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Building an RV in this economy? Are you nuts?

Brian,
I know you are very excited about the RV. But what I see in your panel is way too much if you are worried about money. The two EFIS's is a start. One EFIS will do both that you want them to do, I know because I have ONE D180 in my panel. You are wanting IFR, are you sure? most people that I know of that have IFR in their panel never use it, only for recerts. Why? because to fly IFR you need to worry about icing as well and the RV can't take care of that, meaning you can't put the things on the aircraft that take care of icing. It was meantioned about the GPS being used with goto only, that's what I use mine for, I turned everything else off, all warning everything, I just use the goto. If money is an issue, you might want to scale down.

Only one Efis, the other is engine monitor only...
I want the extra screen space due to the fact that I want EFIS, EMS and HSI on the panel at the same time and it cost ~$1200 to get it but even with that, this is still a very cost effective solution.

My IFR capability will only be used to stay current, get on top of thin layers, and shoot the occasional approach to circling minimums. If it takes hours of hard clag above the freezing level or approaches to 200ft, I ain't going.

Another reason my panel plan looks like it does is to get the most value out of the plan. For instance, the smaller Dynon EMS works just fine and would give me what I want (EFIS, EMS, HSI on the panel at the same time) but for $200 more you get a large screen. Which is the better value?

There is also the fact that I am a tech geek and love avionics, navigation, AP's, GPS's and their integration to the systems, etc. To be sitting in a rats nest of wires for days making connections and being able to turn it all on and see it play together will be the peak of my build! Part of the challenge for me is to integrate all of this stuff and then get out there on a CAVU day and make it all work. If I can't have some of these gadgets in the plane, I would question my reasoning for building it. After all that is what I love most about flying and instrument work, getting out there and doing it even if it is not in actual IMC conditions.

Also, some of this panel may come in stages as all of it is definitely not needed for phase I :D
 
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Right after I ordered the wing kit one of life's little expenses came up, so I won't be able to order the fuselage kit anytime soon. My solution is to just work slower. I go out and bang away for a couple hours and then go do something else. I'm still building but at a pace my wallet can stand.
As someone has already pointed out a partially finished kit is almost worthless so you might as well keep on with what you have and buy more as you can.

Give the United States some credit, this downturn will end. I've been an airline pilot for 32 years. I think this is the forth or fifth, (I've lost count), end of the world, everyone is furloughed, this is the end, cycle I've seen. And somehow airplanes are still flying.

It will get better, and you will have an RV to boot.

Sooner or later, but probably much later, Randy.

Back in '87, a big bust I remember very well when taking a huge pay cut thanks to Carl Icahn, the DOW dropped about 31%. This time it is off about 46%, that's a bench mark going all the way back to 1932-33.

These times are unprecedented since the Great Depression. Notice the media has not mentioned the big D word, so far they hardly refer to what's going on as a Recession. It's all part of government spin to try to keep a lid on things and no news reporting agency wants to make things worse than they are by reporting the facts. So much of this is psychological. Their livelihood is directly tied to it by advertising revenue.

The unfortunate historical reality of severe economic down turns is they eventually get resolved with a major war. Both WWI and II were preceded by difficult economic periods. The flash point, in my view is Pakistan. If Muslim extremists get control of the country and the nukes, watch out.

So how does all this relate to our passion? As has been stated, building and flying an airplane is a powerful elixir in the midst of much uncertainty and confusion. I walk to our hangar every day to work on getting the Lycoming up and running. I've spent a ton of money switching engines from Subby and that coupled with the huge market decline has really knocked our 401k down. But what the heck, you only go around one time. I'd much rather have the airplane than money and if need be down the road, my wife should be able to recover some of it.

The flight plan is to fly until the bloody end. Sure beats sitting in a rocker in an old folks home....
 
Only one Efis, the other is engine monitor only...
I want the extra screen space due to the fact that I want EFIS, EMS and HSI on the panel at the same time and it cost ~$1200 to get it but even with that, this is still a very cost effective solution.

My IFR capability will only be used to stay current, get on top of thin layers, and shoot the occasional approach to circling minimums. If it takes hours of hard clag above the freezing level or approaches to 200ft, I ain't going.

