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G3X Limitations compared to other options

hom409

Member
Before you fork out the money on 2 x G3X touch display, you may want to know the IFR limitations the system has and what better options currently there is. I wish I knew this before my full upgrade. I absolutely love my panel but frustrated with the lack of interoperability with its own Garmin sister equipment.

I wish the G3X could change flight plans on the Navigators. The IPad with ForeFlight is able to add SID, preferred routing STARS, approaches and modify active flight plans. The G3X has less capability in that sense. I need to set the unit on Internal GPS and still does not allow for standard procedures or full approaches via the IAF. Once reverting to external GPS, the flight plan is sent over the navigator but the G3X can no longer modify it.

In contrast, I can have an IPad with a 3rd party App and it will continuously allow for adding or modifying a flight plan and send it to the Navigators. A message pops up to accept the new changes. If modifying anything on the navigator, the IPad pops up a message asking if you want to accept the new routing from the navigator.

If an IPad with a 3rd party app can seamlessly work with the 375, why can't the G3X. A competitor portable device currently provides a much reduced workload and better cockpit workflow than my dual G3X touch.

I wish the G3X could integrate better and allow full crossfill to the 375. A similar process could be integrated with messages to ensure the flight plan modification are accepted prior to going into the navigator. Switching the G3X to its internal GPS makes no sense IFR and actually increases your workload. The G3X should at the very least be able to do what ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, Aera 760 can do. All these units are a fraction of the cost of the G3X Touch.

For those thinking of getting a Dual G3X setup with the intent of one screen being used as a MFD to create, modify or activate items on your navigator, it currently does not work. You are better off with a IPad/FF setup as your second screen or perhaps the 760 which is a fraction of the cost of the G3X.

I have sent my comments to Garmin and so far dissapointed with their replied. Absolutely love my panel but sad to see an IPad FF combo being a more powerful IFR tool than my second G3X.

Hom
 
G3X Limitations

I was going all Garmin, but it sounds like there might be chinks in the armor.
Do other vendors interact with IPAD's, etc. better? Not sure why thier newest GPS edition would not work with there flagship EFIS system! More research required before I pull trigger.
 
I was going all Garmin, but it sounds like there might be chinks in the armor.
Do other vendors interact with IPAD's, etc. better? Not sure why thier newest GPS edition would not work with there flagship EFIS system! More research required before I pull trigger.

The panel is absolutely amazing to work with but the fact the G3X can't crossfill to the 375 or any navigator is absolutely enraging. It's frustrating that an IPad does better than a G3X. I use mine quite a bit for IFR and right now would not recommend a second G3X screen as an MFD until they fix the crossfill. For IFR purposes, you have much better options that will interact fluidly with your Navigator. It makes absolutely no sense to revert to the internal GPS as the G3X won't even allow full procedures to be added. A approaches are Vector to Final without first going to an IAF. You also can't add a SID or STAR. All the above are possible with ForeFlight.

Garmin now sell an Aera 760 portable at 25% of the price of a G3X and advertises to be able to fully enter flight plans in your Navigators. Why limit the G3X so much yet give the capability to a portable unit, or even worst, to a competitor (IPad/FF combo).

Panel mount an IPad would be my recommendation until they improve the interoperability.
 
I would assume going to any other display won't help. I have worked with the Dynon and Garmin and they are both great screens. The reason why I kept everything in the Garmin family was for interoperability, but to my surprise, it did not work as one would hope.

At this time, if you are using the new GNX series navigators, your G3X will have limited crossfill capability. The work arounds have limited use in IFR, increases your workload and reduces safety. Your IPad is a far more powerful tool with the 375 or similar unit.

Perhaps someone with a 650/750/375 combo with HDX or GRT or others could chime in
 
Flight Stream does not mean you can modify active flight plans or properly enter a full IFR flight plan through the G3X. For your info, the GNX navigator are built in with Garmin Connext and does not require a Flight Stream card. If you enter simple waypoints in your flight plan then you are gtg but if you plan on inserting a SID, preferred routes, STAR to full procedure approach transition, the G3X won't help.

Additionally, the issue is also once the flight plan has been transferred, the G3X can't modify the active flight plan unless you revert to it's internal GPS. The ForeFlight combo will allow modification and trigger a message when you send the updated flight plan to the navigator.
 
