Pilot fatigue-Tired after flight

Gents,

I have about 70+ hours on my RV-7A. I am a low time pilot with approximately 190 hours with half flown 20+ years ago and half in the past year and a half.

The longest time I have spent in the cockpit is 2.5 hours. Most of my flight range from .7 to 1.5 hours. One thing I am noticing is that after my flights after I drive home I am very tired. I know that I concentrate a lot while I am flying and get a little "tense" during takeoffs, landings and in turbulence. But I am really surprised how "burned out" I feel after a flight.

My wife recently started flying with me and see too feels this way. She is afraid of flying but is getting over it.

I just returned from a 1.4 hour (round trip) breakfast flight today with my wife and I was "burned out".

My engine (airplane that is) runs smooth, I use a clarity aloft headset and I don't fly very high so O2 isn't an issue. I am 50 yrs old in good heath and I exercise (aerobic).

Do others feel the same way after a flight? Is it that I am internally stressing during the flight and don't know it? Any ideas on how to improve this?

Pmerems said:

Gents,

I have about 70+ hours on my RV-7A. I am a low time pilot with approximately 190 hours with half flown 20+ years ago and half in the past year and a half.

The longest time I have spent in the cockpit is 2.5 hours. Most of my flight range from .7 to 1.5 hours. One thing I am noticing is that after my flights after I drive home I am very tired. I know that I concentrate a lot while I am flying and get a little "tense" during takeoffs, landings and in turbulence. But I am really surprised how "burned out" I feel after a flight.

My wife recently started flying with me and see too feels this way. She is afraid of flying but is getting over it.

I just returned from a 1.4 hour (round trip) breakfast flight today with my wife and I was "burned out".

My engine (airplane that is) runs smooth, I use a clarity aloft headset and I don't fly very high so O2 isn't an issue. I am 50 yrs old in good heath and I exercise (aerobic).

Do others feel the same way after a flight? Is it that I am internally stressing during the flight and don't know it? Any ideas on how to improve this?

Click to expand...

We get that way too. But not always. I hear that oxygen at lower altitudes will make a difference.............and there is a few times we've used it at the 10,500' levels, but I usually don't until 12,500.

Most of our flights, are from 8,500 to 10,500.

L.Adamson

I felt this way after my first flight, only 20 minutes. Stress can do this to you, as I wrote almost a year ago in this thread.


Another possibility is that you are getting some exhaust into the cabin.

Fatigue is one of the symptoms of low level carbon monoxide exposure also headache.

Try a flight with O2 just for fun.

no problem here. can fly all day. flew 6 young eagles and 1 adult today, 2.4, feel great.
you are aware of the issue, im sure you will get better with time. stay nourished and try to relax and enjoy the flight. if you are tense that will tire you out. have your wife rub your back while you fly. keep us posted.

Altitude

Paul, part of the fatique you are feeling in the altitude. What's TUS? About 2700'? Add on the altitude you fly at and it's like living in the mountains! Heart rate is up, pressure changes, heat in AZ and of course you are working your brain flying - stress at any level small or large will make you tired.

One other item is dehydration, of course drink too much and you'll have another issue to deal with

Good question and I'm sure you'll receive more responses on the physiology of this.

Try eating a low fat, low sugar meal or snack before you go flying and drink plenty of water first (not too much you can't make it to your destination).

Regularly flew 6-8hr missions without getting out of the aircraft. Eating a snack before launch helped tremendously.

You probably are stressing a bit and this takes a bunch of energy. Try to relax once you are at altitude and don't worry so much about being exactly on every parameter every second...it's ok to just wing-it a bit every now and then - enjoy it!!!

hmmm...

Have you checked CO levels in the cabin?

Do you have an autopilot? I used to feel the same way after a long flight holding course and altitude for hours. I added an autopilot with alt. hold and now long trips are a piece of cake.

Paul Danclovic
Jamestown NC
RV-8A N181SB

Pmerems said:

snip...



Any ideas on how to improve this?

Click to expand...

