or 6; 22 is synthetic, installed in all new hartzell props, 5 and 6 are not, will not lubricate properly when mixed with 22, there are other mill spec compliant greases, but verrrrry expensive!

Regards,

DAR Gary
 
found a source on eBay

eBay LINK >
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154542037589?hash=item23fb6c5a55:g:I2wAAOSwRpNg-yIJ

It does appear that 5 and 6 and most all of Aeroshell stuff is not being produced now since a major fire at their plant.

WEB LINK Re plant fire>>
https://www.manufacturing.net/safet...prompts-evacuations-in-northern-illinois-town

youtube report on plant fire (A SOBERING VIEW) >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOrxANn92P0

The source on eBay advertises $45 + shipping for a 1 Gal (6.6 lb) bulk can.

I ordered one yesterday and got a response that it was shipping out to me UPS.

No manufacture date was listed. IMO, some 'new' grease has to be better than no grease when you need it and the price was very good compared to other listings on the web - most are in range of $300 +/- for 6.6 lbs.
 
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Well they basically just stated what was already in the manual. No help/ clarification from them; but I honestly wasn't expecting anything from them other than "only use the original grease unless it is tore down" type of line.

I could go down a really deep path, but I won't.
Lawyers....
That is why I'm here. I work on airliners and military props mostly at work. I have a Cherokee 180 (Fine airplane). I'm pilot. I'm a 36 year FAA licensed Propeller Repairman, at probably the best FAR 145 prop shops in the world, also an A&P...
The whole experimental world fascinates me and scares me both at the same time. I think you can tell from the posts on this particular thread for my excitement and a little apprehension.
Anyway, I'll contribute as I can. I love airplanes and aviation.
 
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Or just buy a Whirlwind with an oil filled hub and deal with 500 hour inspections. But given the "recommended" servicing of Hartzells with grease may cause other problems with leaks and the other potential problems identified here you may be better off with another brand of propeller and it may be less work and expense to deal with the 500 hour intervals.

Bob - which Whirlwind model are you referring to? My WW200RV has a 650 hour or 7 year teardown, not 500.
 
I could go down a really deep path, but I won't.
Lawyers....
That is why I'm here. I work on airliners and military props mostly at work. I have a Cherokee 180 (Fine airplane). I'm pilot. I'm a 36 year FAA licensed Propeller Repairman, at probably the best FAR 145 prop shops in the world, also an A&P...
The whole experimental world fascinates me and scares me both at the same time. I think you can tell from the posts on this particular thread for my excitement and a little apprehension.
Anyway, I'll contribute as I can. I love airplanes and aviation.

Yep I'm sure it is all a liability thing.

P.S. I enjoy reading your posts! You should start a thread and just occasionally post some awesome pics/ observations from your shop. You could title the thread "Prop musings by Joe". Haha Seriously, I think a lot of people would be interested in reading it.

P.S.S. Thanks for the link to the grease a while back, I ended up just purchases a can from them.
 
Bob - which Whirlwind model are you referring to? My WW200RV has a 650 hour or 7 year teardown, not 500.

No reference just had it in my head it was 500 hours. Maybe they bumped it up and it was that to begin with.

I was quoted $2K this week for a blade strip/paint/teflons/reseal for a Hartzell so I suggest anyone shopping for a prop take this into account when making a purchase decision.
 
It's significantly cheaper than that for just the hub check on the Whirlwind, I was quoted $1300 if I recall. If the blades are in good shape that's all you need.
 
Whirlwind

No reference just had it in my head it was 500 hours. Maybe they bumped it up and it was that to begin with.

I was quoted $2K this week for a blade strip/paint/teflons/reseal for a Hartzell so I suggest anyone shopping for a prop take this into account when making a purchase decision.

The Whirlwind 300 series is 5yr/500 hour teardowns. At least that's what my manual says
 
P.S. I enjoy reading your posts! You should start a thread and just occasionally post some awesome pics/ observations from your shop. You could title the thread "Prop musings by Joe". Haha Seriously, I think a lot of people would be interested in reading it.

P.S.S. Thanks for the link to the grease a while back, I ended up just purchases a can from them.