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Before you fork out the money on 2 x G3X touch display, you may want to know the IFR limitations the system has and what better options currently there is. I wish I knew this before my full upgrade. I absolutely love my panel but frustrated with the lack of interoperability with its own Garmin sister equipment.

I wish the G3X could change flight plans on the Navigators. The IPad with ForeFlight is able to add SID, preferred routing STARS, approaches and modify active flight plans. The G3X has less capability in that sense. I need to set the unit on Internal GPS and still does not allow for standard procedures or full approaches via the IAF. Once reverting to external GPS, the flight plan is sent over the navigator but the G3X can no longer modify it.

In contrast, I can have an IPad with a 3rd party App and it will continuously allow for adding or modifying a flight plan and send it to the Navigators. A message pops up to accept the new changes. If modifying anything on the navigator, the IPad pops up a message asking if you want to accept the new routing from the navigator.

If an IPad with a 3rd party app can seamlessly work with the 375, why can't the G3X. A competitor portable device currently provides a much reduced workload and better cockpit workflow than my dual G3X touch.

I wish the G3X could integrate better and allow full crossfill to the 375. A similar process could be integrated with messages to ensure the flight plan modification are accepted prior to going into the navigator. Switching the G3X to its internal GPS makes no sense IFR and actually increases your workload. The G3X should at the very least be able to do what ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, Aera 760 can do. All these units are a fraction of the cost of the G3X Touch.

For those thinking of getting a Dual G3X setup with the intent of one screen being used as a MFD to create, modify or activate items on your navigator, it currently does not work. You are better off with a IPad/FF setup as your second screen or perhaps the 760 which is a fraction of the cost of the G3X.

I have sent my comments to Garmin and so far dissapointed with their replied. Absolutely love my panel but sad to see an IPad FF combo being a more powerful IFR tool than my second G3X.

Hom
There are some tricks to negate some of the worries.....Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbcli...cE6qA-5aVlXfvU&v=yWsPYuC9j_w&feature=youtu.be
 
Yes there are work arounds which are less than effective, increase your workload and decrease safety.

There is no way on the G3X to insert a full flight plan which includes a SID, STAR or full procedure approach. You can absolutely do full flight planning to include all the above on FF, Garmin pilot with a portable but you can't on the G3X. The process also involves you reverting to the internal GPS to make the modifications which again won't be able to include the above due to the IFR database residing in the IFR certified unit, in my case the GNX375. Tried it many times. Called Garmin many times. You can't put standard procedures and any approach will be via vector to final.

You can indeed insert waypoint without any procedure but I have rarely received such clearance IFR in 30 years flying professionally.

The video you sent shows you using ForeFlight to send the flight plan to the G3X which in my case you can send it directly to the GNX375 without ever connecting to the G3X because of the built in Connext. The IPad simply send the updated route or procedure directly to the navigator without ever going through the G3X.

Go ahead and try while flying or try this process without the IPad and you will see the issues. The IPad as I mentioned is a far superior tool than the extras G3X. Remove the IPad from the equation of this video and you will not be able to insert a SID or Star or full procedure approach. With a Flight Stream card or built in Connext, the process in this video is just adding a unnessary step.
 
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Other Options?

I am in the process of self installing a dual G3X/GTN650 IFR system in my RV-7 project, so this discussion has been of interest.

The title of the original post refers to “other options”.

When I was making my avionics choices, there was no vendor’s product that offered the ability to do what the OP is asking. I may be wrong but I think that is still the case.

So for those still in the equipment decision process, what exactly are the other options?

The Garmin documentation I have run across makes it clear that the internal GPS in a G3X display is VFR only, and does not contain an IFR database.

From my perspective of more than 30 years of professional flying in the military, airlines, and general aviation, what is being expressed is a strong personal preference for how a user interacts with the G3X system in the IFR environment, or what some have termed “buttonology” for lack of a better word.

It is a worthwhile and valid personal viewpoint that is important for everyone to consider as they evaluate equipment choices for themselves, especially if they intend to do IFR flying.

But for clarification, in no way does what is being discussed represent an “IFR limitation” as characterized earlier.