Another reason my panel plan looks like it does is to get the most value out of the plan. For instance, the smaller Dynon EMS works just fine and would give me what I want (EFIS, EMS, HSI on the panel at the same time) but for $200 more you get a large screen. Which is the better value?

There is also the fact that I am a tech geek and love avionics, navigation, AP's, GPS's and their integration to the systems, etc. To be sitting in a rats nest of wires for days making connections and being able to turn it all on and see it play together will be the peak of my build! Part of the challenge for me is to integrate all of this stuff and then get out there on a CAVU day and make it all work. If I can't have some of these gadgets in the plane, I would question my reasoning for building it. After all that is what I love most about flying and instrument work, getting out there and doing it even if it is not in actual IMC conditions.

Also, some of this panel may come in stages as all of it is definitely not needed for phase I :D

I to am an electrical geek at sorts, I loved putting all the wiring in. I left a big section above my radio for extra's. I can put the ems and the efis on the same screen, and if I wanted to see all, just push a button. I guess it's what we want to be looking at all the time, me, I'd just rather turn the Efis all the way off if it took to much of my attention. I noticed that you have the Tru trak plus the Dynon AP. Again double duty. Ya I know, you like gadgets. Hope you get it figured out. Hope you don't need the complete panel to get it flying. At present, I talked the wife into letting me have another final 1000 dollars to finish the project. Seems I have said that 3 months in a row now, hehe. I just bought the roll servo for the right wing, now I need to give another plee for the pitch servo. I'm sure I'll get it, but it sure is a game right now. As far as the ap74, I can put that in after the airplane flies, after all I have a tip up, real easy.
 
Im nuts... I can't afford to build a plane... honestly. Im just hard headed and figure I'm going to find a way to make it work. Im probably on the lower spectrum of the income scale compared to others on this site... but I enjoy pretending that I can afford all this! :D
 
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I to am an electrical geek at sorts, I loved putting all the wiring in. I left a big section above my radio for extra's. I can put the ems and the efis on the same screen, and if I wanted to see all, just push a button. I guess it's what we want to be looking at all the time, me, I'd just rather turn the Efis all the way off if it took to much of my attention. I noticed that you have the Tru trak plus the Dynon AP. Again double duty.

To me the extra screen is there just for the fact that with the Dynon, you can't have the EFIS, EMS and HSI on the same screen at the same time.

The TT ADI is there just for an independent attitude indication in case the Dynon takes a dump when I am in a thin layer. Thin layers get thick really quick if your EFIS takes a dump while your navigating thru them:eek:. Again, this might come well after phase one is over.

Anyway, I am sorry I am leading my own thread into another direction so I will move my panel planning thoughts and comments back over into that thread...
 
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I drive a 17 year old car I bought used that has never been in the shop, I do all the repairs on it. Been paid for for 12 years. Don't spend much money on anything else but the airplane (OK, except for building and flying balloons, but that is another affliction). Wife doesn't work due to to becoming disabled a couple of years ago. Have a secure job (I hope).

I'm with Stwezey: Get a Partner - everything gets cut in half!

Annual FIXED Expenses when flying:
Hangar: $3-4K
Insurance $1.5K
Charts: $400
Annual: $0 :D
Database Upgrades / Subscriptions: $500-1000?

This works out to ~$500/month! Or, $250/mo with a partner!

It is definitely a challenge finding someone local you are compatible with - especially if you are going to build together, but maybe think some more about that - the $thousands$ of $reasons$ to get a $partner$ are pretty $compelling$!!!

Let me ask you this - would you need to make *ANY* compromises if you were only paying for half of everything?? You could probably afford to put whatever you wanted in that plane, and then some. You would be making other compromises, of course - the both of you would need to agree on all of the decisions, which involves plenty of compromise, just a different kind. And hey, partners are not for everybody!
 
Typically in an economic downturn, used aircraft prices drop off a cliff. Uncertainties that so many folks have mentioned keep people from buying expensive toys. That could be good news if you have reliable income and are looking for a used engine or maybe used avionics.

I hesitate to predict the future until it has actually happened, but most recessions last a little under a year. There have been exceptions and this certainly could be an exception, but many who do predict the future are saying this will be a severe, but short one. We'll see. BUT, unless this becomes a very long recession, values will be back up to where they were in a couple years (Oops! There I go predicting!), by the time many of us finish our planes.
 