I agree on both counts. I learn a lot from Joe’s posts, and his tip netted me a tube of Aeroshell 5&6. Thanks, Joe!
 
You pump grease into one side and the grease should come out the other side of the hub, or until you have inserted 1 oz of grease. Count the pumps into a shot glass if you are unsure what 1 oz looks like. The most important thing I can tell you is that you need to poke the hole where the grease is to emerge with a piece of safety wire or a paper clip or something similar. The wax in the grease will make a temporary plug, so poke before you grease. You add 1 oz or until it emerges out the other side. That is all it gets until next year or 400 Hours, which ever is 1st.
My comments start of post #19 of this thread.
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=201837&page=2
Direction is given in Hartzell owners manual 115N
https://hartzellprop.com/MANUALS/115N-0000-A.pdf

Here is a Hartzell Video:
Lubrication starts about 19:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHSWwJzWgRU

Please call Hartzell or contact myself with any questions pertaining to greasing your prop.

The shot glass tip is a good one. My Hartzell manual has a note that 1 fluid oz. is approximately 6 pumps with a hand operated grease gun with no mention of gun differences. There are many different hand operated guns available that pump widely different amounts of grease per pump. The one that I have takes 56 pumps per 1oz.. I read this in the gun’s manual and then tested it in a shot glass. It came out pretty close.

Another interesting observation on my two blade prop was that one blade took the full 56 pumps with no grease exiting the lower open fitting, while the other blade took only 40 pumps until grease emerged from the lower open hole. So one blade took a full ounce and the other only took about a 1/2 ounce. Neither blade sheds grease in flight. Not sure what to conclude, but an interesting point.
 
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I reached out to Tiffen Aire and they have several cases of Aeroshell #5 and #6 tubes available plus the ability to process smallish orders. If you need a tube of #5 or #6 Give them a call at: ​
PHONE :
419-447-4263

I just bought 2 tubes of AS 5 this morning, so wanted to let the VAF world know Tiffen Aire still has some at the moment.
 
Another interesting observation on my two blade prop was that one blade took the full 56 pumps with no grease exiting the lower open fitting, while the other blade took only 40 pumps until grease emerged from the lower open hole.

This seems like a HUGE number of pumps on a grease gun, at least any grease gun *I've* ever seen/used. If I pumped mine nearly 60 times, I'd have a veritable mountain of grease.

You *sure* it's 56 pumps?
 
This seems like a HUGE number of pumps on a grease gun, at least any grease gun *I've* ever seen/used. If I pumped mine nearly 60 times, I'd have a veritable mountain of grease.

You *sure* it's 56 pumps?

Yep. I measured an ounce from the gun prior to servicing the prop and counted the pumps. It seemed off to me to, so I found the gun’s manual online and verified it. The gun looks no different from other guns I’ve owned, but it is definitely metered differently. That was the reason for my post, so others would know to check their grease guns if they aren’t sure how many pumps deliver an ounce.
 
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Aeroshell #5 or #6 grease.

I just bought 2 tubes of AS 5 this morning, so wanted to let the VAF world know Tiffen Aire still has some at the moment.

As of May 12, 2022 at 9:52 AM PST Tiffin Aire only has Aeroshell #6 in bulk & will pump it into zip lock bags for shipment.
 
Yep. I measured an ounce from the gun prior to servicing the prop and counted the pumps. It seemed off to me to, so I found the gun’s manual online and verified it. The gun looks no different from other guns I’ve owned, but it is definitely metered differently. That was the reason for my post, so others would know to check their grease guns if they aren’t sure how many pumps deliver an ounce.

Just to add to the confusion, here is a chart from locknlube of their different grease guns. Number of pumps per ounce vary between guns and none put out an ounce in 6 pumps like the Hartzell manual mentions.

36489C45-A145-47E5-9FB3-ABFA6E425DF9.jpeg
 
Yep. I measured an ounce from the gun prior to servicing the prop and counted the pumps. It seemed off to me to, so I found the gun’s manual online and verified it. The gun looks no different from other guns I’ve owned, but it is definitely metered differently. That was the reason for my post, so others would know to check their grease guns if they aren’t sure how many pumps deliver an ounce.