The G3X screens can display everything in the IFR environment (SID’s, STARS, full approaches, etc) with an IFR external GTN/GNX or equivalent navigator, and from an iPad/ForeFlight.

Others may have a different (and valid for them) opinion, but mine is that there are no safety issues either in the IFR environment with entering the data on the G3X and GTN/GNX as designed, individual preferences for a different but unavailable method notwithstanding.

That said, adding a second G3X as an MFD, for both IFR and VFR ops offers functionality and advantages beyond what is being discussed, if your budget and desires make that possible.
 
The other options are to panel mount an IPad or the new Aera 760. The Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight allows you to change on the fly your GTN or GNX without ever reverting to the G3X internal GPS, which as you mention is only VFR with no IFR database.

The issue is not that the GTN or GNX are not great units but that the 2nd G3X as an MFD to operate your navigator is less than userv friendly and increases multiple steps to achieve something an IPad does very simply.

The GNX are great little units packed with features but to do an entire flight plan swipping pages gets old if you have a complicated route. This is where the G3X MFD would be ideal. Bigger screen to create, add or modify in your active flight plan.

If the system works for your, awesome. As a single pilot IFR, I find the small GNX less than ideal to use compared to using the FF and shipping my updated route. Ideally this functionality would be available in the G3X without ever reverting to the internal GPS which is VFR only.

If I had the panel space and money, GTN 750 would be at the top of my list. People should just understand the limitation of the G3X with regards to interaction with the navigator. As a PFD, there is very little that touches is simple operation, I love it but as a MFD, it could be better.
 
Adding another thought to the mix: consider the origins of the G3X touch. It was designed for the experimental market, supporting both VFR and IFR operation (as primary instruments replacement, not as the primary source of IFR approach capability). Its primary purpose is to integrate the functionality of primary flight instruments with GPS navigation and moving map functionality. (not to mention engine monitor functionality) Its competition was primarily Dynon, AFS and other experimental PFD/MFD which have zero IFR approach capability but have similar capabilities for enroute navigation and primary instrument replacement, engine monitoring, moving maps etc.

On the other hand consider IFR navigators which were originally designed (GNS430/530 in mind as the prototypical GPS IFR navigator) for the CERTIFIED market and adaptable for IFR approaches in experimental space. They are REQUIRED to meet all regulatory standards for certification and are designed as such. Very different markets, very different requirements, etc. One attribute of such systems is very limited user configurability features to eliminate the risk of user-induced failures (at least in part to comply with regulations) and thereby capable and safe to conduct legal IFR approaches.

It is simply not reasonable to expect the G3X system, at much lower prices and with very different capabilities (replacement of primary instruments etc). to ALSO have the full feature set of an IFR navigator while remaining highly user-configurable and at an attractive price for the experimental market. And I'd posit that it's likely impossible from a regulatory / compliance viewpoint for this to happen.
 
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I have a dual screen G3X Touch along with a GTN 650 that I use regularly for IMC flight.

I don't think I have used the internal GPS on my G3X Touch in years. I will either enter my flight plan on my iPad (Garmin Pilot this year) or into the 650.

Any flight plan amendments in flight get put directly into the 650. Very quick and easy. Yes it's a smaller screen, but entering flight plans is about the only thing I use it to do. Aside from that it could be a headless unit as far as I'm concerned.

-Dan
 
Easy solution - buy a FlightStream unit for your navigator - problem solved.

This is incorrect or at least the last time I investigated this subject it was. The G3X Touch system does not use the Flightstream as it has built in ability to communicate with the IFR Navigators and can serve as the gateway for portables such as Ipads. The Flightstream was created for certified installs where no G3X Touch existed.
 
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I have a dual screen G3X Touch along with a GTN 650 that I use regularly for IMC flight.

I don't think I have used the internal GPS on my G3X Touch in years. I will either enter my flight plan on my iPad (Garmin Pilot this year) or into the 650.

Any flight plan amendments in flight get put directly into the 650. Very quick and easy. Yes it's a smaller screen, but entering flight plans is about the only thing I use it to do. Aside from that it could be a headless unit as far as I'm concerned.

-Dan

I'm in the same camp. I use my iPad and Foreflight for flight planning and initial flight plan upload. I have never used the internal GPS. All changes are made directly into the 625. Very simple as you say. That is where the approach procedures need to be selected anyway. I often am IMC and find I use the iPad less and less. The G3xT and 625 gives more than adequate information and ease of input.
 