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Fabulous topic

My 2pence worth.

Living in the UK, I like many other Van's clients are being squeezed by the current crunch/currency situation. I've worked for both British Airways and TWA and am now retired. My project is a wonderful journey. I've witnessed along the years substantial corporate down turns, fuel spikes et al but I've never seen the likes of this. Despite everything, things will bounce back, the question is how long will it take, and is a dream/RV really that important or just desirable?

My concern it not so much about me nor my friends building/flying, but actually, dare I say this....."The mother ship". We as users/consumers can duck and dive, perhaps cut back on extras and delay build completions etc. but how will "The mother ship" cope if we do those things? They need us to buy just as we need them to sell to us. For us overseas builders/flyers, many are already cutting back due to costs etc. You guys in the states are too, and just to pretend that the dream is all that matters is almost reckless at this moment in time too.

We need 'TMS' to survive, we have all invested too much time and money. 'TMS' must begin to consider innovative solutions to help us, help them, help us!

For instance, use their 'weight' to screw down third party shipping costs, this will satisfy many customers and keep the flow going instead of like many in this thread have said 'postpone' high dollar build orders. Perhaps they can also promote consolidatation of orders. These are easily managed by IT. low cost and hugely benificial to many of us. A friend of my was quoted $1500 dollars just to ship a finish kit recently, it was $700 last May.

I'm proud that 'TMS's founder is noted for his frugality, we have all benefited from this but we need to keep going and they need to recognise that some of the solutions are in their hands too!

As for me, for the moment I've binned my 'glass cockpit and have started to buy 'used' steam gauges until things improve. Polish instead of painting, and seriously thinking of buying a second user engine instead of my dream XP360.

I'm off to the 'bunker' now and won't be out until this grenade has detonated!
 
It's definately interesting times.

My plan all along has been to buy an engine at the end of the year and be back to broke. With the uncertainty in the economy and my building addiction I'm now thinking I'd be better off buying things as needed to stay busy without going broke.

For the price of the engine / prop I can finish the plane firewall aft. Panel, wiring, antennas, fiberglass, etc. Although buying the engine would get me over a big hurdle, I don't think it would keep the project moving as I wouldn't be able to afford anything else without debt. Plus if the economy gets real bad and I have to back burner the project, I won't have an overpriced engine sitting there for years doing nothing.

I guess the downside is avionics getting outdated, but that's gonna happen no matter when you buy them.

These are my thoughts today, who knows what I'll really do. I have no intention on stopping though.
 
more $.02

Build a day vfr airplane - fly soon - upgrade to ifr panel later when better economic times arrive - paint sometime after that.
A standard kit, new engine, new steam gage, new Garmins, no paint basic RV7-8-9 should come in less than $55K.
You can save more with used equipment. But you know all that anyway. You could even be the first builder to sell their tools to help offset the upgrade costs.

Steve
 
Very valid discussion for me as well. While the wife and I have pretty reliable government jobs... nothing is for sure in this world.

I was set to order an RV-12 kit this summer pending a test flight. However, our surprise blessing of not one but TWO babies altered that slightly. Well... two of everything is more expensive. That'll be two college funds... :eek:

Seriously... I have been truly blessed with a great wife, great kids (previous)... and now two additional babies. I wouldn't trade any of it for an airplane!! :)

So... while the CFO was fully on board with the plan... in our financial conservative ways... we jointly agreed to put that on hold - probably until after January. I am hoping by then that either a) the FAA issues a final determination on E-AB/51% that allows the RV-12 to be built "our" way or b) Van's sees the light and provides ELSA support for a BASIC VFR panel that will shave thousands off the cost to build. That and the falling cost of the Rotax (and the Jabiru, btw) will make it easier to start/complete. Regardless, I'll get a tail kit for something and get started!! :D


And to Brantel - I agree with a lot of the comments here. First... don't give up... keep plugging away at what you can afford. But don't put everything at risk to do so. And secondly... I strongly agree with Steve... if it means getting air under your wings... do the cheapest Day/VFR panel you can for now like I plan on doing. We can add all the wiz-bang glass stuff when the economy comes around in a couple years (I hope!) ;)

DJ
 
Although things right now are just fine for me, I'm still glad I'm holding off on some things. Bad part, I still have about 80,000 into my bird. I'm boasting that I have under 8000 in the panel, but I guess that can be concidered high. What I spent most of my money on was the engine and prop, which was the most important to me because I want performance. I ended up with a D180 because of the cost of regular guages. Although I wanted at least the ASI on the round. I just can't pass on the quick look and decifer. I also couldn't go with an unpainted bird, so that's getting done as I write. Did I mention I hate painting. Oh did I mention I hate fiberglass.

