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RV-10 Windshield/ Window Bonding

R

rv6ejguy

Well Known Member
I've read and searched as many posts on bonding canopies, windows and windshields as I can find here on VAF and on the net. Lots of info.

I'm about ready to start the final agony with windows and doors.

How many -10 builders used Weld-On 10 to bond the transparencies on and how have they held up in service so far? Cracks? Any tips on using the stuff?

How many used alternate products such as Sikaflex 295? How has that turned out in service? Tips?

Would you do the same thing again? What did you like least about the system you used? What kind of working times do you have with these products? How did you clamp or hold windows in position while curing?:confused:
 
I am planning on using epoxy for my windows.

My buddy did that on his 10, been in service for a year now, with no problems.
 
Pretty sure it was West system. And thickened with flox, and cabosil, IIRC.

I will check and get back to you with a definite answer.
 
Window bonding

This subject has been hammered to death on the Matroinics RV-10 list. Suggest you check over there as well.

cheers,
Ron
-10 almost done.
 
rmcgann said:
This subject has been hammered to death on the Matroinics RV-10 list. Suggest you check over there as well.

cheers,
Ron
-10 almost done.
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Matroinics????

What is that????:D

You mean there is another RV site, besides VAF??
 
I used the Hysol EA9360. It's what Lancair recommends for bonding their windows, and it's data sheet does recommend it for plexi. It has a pot life of about an hour; I was able to do 2 windows at a time without any issues or having to rush. It's also thicker than the Weld-On, especially if you add a little flox to it, so it's not nearly as messy. Supposed to have excellent bond strength, although my airplane isn't flying yet so I can't report on any issues with cracking, etc.

The reason I went with the Hysol is because it took longer to get to the windows than I thought, so my Weld-On expired and no way was I going to use expired stuff and have it not stick. Plus I started hearing about what a mess the Weld-On was and that there were issues with cracking so I went with the Hysol based on a recommendation from the Matronics list. The only thing to be careful of is the Hysol is bright blue, so you have to be careful where you get it unless you plan to paint over it.

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
 
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Weld On 10

I used the weld on 10 and then used the west systems epoxy to fill the outside and make the slope on the front. Once that Weld On cures it is rock solid. It wasn't very difficult to do.
 
Mike S said:
Pretty sure it was West system. And thickened with flox, and cabosil, IIRC.

I will check and get back to you with a definite answer.
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O.K., here is the details

Window was installed with above mentioned material. Aluminum clips were fabricated that held the plexi in place, clecoed to the top around the window opening. Fiber washers used to space out the plexi from the window joggle until surfaces were even.

After epoxy set, remove clips, remove any extra dried epoxy, fill the gap between the plexi and the top with a mixture of epoxy and cabosil, working it into the gap, and when that sets up, scuff top and plexi with sandpaper, lay one layer of 9 oz FG cloth over the (now filled) gap.

Obviously, the cloth only covers the plexi as much as the lap joint in the top----so as to not obscure the view through the window.

Feather edge sand the cloth edges, and finish.

Hope this helps.
 
Cracks?

Ok, how many -10 owners have cracks or crazing in the plexi with this solid mounting system? I've heard rumors this is somewhat widespread.

I did some rough calcs and they say about .038 difference in length between a 20 inch long window and the fiberglass cabin top at 100F. That stress has to go somewhere. Gives me a bad feeling.
 
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Cracks around RV-10 windows

I talked to a very experienced RV painter about this. He recommended using a layer of fiberglass around the side windows because RV-10's he's painted that only have filler have begun cracking after a while. Those with a layer of glass have lasted.
 
rv6ejguy said:
Ok, how many -10 owners have cracks or crazing in the plexi with this solid mounting system? I've heard rumors this is somewhat widespread.

I did some rough calcs and they say about .038 difference in length between a 20 inch long window and the fiberglass cabin top at 100F. That stress has to go somewhere. Gives me a bad feeling.
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Ross, so far Steves plane has been done for one year, with no problems at this time.