I vote for good sleep Paul. I've flown a leg over 5 hours @10.5 well rested and it was a non event. But next leg of 4.2 hours with less sleep and intensive socializing took the toll, I got headache by the time I got home. Sleep, eat, relax. Exercise may not help in this case. The flight itself is already good mental and physical exersice.

Check that!

Excellent words of advice here...Definately check the CO level......

I think Crusty and Paul might have some good ideas for you.

I flew 11.5 Hobbs one day from Memphis to Boeing Field and felt tired like you do but that was a long day. My buddy waiting for me to pop the canopy, with a Fosters in hand, was sure a pick me up!

Normally no problem doing a couple 3-4 hour legs a day. I always use O2 from 9500' and up. That's when the Mountain High kicks in set at 10K.

Hope you figure it out. Something's wrong.

I wouldn't discount the value of oxygen in the cockpit until you have tried it. At the very least, buy/beg/borrow a pulse oximeter, and check your O2 levels at altitude. Different people are affected at different altitudes, and you may find that supplemental O2 is useful at altitudes as low as 5000' ASL.

I used to do a lot of instructing in college, there were months I was in the triple digits. Some of those days bagging 8 hours over and over were just awful.

Then I got an ANR headset, Bose to be exact. It was AMAZING the difference. I felt soooo much better at the end of every day. The constant low frequency droning can have a lot more of an effect that you think.

Also.... What kind of physical shape are you in?

Checking the plane is also a big must. I too would be checking CO levels.

Excellent suggestions and comments above. All of them.

I've noticed that on turbulent days I'm much more fatigued than on smooth ones. There's no comparison.

Dave

Fatigue

My longest day was 11.7 hrs of prop turning time. 19 take-offs and landings.
(185 on floats.) Last trip of the day was a rescue mission to get firefighters out. Darn rights I was tired. Pizza never looked so good...

I now use oxygen for long legs over 8000. Helps to combat fatigue and also clears the mind.
Remember a one hour trip is not only the hour you fly. You flight plan, drive to the airport, do the pre-flight, fuel the plane, file a flight plan, brief your passengers, go fly, put the airplane away, drive home ect.

You also have to remember to eat and stay hydrated at the right time. If you have a long leg ahead of you don't have too much water at the start of your flight. I wait until I am about an hour from my destination to have water.
I carry those porta john things you can get from truck stops or pilot shops just in case.

Noise is very fatiguing as another poster mentioned. When ANR heasets first came out I flew a 4 hour day with one and could not believe how much of an impact it had.

Stress / tension is real tiring and will spur on a headache. When your ready to fly, relax for a couple of minutes to clear your mind before you fire up the engine.
If you're excited or anxious about the next day's flight it will be dificult to get a good night's rest. If you get up in need of more rest, doesn't matter what you do, you'll be tired that day. Exercise is very important and you mention you get some so that's great.
Your passengers are stressed 'cause you are stressed perhaps. Don't forget to take care of their needs before and during a flight but never compromise safety. Always fly the plane first. Some passengers are stressed no matter what.

The more you fly the less it will cause you to be anxious or stressed about it. So get out and fly! The more times you do a pre-flight, run up etc the more proficient you will feel. Go up with an instructor if your not feeling comfortable about a certain aspect of flying. Set personal limits for weather and types of flying.
There is no rule that says how long you should fly for at a time. Go out for 10minutes, 20 minutes whatever.

You're doing the right thing setting out to identify the cause of your fatigue that's great. Get some rest and go fly!

one more for the stats

Paul,
I am a similar pilot, about half the time, but also returning to the cockpit after a 20-year hiatus.
I feel very similar to you after even a :40 min. flight, especially in the heat.
Mike has excellent comments here, so I wont' repeat. I can't imagine with both vents wide open there is any CO in the cabin.
But as others have said, I think about a cross-country the entire week before, then don't sleep at nite, because I'm excited about it ( and a little anxious).
Then the day of the flight, it's 12 hours of intense mental work to preflight, fly, and then wrap up then entire adventure.
Probably the :40 in the air, on a nice day, is the least stressful part, holding the stick with 2 fingers and looking at the scenery, ( and gauges).
One day you may not even think about going to the field, kickin' the tires and lightin' the fires like some of our brethren do, without your pulse going over 68 the whole time.
For now, I guess we both have to get more stick time, and assess the safe operation of each flight to our comfort level.
Perhaps a good flying buddy ( pilot) would alleviate some of the 'stress' that accompanies the entire exercise?

