Van's Air Force
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Vans yearly increase?
- Thread starter miyu1975
- Start date
bgrandorff
Active Member
Prices
I can't imagine that any company is seriously considering it right now.
Several GA aircraft companies are offering incentives for purchases currently.
With the flood of recent used kits and completed RVs on the market due to the economy, plus just that...the economy, my guess is that their sales are down at likely close to double digits... but that's all conjecture!
There have been several recent announcements of layoffs as well from Cessna and a few other manufacturers in the GA world.
I can't imagine that any company is seriously considering it right now.
Several GA aircraft companies are offering incentives for purchases currently.
With the flood of recent used kits and completed RVs on the market due to the economy, plus just that...the economy, my guess is that their sales are down at likely close to double digits... but that's all conjecture!
There have been several recent announcements of layoffs as well from Cessna and a few other manufacturers in the GA world.
craigvince
Well Known Member
Yes, this year too.
Go to Van's home page, and scroll down. You'll find this link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/2009_kit_pricing.pdf
Go to Van's home page, and scroll down. You'll find this link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/2009_kit_pricing.pdf
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
I've been in the HVAC sheetmetal business for a long time. Last year, we saw large pricing increases in sheetmetal and aluminum products. At this point, I haven't seen the prices of finished metal products coming down yet; which will certainly effect Van's pricing.
L.Adamson
L.Adamson
Prices have definitely come down. My company was buying steel at over 60 cents a pound earlier this year and now it is back down in the 40s.
az_gila
Well Known Member
Seems to have come down...
...for aluminum too, according to these charts....
http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/al/al.asp
...charts won't paste in....
...for aluminum too, according to these charts....
http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/al/al.asp
...charts won't paste in....
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Then we'll expect the finished product prices to come down, in the near future............won't we?
Copper has certainly dropped.L.Adamson
rv7boy
Forum Peruser
Don't worry about Van's price increases
This thread is a bunch of entropy. A lot of energy expended and no net work. [Professor Zagrodzky's Corollary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics]
Anyone who has dealt with Van's Aircraft through the years knows that their customer satisfaction is among the highest in the industry. If you can't trust them to deal honestly with you, then who can you trust? Not to say that there aren't complaints occasionally, but compared to other businesses in the homebuilt industry, Van's is right up there at the top in providing value to homebuilders at a fair profit.
PLUS...READ the web page...
"...(Note that these price changes are for Standard and QuickBuild airframe kits
only. (Prices for engines, propellers, firewall forward kits, etc. are adjusted on a
different schedule.)..."
Yes, there will probably be price changes, but they will be in line with Van's history, i.e., FAIR.
As the song says, "Don't worry, Be happy!"
Build on!
Don
P.S. My wife and I own a small family business. In addition to the cost of goods sold, we have to pay labor, taxes, property taxes, insurance, rent, utilities, phone bill (don't get me started on how Ma Bell rips a small business for a single phone line!), advertising, printing, web page, and a host of other things that all add up. I think the cost of sheet aluminum is a smaller piece of Van's total operating budget than some people think. Yes the cost of aluminum affects Van's prices, but that's not the whole story.
This thread is a bunch of entropy. A lot of energy expended and no net work. [Professor Zagrodzky's Corollary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics]
Anyone who has dealt with Van's Aircraft through the years knows that their customer satisfaction is among the highest in the industry. If you can't trust them to deal honestly with you, then who can you trust? Not to say that there aren't complaints occasionally, but compared to other businesses in the homebuilt industry, Van's is right up there at the top in providing value to homebuilders at a fair profit.
PLUS...READ the web page...
"...(Note that these price changes are for Standard and QuickBuild airframe kits
only. (Prices for engines, propellers, firewall forward kits, etc. are adjusted on a
different schedule.)..."
Yes, there will probably be price changes, but they will be in line with Van's history, i.e., FAIR.
As the song says, "Don't worry, Be happy!"
Build on!
Don
P.S. My wife and I own a small family business. In addition to the cost of goods sold, we have to pay labor, taxes, property taxes, insurance, rent, utilities, phone bill (don't get me started on how Ma Bell rips a small business for a single phone line!), advertising, printing, web page, and a host of other things that all add up. I think the cost of sheet aluminum is a smaller piece of Van's total operating budget than some people think. Yes the cost of aluminum affects Van's prices, but that's not the whole story.
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hydroguy2
Well Known Member
Plan for the increase to be 5%.....
and be happy if it's less.