Anyway, I also changed out all the brakes for Grove, and I'm glad I did, need to be able to stop the bird.

What I'm getting at is I did have a choice to upgrade, but didn't have to. I think the engine would stay at an 0360 with hartzell no matter what. I love power. Oh and I redid my house to get the money for the engine and prop. Everything else was cash. One last thing, the money I did put in my 401 was a total loss, I don't think I'll ever do that type of thing again. There are other things to invest in that will give a safer return without shoving something up your butt when things go bad. Not only that, the stock market is nothing but gambling, and I don't believe in that stuff. So why go for the stock market, I'm not any more.
 
Great discussion. I've been thinking a lot about this myself, so it's good to hear other points of view.

When I started this project I did so with a specific financial plan in mind. We moved then had our first child and I subequently had to come up with a new plan, which this economy has now shot to bits. Like everyone else I've watched as my asset, assets I had earmarked for the RV, have declined 30-50% in value. Sigh.

I find comfort in the fact that while my wife would really like to park in the garage again, the RV has no real deadline. While it is important to me that I finish it, there are more important things in life. It will be done when it's done, which will most likely be once this economy has stabilized somewhat.

Until then I think I'll follow Brian's (hydoguy2) lead...

Here's my plan to weather the storm(subject to change). Keep building at a slower pace. Then once I'm out of parts, I'll figure what to do at that point.
 
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The Time

This is the time! Cut back on un-necessary expenses in life general. Build the plane as planned. Invest in the low we have going on now and you will be fine! :D
 
My advice

is to not do the airplane with debt. As much as we love our airplanes, and as much as they keep us sane, DEBT (otherwise known as leverage) got the world into this mess, and is the root of the worldwide economic problem. Our airplanes are doodads, or toys and as much as we love them, they are not job one!

I'm almost done with my RV7A, and debt is close to zero. It would be foolish to slow down now given the increased value of a flying RV vs. an uncompleted project. For those not so far along and without the EXTRA funds, spend your time sanding fiberglass and polishing aluminum.

AT THE SAME TIME, we need to keep supporting, to the best of our ability, the Mother Ship, GRT, Dynon, TruTrak, etc. because they are the future of experimental aviation. Maybe an extra JOB is in order. xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
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I'm glad I started five years ago

I started building my RV-7 nearly five years ago at age 45 and am almost done. I'm glad I started then when the economy was good -- although you would have never known it from the media. Also, the money I have put into the RV still holds its value, unlike say stocks or real estate. And I feel good about pumping money into the economy buying stuff from the RV-related businesses: Vans, Cleaveland, Avery, Dynon, Spruce, Stein, etc.

That said, I don't think I would start an RV-7 now, given the current economic mess --the worst I've seen it in my adult life. I think this country (the USA) has crossed a threshold. It's never going to get better -- just a long decline to who knows where. Now is not the time to go into debt. I'm thankful that I had the opportunity to build a dream plane like the RV-7 with all new stuff. I intend to burn as much Avgas as I possibly can until the government makes flying too expensive, or just bans private flying altogether. It's a shame future generations won't have the same opportunity I have had.

If I were starting now, I'd build a much simpler, cheaper plane. Of course, it wouldn't be as nice as an RV. If I was halfway through an RV project, I'd finish it, but without all the bells and whistles: used instruments and VFR avionics, used engine, wood prop, etc. I would definitely build something though; it has been a great experience.

My two cents...
 
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Another side of the building coin. I'm starting to wonder how many of the RV-related businesses are still going to be in business by the time I'm flying. As with any recession, things shake out and the strong survive. Part of my guessing right now is figuring out which companies those are going to be so that I don't install stuff in my panel that's going to be orphaned by the time I need it.
 
sell for cents on the dollar?