As others mentioned check the CO levels. If this is normal then I would chalk it up to stress. Yeah I know, none of us manly pilots want to admit that doing something we love (flying) may stress us out. But as you mentioned...you are a low time pilot in a new style plane and you are flying your wife around. You are very busy making sure everything is safe and your wife feels comfortable and that she can put her confidence and trust in you. As a result your mental motor is running at 110% (as it should be). This is why you have this huge let down and burn out after a flight.
I have felt the same way. The more I fly, the less I feel burnt out after a flight. I have 130 hours TT, primarily in Cessna 172, Piper Saratoga, and RV-7's. Believe it or not the 172 stresses me out the most...why? Because I am the PIC on board. The Saratoga and the RV have always been flown with a CFII and guess what...no burn out BECAUSE I know there is a back up if I get stuck. In the Cessna, I am always alone flying passengers. I am very acutely aware of my responsibility when I am flying that plane especially with passengers. As my experience builds I don't feel that as much but I would argue that this same scenario is why you are feeling the way you do. Be honest with yourself and your skill level and progress as you feel comfortable. Good luck!

I think that feeling goes away with experience

After I learned to fly I was in a flying club that organized fly-ins all over the southwest and Mexico. When we reached the destination, usually about 3 hours away, I would be worn and laying down for a power nap was a wonderful thing. Other folks on the trips were ready to start savoring the joys of the destination immediately. I recognized it for what it was - I was tense the entire flight trying to assure I complied with all of the FAA rules, communication, fuel management, systems monitoring, weather avoidance and navigation necessities. I told myself this is the thing I want to do more than anything else, just do it and take pride in the accomplishment. If it were easy it really wouldn't mean much. I really believe you will acclimate to the task and not be so tired if you persist with longer trips to meaningful destinations. I am now 75 and have more than 5,000 flight hours and I truely LOVE to plan long flights and make the trips.

Bob Axsom

I believe it's an adreniline come-down.

Been there, done that.

I got a wild hair a few years ago and flew for a bit over seventeen hours in one day. Really wasn't that tired! Team RV practice sessions leave me exhausted after flying for 45 minutes. I think it has something to do with extreme mental focus that burns me out.

Alt in South America

Even when we are having fun flying there is stress involved and everyone will handle this differently. As well when we at the lower altitudes of 6000 or 7000 your density altitude on a hot summer day could be closer to 10,000 feet. Add these together and some of us will be exhausted and some of us will get splitting headaches after the flights and myself included. Being in shape physically or aerobically does not make you immune to this as we all metabolize our oxygen differently.

The last 6 years I have been working and living in Quito Ecuador, Bogota Colombia, Cusco and Arequipa Peru (these citys are from 7800' to over 9200' asl) and I have experienced altitude sickness or soroche as they call it here. It dawned on me what I had been experiencing on my longer and higher trips that I used to do years ago in my Cardinal was probably due to soroche. Down here the locals drink mate de coca to live and survive at these altitudes. Think of a real bad hangover and that’s what soroche is like. A cup or 2 of the tea will fix you up in 45 mins to where you can get on with your day with no headache or even go to sleep. But if we try that in the USA chances are we could end up in jail and or lose our licenses.

Monitor your O2 levels and try breathing supplemental O2 even at the lower altitudes and I’m sure it’s going to help.

Tim

Mental stress.

I usually fly at least 8 hours a day, six days a week, during my ag work, in the hot Georgia summers without A/C in the airplane....(gonna fix that).

I'm a very high time pilot and the flying comes naturally but the mental stress of avoiding objects...trees, fences, deer and center pivot irrigation systems carry a heavy brain load. Just laying my recliner back after a long day of 10-12 loads, really eases my head.