From what I've seen, Vans operates on a slim margin, gives a good value and is most likely a good employer. In order to do all the above, prices will go up due to energy cost, taxes, benefits and treating the employees respectfully. Expect to pay accordingly. Let them do what they need to do to keep it together.
Despite raw material costs going down recently, my household costs are up.
YMMV
Go Vans
and be happy if it's less.
From what I've seen, Vans operates on a slim margin, gives a good value and is most likely a good employer. In order to do all the above, prices will go up due to energy cost, taxes, benefits and treating the employees respectfully. Expect to pay accordingly. Let them do what they need to do to keep it together.
Despite raw material costs going down recently, my household costs are up.
YMMV
Go Vans
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
I previously mentioned that finished product sheet metal goods haven't really gone down yet. And checking with suppliers in the last few hours, they still have not..... by much. An example is a sheet of galvanized sheet metal, which was $18.74 in Sept.; after an 18% rise over the course of the summer. It has now gone down 20 cents. Until stocks and inventory are depleted, the finished products won't reflect today's raw material prices.
Some manufactures might have even bought material stocks to cover a years worth of production, as a hedge against future price increases. That's common practice. Now, they have to do a juggling act, to keep competitive.
But as already mentioned, Van's does run a slim margin. I've dealt with them for about 15 years. Sometimes (more than not), their finished product isn't much more than the un-bent sheet of aluminum.
L.Adamson
Some manufactures might have even bought material stocks to cover a years worth of production, as a hedge against future price increases. That's common practice. Now, they have to do a juggling act, to keep competitive.
But as already mentioned, Van's does run a slim margin. I've dealt with them for about 15 years. Sometimes (more than not), their finished product isn't much more than the un-bent sheet of aluminum.
L.Adamson
rv7boy
Forum Peruser
Yes...pretty amazing when one considers all the other costs a business has to pay just to keep the doors open.
Don
BrentHumphreys
Well Known Member
So is there any word on what the actual price increase is?
They don't know yet.
I ask Van's what the increases would be on the 12 and this is the response I received on 1 Dec. I would think it would apply to models.
"Harold, Unfortunately, we don't have the prices pinned down yet. We are currently negotiating new aluminum contracts and waiting for new pricing from our various vendors.
Until we have that info, we're not able to determine our pricing. Probably won't be finalized until the 3rd week in December. Historically, prices have increased 1-3% on the kits. I would anticipate similar increases this year."
Sure hope the increase is on the low end.
I ask Van's what the increases would be on the 12 and this is the response I received on 1 Dec. I would think it would apply to models.
"Harold, Unfortunately, we don't have the prices pinned down yet. We are currently negotiating new aluminum contracts and waiting for new pricing from our various vendors.
Until we have that info, we're not able to determine our pricing. Probably won't be finalized until the 3rd week in December. Historically, prices have increased 1-3% on the kits. I would anticipate similar increases this year."
Sure hope the increase is on the low end.
rbibb
Well Known Member
I'd suspect that the raw material price (aluminum mostly) is only about 15-20% max of the cost of a Van's kit.
AN RV-4 finished weigh around 950lbs. Take away 350 for engine, paint, misc and you get maybe 600 lbs. 2024 probably costs around $3/lb. So there is only a couple of grand max in Aluminum costs in a Van's kit.
So metal prices, while a factor, are not the dominant factor in kit pricing decisions....
AN RV-4 finished weigh around 950lbs. Take away 350 for engine, paint, misc and you get maybe 600 lbs. 2024 probably costs around $3/lb. So there is only a couple of grand max in Aluminum costs in a Van's kit.
So metal prices, while a factor, are not the dominant factor in kit pricing decisions....
Increase based on copper or silver prices is BS IMHO. Feel free to look the prices of raw material. Therefore prices of raw material are about same as three years ago or less. And based on end of 2007 prices the silver has gone down about 50 % while copper even more. However what are the expectations about upcoming prices will affect as well. It seems silver is getting price again while copper coming still down...
Silver 3 years at NYMEX:
http://metalprices.com/PubCharts/Pu...ype=V&weight=LB&days=36&size=M&bg=&cs=1&cid=0
Copper 3 years at COMEX:
http://metalprices.com/PubCharts/Pu...ype=C&weight=LB&days=36&size=M&bg=&cs=1&cid=0
All materials and charts:
http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/al/al.asp