The only times I've used the G3X internal flight plan in four or five years was when I wanted to graphically enter a user waypoint. IIRC, the procedure was to switch the G3X to internal nav (it already had the GTN flight plan there), edit the flight plan, export it to the GTN, tell the GTN to accept, and swap the G3X flight plan back to external. Yes, a bit clunky, and I could have done it all on the G3X internal flight plan.

I've always loaded flight plans directly into the GTN -- easy enough to do, and I don't like having a loose iPad in the cockpit. Never been assigned a SID or STAR.

I will agree that Garmin does an industry standard, i.e., poor job of explaining the smart and easy ways to use the system. Their documentation explains some ways of doing some things, but...
 
I'm in the same camp. I use my iPad and Foreflight for flight planning and initial flight plan upload. I have never used the internal GPS. All changes are made directly into the 625. Very simple as you say. That is where the approach procedures need to be selected anyway. I often am IMC and find I use the iPad less and less. The G3xT and 625 gives more than adequate information and ease of input.

Same here. ForeFlight used to upload initial flight plan. After takeoff, don’t use ForeFlight again. I never use G3X internal source and always make changes in the GTN625. Really don’t see how loading an approach using GTN is any more difficult than using G3X??? Same number of button pushes, just using a different screen to push those buttons that’s well within my reach.
 
This is incorrect or at least the last time I investigated this subject it was. The G3X Touch system does not use the Flightstream as it has built in ability to communicate with the IFR Navigators and can serve as the gateway for portables such as Ipads. The Flightstream was created for certified installs where no G3X Touch existed.

My comment was to put the FlightStream in the GTN and you can go right from your iPad to the GTN. It works, I’ve done it, many people do it. Once you update the GTN, it will cross fill into the G3X
 
My comment was to put the FlightStream in the GTN and you can go right from your iPad to the GTN. It works, I’ve done it, many people do it. Once you update the GTN, it will cross fill into the G3X

Yep - add FlightStream (at ~$1000) to provide a function that should already be included in these $10K+ boxes.

This is one example of why I avoid Garmin products for everything other than the clunky GTN-650 to get a TSO GPS IFR navigator. I’ll fat finger the flight plan into my GTN-650 before I spend a penny on FlightStream.

Carl
 
One more agreement

Same here. ForeFlight used to upload initial flight plan. After takeoff, don’t use ForeFlight again. I never use G3X internal source and always make changes in the GTN625. Really don’t see how loading an approach using GTN is any more difficult than using G3X??? Same number of button pushes, just using a different screen to push those buttons that’s well within my reach.

Same. With GTN750xi in my case. I have always considered it (as the certified piece) the ultimate bedrock of IFR navigation, and find maintaining/modifying, even entering at times flight plans there most comfortable, and don't really see the point of expecting the ability to do so from the G3XT desirable. The G3XT displaying the mapped flight plan from the GTN is plenty of cross couple operation. As far as a second G3XT screen goes, there is plenty for it to do anyway. Mine mostly provide the EIS function, and PFD backup, if ever needed.
 
Most of you are mentioning the GTN series which have a bigger screen than the GNX375. No one debates having a 750, you would not need to use the G3X, that screen is quite large and beautiful. Most of you mention using the FF or Garmin Pilot to upload your flight plans which I do nearly 100% of the time. My point with the G3X and the much smaller navigators such as the 175, 355 or 375, it would be easier to use the G3X to create or update. 2" screen vs 7" makes it easier. At this time, it's just easier to create a flight plan on FF and ship it to the 375 than create it directly on the Navigator. If money and panel space was not an issue, obviously I would have loved a 750.

The point is the G3X as an MFD to create or. Modify a flight plan for us with smaller units, so to speak, is not a great kit. It is more simple to use the portable and send it directly to your navigator and you never needed to revert to internal GPS
 
G3x replacement

I'm sure when the G4x comes out (maybe by Oshkosh this year?) this magic functionality will be there as part of its upgraded selling points! Go through the G3x wish list to see what other upgrades the G4x will have.
 