As some else pointed out...an autopilot is a huge relief.

Best,

I vote for stress and possibly CO, too!! I have flown my 7A over 8 hrs in one day and felt fine. Way more relaxing than driving. Also make sure you are rigged properly and the plane flys well hands off. If you are constantly working for straight and level flight, that adds to the fatigue. You should be flying with two fingers and your arms relaxed.

Roberta

paul330 said:

I believe it's an adreniline come-down.

Click to expand...

Bingo! Given the factors you mentioned, I would certainly consider this as part of the cause of your fatigue. Same thing hit me -- hard -- after my first few flights in Smokey. New plane, low confidence in both myself and the plane, long hiatus in my flying career, minimal preparation to get current, comfortable and tailwheel-endorsed ... dumb, honestly.

I was absolutely wiped out after each flight. My old, sedate body was very unused to adrenaline rushes. The fatigue and jitters were very discomforting.

The good news is that now, with 180 hours in the cockpit, I'm much more relaxed when I fly and no longer feel wiped when I land. In fact, my bigger worry now is BOREDOM! On a long trip (anything more than two hours) I climb to altitude, trim to speed and make sure that the engine is happy, hit the TruTrack and ... well ... play with the XM radio.

Check your CO levels, get some rest before you fly, try O2, etc. I'm betting that more time flying and getting comfortable with your plane and yourself will decrease your symptoms. Keep us apprised of your progress

Will Improve

I think it's something that will improve with time as your comfort level increases in the airplane. Mental gymnastics are TERRIBLY fatiguing. The first time I flew to Nantucket from Trenton NJ I was wiped-out for the rest of the day. My last "long" flight was to Burlington Vt and back within a 5 hr time period - no problem.

I think if it was CO, you would have other symptoms, but would not hurt to bring along a CO monitor on your next flight (a household one should work). Also, a pulse-Ox (finger device) would be a good idea - you can get them for under 30 bucks.

I have about 70+ hours on my RV-7A.
The longest time I have spent in the cockpit is 2.5 hours. Most of my flight range from .7 to 1.5 hours. One thing I am noticing is that after my flights after I drive home I am very tired.

My wife recently started flying with me and see too feels this way. She is afraid of flying but is getting over it.

I just returned from a 1.4 hour (round trip) breakfast flight today with my wife and I was "burned out".

I am 50 yrs old in good heath and I exercise (aerobic).

Click to expand...

The fact that you have put 70+ hrs on your RV suggests that by now stress should not be causing you extreme fatigue after only 1.5 hrs. Especially not if you broke the 1.5 hr flight in two with breakfeast in between.

If it were fatigue the problem should be getting better by now.

While O2 helps at any altitude you should not require it just to feel normal after a 1.5 hr flight at low altitude.

I would agree CO is a possibility (do you have a headache, feel nausea, or flulike symptoms)?

If you exclude CO as a cause you should probably see your physician for an evaluation for medical reasons.

In aviation when something seems wrong there is probably a problem and problems seldom to never resolve themselves.

Glasses

Paul
Don't rule out glasses. Your looking outside for traffic then inside at the gauges or screen and trying to refocus quickly expecially in bumpy conditions. I know that with my astigmatism(sp) I would be exhausted after reading for a while due to my left eye having to continually focus. All good suggestions on here though.
Non-related but I absolutely love my DRDT2.

Hungry!

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I don't feel tired after flying, but I am almost always really hungry!

Many Factors

Hi Paul,

Congrats on getting your plane going and getting some time on the Hobbs. Many have hit on the key issues. I don't fly as much as Pierre but fly in a high stress environment in the medical helicopter World. I don't get any of those feelings.

My longest flight in the RV was 11.5 hours in the seat from South Carolina to Chandler. Auto pilot, XM weather and music on board. I was thoroughly exhausted at the end.

As has been mentioned, get a CO2 detector. (I'm putting the CO Guardian panel mounted unit in the new plane). Also, get a oximeter and do some checking. You may not be processing the O2 as well as you think.