Just to follow up here. You say it took something like 56 pumps of your gun to get one ounce, somebody else said 24 IIRC for them.

Are you guys measuring *fluid* ounces? I ask because I just checked my gun (I've always just used the "6 pumps" limit per Hartzell, but decided to verify it), and 6 pumps gave me an amount by volume that looks by my eye to be about 1 *fluid* ounce...two tablespoons. But by *weight* it was 0.1 ounces, which would mean IF I were to mistakenly use avoirdupois ounces (i.e., by weight), it would take 50-60 pumps of my gun...just as it did on yours.

I'm asking out of a safety concern...did you measure by weight, or volume? Because if you're using a measurement by weight, you are WAY overgreasing the hub.
 
3 Specific Questions

Great thread but has experienced some drift.
Since this thread has been resurrected I have 3 specific questions:

1. Is Aeroshell #5 or #6 available? Spruce still shows them as
"no stock."

2. If not, has Hartzell come out with any new service instructions given the Aeroshell non-availability?

3. If not, what should one service one's prop with?
 
Great thread but has experienced some drift.
Since this thread has been resurrected I have 3 specific questions:

1. Is Aeroshell #5 or #6 available? Spruce still shows them as
"no stock."

2. If not, has Hartzell come out with any new service instructions given the Aeroshell non-availability?

3. If not, what should one service one's prop with?

1. I got a couple of tubes from ACS a couple of months ago, so perhaps they are?

2 and 3 I'll leave for others.
 
Great thread but has experienced some drift.
Since this thread has been resurrected I have 3 specific questions:

1. Is Aeroshell #5 or #6 available? Spruce still shows them as
"no stock."

2. If not, has Hartzell come out with any new service instructions given the Aeroshell non-availability?

3. If not, what should one service one's prop with?

NYCO GN-3058. Ref Hartzell manual 202A, page 1-11 (PDF page 47).
https://hartzellprop.com/MANUALS/202A-V07-0000-A.pdf
 
Some of the info in this thread is gonna get someone killed or cost them allot of money!

Do not service a prop that has been previously filled with Aeroshell #5 or #6 with any of the other approved greases mentioned in the manuals. The only way to swap grease is to send the prop in for a teardown! (exception is AS #5 & #6 can be mixed but with caveats)

https://hartzellprop.com/SERVICE-DOCUMENTS/SL/HC-SL-61-366.pdf
 
Right. And the info re: Nyco hasn't changed since sometime in 2021 or 2022, IIRC. Also what hasn't changed is this, in the Manual:

(a) The same grease type should be used during
re-lubrication unless the propeller has been
disassembled and the old grease removed...
(7) If different grease types are accidentally mixed, the
propeller must be disassembled and cleaned in
accordance with the applicable overhaul/maintenance
manual within three months or 30 flights whichever occurs
first.
(a) EXCEPTION: Aeroshell 5 and Aeroshell 6 greases
both have a mineral oil base and the same thickening
agent; therefore, mixing of these two greases is
permitted in Hartzell propellers.
WARNING: WHEN MIXING AEROSHELL 5 AND
AEROSHELL 6 GREASES, THE
AIRCRAFT MUST BE PLACARDED
TO INDICATE THAT FLIGHT IS
PROHIBITED IF THE OUTSIDE AIR
TEMPERATURE IS LESS THAN -40° F
(-40° C). AEROSHELL 5 GREASE
MUST BE INDICATED ON THE LABEL

so nothing has changed wrt NOT mixing greases, as Brantel and others have stated.

I only reopened this thread to hopefully keep someone from pumping WAY too much grease into the hub, if they were using ounces (by weight) and not ounces (by volume), as it appears some might have done. Didn't mean to start a debate on mixing greases :).
 
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Just got an email that the backorder AeroShell 6 grease I backordered 18-months ago is now in stock and ready to ship. Told them I still want it and to ship it. Yes the price is now $16.95 but that should keep my prop going till it goes in for I.R.A.N. reseal or overhaul. I still have AeroShell 6 in my grease gun and this is my SPARE tube. Most likely the prop shop will switch it over the newer grease at that time.
 
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