If you're anywhere close to finishing, keep in in mind that you'll sell for cents on the dollar compared to what a flying RV is worth, all other things being equal.
 
Let's just all commit suicide now! Doom and gloom! Build your RV now! The economy will get better! If you can't afford it find one or two other people to build it with you!
 
Plane nuts

Brian,
Much like marriage building a plane will set you up for a series of problems and challenges that you would not have if you didn't build it in the first place.
For better or worse you should stick with it and hold out for the rewards and joys of owning and flying your creation.
Things are not much different for me. As was suggested in earlier posts spending extra time on fiberglass work will stretch out your project at very little cost.
I am working on the interior of the RV-10 Cabin top and I am spending an insane amount of time vs. very little money to get it nicely finished.
 
Banging Rivets Keeps Me Away From the News

I look at it this way...

I already have 99% of my stuff bought so I am just going to use this collection of parts to keep me away from the news and keep my mind on other happy pursuits.

I can't personally change the global economy...

I can't change the outcome of the election...

I can't stop lawmakers from giving away the farm...

All I can do is build on and remember that I have seen it bad before.
 
Advice...if it helps...

About 7 (2001) years ago a building I owned caught fire. The insurance company fought the claim (we eventually won) even though there was no cause to do so. One month later (February) it was hit by an earthquake . That caused about 10K in damage that most people (myself included) are not insured for.

Then, to top it off...the dot com implosion was full swing and I lost my job as a network engineer trainer. Fire, earthquake...and loss of job.

It was the TOUGHEST time I have ever been through. We managed to make it through that..but we learned a lot from it. It was kind of our own personal version of the great depression, and thankfully I was 31, still fairly young.

Mainly we downsized..downsized...downsized. The house, the car, everything.

Absolute true story here... we lived in an area called Fieldstons Farms at the time in Franklin, TN. When we had first bought our home there we were astounded at the homes we were passing on. We saw HUGE homes for 750K for example, that we about choked over the prices. No way in heck we could justify that kind of money. We asked our banker how the **** people could afford them and she responded that many of them were dual working couples, they literally had no furniture, or little, and if either one of them lost their jobs they would likely lose the home. We found further evidence of that when we were forced to downsize...When we decided to move to a very small town called Lewisburg, one of the wives on my sons baseball team confided in my wife at how jealous she was of our new mortgage (85K), and what the house payment was. She was married to a doctor, and they had a very nice home. But EVERYTHING they had was on credit...it was so bad she was charging her groceries on the credit card (I kid you not!) because they could not keep up with his past student loans, etc. but they wanted, like MANY people in that area, to look and keep up with the Jones'...

My last vehicle I had was an Toyota Echo. It had 105K miles on it before it was totaled by a rear end collision. My replacement was a Toyota Yaris with the insurance money. One of the least expensive, most fuel efficient cars on the market. When the gas crunch hit..yes it was still expensive for fuel...but at 34 to 36 MPG, I didn't feel it much at all.

And yes, being a little brash, I didn't feel to sorry for those driving the hummers and SUVs. But..they had to experience the same pain likely before they would change..so not saying I knew better, just that I already had experienced the pain ;-)

At my last job, I was heckled constantly about the echo. I am in sales, and the company I worked for was based out of California. I love California...but there certainly is that "air" about some Californians when it comes to money and displaying it. My counterparts all drove BMWs, Mercedes, or what have you. They couldn't understand why I wasn't in a shiny new car. I just want to get from point a, to point b, safely. I haven't talked to them in a year or so..but my guess is they are wishing they didn't have a big car and house payment about right now as software sales are way off, and along with that, commission checks. I really...really like my echo (well now Yaris).

We live in a fairly modest home now. The bank claims I can afford a home triple the value, but I don't want my money going into a mortgage. In my case, I usually work in a cube (now work at home), travel due to my job so sit in small seats for hours, get to a tiny hotel, and then come home for the weekend to really spend most of my time trying to get away from the home, or sleeping.. not sure why I would need a 3500 sq foot home to do that. In fact...as soon as my children are gone.. we are certainly downsizing again to a 2 bedroom or smaller. I know this isn't for everyone, but it works quite well for us. In fact, for the last two years prior to moving back to Florida, we lived in a one bedroom home on the same property where I have the building I mentioned, while we were remodeling the buildings we own.
My kids didn't complain...heck maybe some of you remember the funnest times as kids, at least for me, was camping with my dad.. it was never thinking about the home we lived in (ours were pretty basic).