Try to relax when you fly. This will improve with time. I believe you could be just, "coming down," from the flight.

Do some self investigation and remedies, then, if no improvement is noted, check in with your doctor for a top down physical.

Keep everyone posted.

Great suggestions

Gents,

I appreciate the input. I want to expand on my flying.

As I mentioned I have about 70+ hours in my RV-7A. My phase I 40 hours were flown protecting the southeastern Arizona skys from invading C-172's from across the border. However southeastern Arizona is mountainous and lots of turbulence and wind shear during the majority of my 40 hours. Additionally the temps were climbing into the high 90's before I flew off the 40 hours.

During my flights I didn't drink much because as I have gotten older my bladder isn't what it used to be so I limit my H20 intake. But most of those flights were 1-1.5 hours. Many times once I got out of the plane I was dripping with sweat. This isn't that uncommon in AZ. However later in the day I would get a nasty headache from dehydration. I learned to drink more while flying.

To get just about anywhere outside of Tucson (not including the Phoenix area) you will be flying over some serious mountains. The day before the flight I do some online flight planning, view the airport diagrams, print out all the info I need. I even look at the airport from Google Earth to see what it really looks like and the surrounding area. I also look for You Tube videos of others who have landed at the airport so I can see what the approach looks like. So I feel I am well prepared for the flight.

I think about the flight before bed and usually get my 6+ hours of sleep. I wake up calm but as I drive to the airport I can feel the anxiety/excitement building. One good thing about this buildup is that it gets my bowels moving when I arrive at the airport. Now I am "cleared" and ready for the flight.

My anxiety level increases with engine start then it fades. It reappears on takeoff roll and during the landing sequence. But when I cross over the mountains the pucker factor increases a bit. In the back of my mind I am always thinking ?what happens if the engine quits where will I land.? And there aren't many good choices at times. I don't let the thought consume me but I know that it is ever present. Usually there is some turbulence associated with flying around the mountains and this just adds to the excitement.

Most of my phase I flying was during the early summer the vents were wide open and my firewall is sealed well so I doubt it is a CO issue. I have a CO ?dot? monitor and show no signs of trouble. But I was wondering about the possibility of CO causing the symptoms. Now that it is getting colder and I will be using the heater (using Van?s heater valve), there could be a greater likely hood of CO getting into the cockpit.

Could it be an O2 issue? Maybe and I will be getting an O2 monitor since I will be flying at higher altitudes for long cross countries.

I do have an autopilot but most of my flights recently have been short and I haven?t used it much. I will be using it more as I increase my flight distances.

My best guess is that it is anxiety/excitement and adrenalin that is causing this. I hope as I get more RV experience and flying longer distances (more time to relax between takeoffs and landing) and using the autopilot more I will feel more relaxed.

Thanks for the help.

Earlier in my relationship with my Hiperbipe, even a 30 minute flight would sometimes have me completely wiped out. Following engine shutdown, it would sometimes take me several minutes to calm down and gather the strength to climb out. That has passed, fortunately. Some of the biggest drivers for me have been mentioned, namely good ANR headsets (huge difference!), an autopilot, hydration and confidence. Interestingly, turbulence often relaxes me. I have to make sure I don't get lulled to sleep sometimes. Even my non-pilot wife has gone from nervous to sleepy in the face of turbulence.

Mountain Flying Bible

Pmerems said:

Gents,
But when I cross over the mountains the pucker factor increases a bit. In the back of my mind I am always thinking “what happens if the engine quits where will I land.” And there aren't many good choices at times. I don't let the thought consume me but I know that it is ever present. Usually there is some turbulence associated with flying around the mountains and this just adds to the excitement.

Click to expand...

Look up the book, "Mountain Flying Bible" by Sparky Imeson. It's full of great mountain flying and other knowledge that will give you a big boost in mountain flying confidence. It includes information such as how to find smooth air on a windy day, how to take a proper fuel sample (yes there is a technique) and so much more...