But, our annual temperature swing is probably a bit less than yours. For sure, on the low end.

I am just about to install the windows in my plane, I plan on using epoxy as mentioned above.

How goes the engine work on yours???
 
Installing side windows from inside?

Has anyone cut out the joggle and glassed in a new one to allow the windows to be installed from the inside? Been thinking it would be a better method and allow a non-permanent install in case of scratches or cracks maybe using sealant and some type of screwed in clamps.
 
Cracking

I just looked at an RV-10 for sale with 50 hours on it and only a few years old. It had significant cracking around the windows on the doors.
It really drew my attention away from the rest of the aircraft. I also noted the doors themselves appeared that they did not have the right tolerances for opening and closing as the seals were ripped, and the latches didn't work.

I'm curious as to any initial thoughts...is it:
a. poor workmanship
b. indicative of the RV 10
c. ?

Vern said:
I talked to a very experienced RV painter about this. He recommended using a layer of fiberglass around the side windows because RV-10's he's painted that only have filler have begun cracking after a while. Those with a layer of glass have lasted.
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Windows and weld on

I used the weld on and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...but I have not done the windshield yet.
 
bgrandorff said:
I just looked at an RV-10 for sale with 50 hours on it and only a few years old. It had significant cracking around the windows on the doors.
It really drew my attention away from the rest of the aircraft. I also noted the doors themselves appeared that they did not have the right tolerances for opening and closing as the seals were ripped, and the latches didn't work.

I'm curious as to any initial thoughts...is it:
a. poor workmanship
b. indicative of the RV 10
c. ?
Click to expand...

Bonding Plexi into fiberglass with quite different coefficients of expansion- well something has to give eventually. I'd venture that most 2-3 year old RV10s which have gone through a few dozen heat cycles in the sun will show some cracks around the joints to some degree. Maybe some sort of sliding capture to allow for differential expansion would work better.

I know the Glastar guys use GE silicone to bond windows in and leave a bit of space from the structure (filled in with RTV) for growth in the frame. Seems to work but you can't paint it. Does come in white though so with a white paint job, you can make it look nice. I looked at this method.

As for the doors, you have to be skillful, patient and maybe a bit lucky on your first go around with these to get a really good fit all around the door frame. Incredibly time consuming.

I really wish Van's would have done a sliding canopy like a Navion or Tiger uses.
 
Windows finished

Just completed the window installation as per Van's instructions, except
I covered the window gap with one strip of fiberglass.
All this, including the doors, is a lot of work and I just did not want to save it for last.



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IMG_0457.JPG


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RV-10 Windows

Ernest - nice job! I think the weld-on is the best choice and used it too, though I only have the rear windows done. One should have a really good reason to deviate from the plans and I have yet to see a compelling reason to use a different adhesive.

I'll put a thin layer of glass over the joint too. It should prevent some of the small cracks that develop in the joint area due to differential expansion.
 
I used weld on 10

Heres what I found.
1. make certain the window area is well protected from accidental smears
2. clean up the edges between window and cabin while the stuff is still wet. Your thumb nail makes a good scraper.
3. spread a layer of weldon to both parts, cabin and glass. dont just spread it on one piece.
4. get plenty of heavy weights to hold down the windows. I used ziplock bags filled with sand.
5. look closely for any gaps where the windwo may not be held down firm. I had to use clecos at several locations to assure hard contact. tape is just not good enough.
6. use washers to make the window level with the cabin.
7. sand and clean out the flange area of the cabin frame before bonding to be sure the glass does not protrude above the cabin frame.
8. You can see if the bond is good by looking at the clear side of the window you will see any gaps or skips. fill them in.
have fun with your cut off wheel as you carefully cut away the door and window frames, covering yourself with white powder. you gonna look like casper the ghost. And dont worry, the weldon that drys on your skin will finally wear off in about a week :D
 
One more item for your list.

9. Slightly radius the inner corner of the plexi window where it nests into the corner of the joggle in the canopy top. The canopy joggle is molded with a slight radius that can hold the window out a bit.
 
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