There was a study that in the 1950s it was the "happiest" time in American history. The average home was something like 950 sq. at that time (going from memory, but I believe that is correct(. Now people have 950 sq foot garages and they are still not happy.

Guess I am rambling some...but... as far as the advice... build the airplane. Provided you have the money to do it. If you don't..don't overextend yourself. Buy as you go..use ebay of this forum to find parts on the cheap. But if you cannot...then IGNORE the advice of all these people saying we need to buy ourselves out of this crunch. What we need to do is live within our means...then we can afford to buy what we truly need.. less stress..more fulfilling.
 


These times are unprecedented since the Great Depression. Notice the media has not mentioned the big D word, so far they hardly refer to what's going on as a Recession. It's all part of government spin to try to keep a lid on things and no news reporting agency wants to make things worse than they are by reporting the facts. So much of this is psychological. Their livelihood is directly tied to it by advertising revenue.


What are you watching? I hear the "big D" brought up every day on Fox News, CNN and CNBC.:(
 
$30K spent over the last 3 years in airplane parts and tools scattered about my house = roughly $30K today

$30K in stocks 2 months ago = $15K today. Who knew these stupid airplane parts would turn out to be an investment.

I know the airplane money would have been lost in the market because I emptied out about 2/3 of my brokerage account to buy them.

As far as my current finacial situation: Not good. Layed-off twice in the last year and a half. I had a temp. job (was supposed to be perm.) for about 7 months this year but since that lay-off 3 months ago I have found it real hard to muster up any ambition to work on the RV. I guess I'm just feeling a little down.

Over the last 3 months I have driven about 20 rivets, drilled rivet holes and lightening holes in my canopy slide and slide spacer, chem-filmed 5 parts, and touched up some paint. Pretty sad but at least I haven't thrown in the towel.

To the poster who recommended getting a 2nd job: I'd be happy to find a 1st.
Then maybe I could call my donating of plasma for ~$250/month my 2nd.

I hope the econ. doesn't get worse here in MI (or anywheres else), we have been in a recession for the last 5 or so.
 
Some people think we are going to see deflation from bank de-levering for maybe two years then bad inflation or hyper-inflation from the wild, out of control Fed/Treasury bailouts when/if things pick back up. So build while you can still buy parts and your finished airplane might go up with inflation. But with so many Black Swans flying into view, I would not go in debt to build in this economy. You can always find reasons not to build, Goggle peak oil, economic collapse, dirty bombs, etc,etc. If you really want to build, get started. You only go around once and you don't want to end up an old man regretting not doing it while you had the chance.
 
Build On....

Brian:
Remember: It is not the destination that matters....It's the Journey!! Chose not to be part of the bad economy and build your plane.....keep your sanity.....and live your dreams!! If you find yourself without and job and without income, then create a job and make some income. I still believe in America and the free enterprize system. This is the greatest economic system ever devised by man....use it to your advantage and don't let the naysayers and mamby pambys rain on your parade! We, as builders, have more than the nessessary mental tools and tenacity to make things happen... Look at every cloud as an opportunity.

Never give up.....Never Surrender!!
 
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Brian,

You've simply verbalized what a great many of us are feeling and/or thinking. I personally NEED to continue the build as this is my therapy to keep my sanity. This economy will eventually recover and hopefully we will all still be here to realize the fruits of our labor!

Rivet on my friend!
 
Yes we are all nuts, just plane nuts

Due to investment losses and reduced income I reduced my RV7 from IFR with bells and whistles to VFR, fixed pitch. Sending back an SL30 and the GRT HX saved over $10K and not buying a variable pitch prop will save another $6K.
Knowing what I know now I would not encourage anyone to start unless they have the cash and a couple of depression proof incomes. If you have already started, have a substantial amount invested and you can finish without going into debt finishing is a good financial decision.
I regret I am not flying now when fuel is affordable. By the time I am flying peak oil will no longer be a theory and most of us will fly little and the resale value will become none existent.
Like the others I have to say that building is so much fun that even though I know it was a mistake to start the pleasure quotient almost makes up for it.
This bank crisis was a ponzi scheme, which reached its natural end. Taking money from taxpayers and giving it to the people who fraudulently created the scheme, profited from it and are still profiting from is making the crisis worse. It will be years before we see a stable economy. The next twenty years will not look anything like the last 20 years.
 