My comment was to put the FlightStream in the GTN and you can go right from your iPad to the GTN. It works, I’ve done it, many people do it. Once you update the GTN, it will cross fill into the G3X

But that is not what the OP is wishing he could do. What you are describing is basically taking the G3X out of the loop (other than the backfill from the GTN) and using an Ipad to manage the GTN's flightplan (what the Flightstream is designed to do). The OP wants the same functionality from the G3X Touch as what you are describing and adding a Flightstream does nothing to help him get what he wants.
 
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Yep - add FlightStream (at ~$1000) to provide a function that should already be included in these $10K+ boxes.

This is one example of why I avoid Garmin products for everything other than the clunky GTN-650 to get a TSO GPS IFR navigator. I’ll fat finger the flight plan into my GTN-650 before I spend a penny on FlightStream.

Carl

With the G3X system the flight stream is basically already built in, a separate FS would add nothing to the functionality.

The ease at which you can file an IFR flt plan with FF, load the expected route from FF, and then push that to both the G3X and the GTN is the cat's meow...

I always encourage my panel customers to go with the 650/750 mainly due to the improved UI/larger screen. This is where the 750 really excels.
 
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But that is not what the OP is wishing he could do. What you are describing is basically taking the G3X out of the loop (other than the backfill from the GTN) and using an Ipad to manage the GTN's flightplan (what the Flightstream is designed to do). The OP wants the same functionality from the G3X Touch as what you are describing and adding a Flightstream does nothing to help him get what he wants.

Exactly. If people say you can build a limited flight plan and ship it to your GTN or GNX and finalise by adding of a SID, STAR and full approach, you are right, but does it make sense, no. This btw can only be done on the ground because while flying you are technically switching to the GPS of the G3X which is not a legal IFR one.

The point here is the G3X should be able or it would be very much desired as a user to have the same ease to update and create flights plans just like you do on FF or Garmin Pilot, before or during the flight. For all the folks who think switching to your G3X GPS is ok while flying under IFR, you may want to review the regulations.

The simple fact is that FF and Garmin Pilot do this with ease without ever going out of the IFR unit. A message pops up and you simply accept the new plan. Thinking that you can airborne modify legally your flight plan while currently navigating under the G3X GPS is wrong. Go ask your FSDO or Transport Canada.
 
Same. With GTN750xi in my case. I have always considered it (as the certified piece) the ultimate bedrock of IFR navigation, and find maintaining/modifying, even entering at times flight plans there most comfortable, and don't really see the point of expecting the ability to do so from the G3XT desirable. The G3XT displaying the mapped flight plan from the GTN is plenty of cross couple operation. As far as a second G3XT screen goes, there is plenty for it to do anyway. Mine mostly provide the EIS function, and PFD backup, if ever needed.

If I had the space for a 750, I would not have an issue. I use my second screen as a MFD and also have a G5 to the left of my 10" G3X. The 7" vertical G3X was chosen to be able to accomplish such task as flight plan, bring up the EIS, flight through approach charts, access my second radio which is remote.

I just wish that 750 would fit budget and panel wise but it doesn't. The G3X can be improved with such function, if you don't use the G3X for other than back up display and EIS, that suites your needs, but the kit has a great potential to be more powerful of an IFR tool. That does not mean you will use it, but it would be great for many.
 
Same here except I use Garmin Pilot. I use the GTN 100% for VFR and IFR navigation. That way when the workload is high I’m proficient as I can be. The only thing I wish the G3X would show is the TOD point.

I have also contacted Garmin about the GTN sharing the TOD to the map displays of the G3X touch. Supposedly it's pn the "Wish List" for future software upgrades.........
 
Former airline, been flying IFR 45 years, my dual G3X with Garmin FTN 650 is as good or better than the 787!!!! Mostly depends on user set up and understanding the system, just like any computer. I wouldn't trade it in the clouds for anything!

DAR Gary
 
That does not mean the G3X cannot be improved and bring similar functionality as an IPad and FF for flight plan creation or modifications, which the G3X is limited by comparison. Why does Garmin give access to more functionality on FF and IPad than a G3X when it comes to IFR flight planning before and during flight.

Not arguying the G3X is a sweet PFD, but adding the ability to manage your active flight plan would make it much a more powerful of an MFD.
 
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