I refuse to participate in a depression.

My family is making sure that we are prepared, but while I pay attention to the news, I don't believe everything I hear
 
Am I nuts for starting a build now?

Absolutely... I think you've got to be a little off your rocker to take on a project like building an airplane.

As for what you should do... I'd suggest saving up six months expenses and forgetting you got them... then if you got money in the budget, with six monts of expenses set aside spend the extra on a project.\

I'm pretty blessed myself... I too have a wife, kids, etc, but have been setting money aside... I just took a demotion joining the coast guard but started this project, and as long as my health holds out I'm pretty well set to keep getting promotions, fly, and then get a government (.mil) retirement...
 
I don't think the economy has anything to do with buying an engine, avonics, and prop.....

I found it tough to justify buying a complete kit, so over the years bought one kit at a time.

Now that I'm finishing up the finishing kit, I'm finding it just as hard to part with the money, to purchase those last expensive parts.

Maybe seeing huge discounts from Garmin and other venders will bring me and others like me to open their wallets. :eek::eek:
 
Ok,

Some people seem to live on a different planet than I do and seem to be able to work little, spend allot and get away with it. Others work hard and earn allot more than the average Joe and get away with it. Then there are people like me that love airplanes have a life long dream to build and fly their very own, have a family, house payment, bills, and a job that pays average for the classification but that is on very shaky ground due to the poor economy.

Those of you in my tax bracket, how is this economy affecting your build?

Right now I am right up against the point where I must poo or get off the pot and either put this thing on hold or order the rest of the FWF stuff, a prop and my panel items.

I see today that this train wreck continues to happen in slow motion and to be honest, I don't think there is a way to stop it at this point. Are people like me nuts for continuing to sink money into their builds?
I made an ownership club. My club Metal Feathers, Inc. owns 51% of the aircraft. MFI Club then sold four 12.25% shares. They have to be quality people with the financial ability to pony up for each project when due. Two of us built the aircraft in 2 years and three weeks. Help form the other share holders was not part of the deal. We have been flying the test regiment for about a month now. If one of the share holders comes out to the hangar and wants to help we would assign them a simple project and let them help. You have to be patient and understand it may not be up to your standard then when they are gone you just fix it. We have a great bunch of guys it has been a great experience. One of the guys is an electronic wizard and has been a great help with the avionics. We schedule the aircraft on line and use www.aircrftclubs.com to schedule the aircraft all have equal access for a monthly fee.
 
Let me get this straight, you own 51 and the club owns 49 or ? 4 ea @ 12.25 = 49 so this confused me. How many total owners are there?

I made an ownership club. My club Metal Feathers, Inc. owns 51% of the aircraft. MFI Club then sold four 12.25% shares. They have to be quality people with the financial ability to pony up for each project when due. Two of us built the aircraft in 2 years and three weeks. Help form the other share holders was not part of the deal. We have been flying the test regiment for about a month now. If one of the share holders comes out to the hangar and wants to help we would assign them a simple project and let them help. You have to be patient and understand it may not be up to your standard then when they are gone you just fix it. We have a great bunch of guys it has been a great experience. One of the guys is an electronic wizard and has been a great help with the avionics. We schedule the aircraft on line and use www.aircrftclubs.com to schedule the aircraft all have equal access for a monthly fee.
 
Avionics, engine, etc.

If you are willing to by used, then you can take advantage of this...or watch for projects that are parting out. I have seen panels with 60K worth of new avionics going for 50% of today's retail. I picked up some high end gear for 13 cents on the dollar recently... there are lot's of deals it seems.


I don't think the economy has anything to do with buying an engine, avonics, and prop.....

I found it tough to justify buying a complete kit, so over the years bought one kit at a time.

Now that I'm finishing up the finishing kit, I'm finding it just as hard to part with the money, to purchase those last expensive parts.

Maybe seeing huge discounts from Garmin and other venders will bring me and others like me to open their wallets. :eek::eek:
 
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