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Building RV - Inspections during my build.

vinzer

Well Known Member
Hello friends!

I am located in BC and currently working on my RV10 build. I just started so even my vertical stabilizer is still on clecos.
From what I understand in Canada, while building your own experimental airplane, you have to be always in touch with inspector who will look at each significant step after your build.
Can you please briefly tell me what should be my steps in terms of inspection of my build and at what stages ? Soon I will be riveting my horizontal stab, after that will move on to vertical stab. At what point inspection is required, if required at this point at all ?

Thank you!
Vlad
 
Mdra

Visit md-ra.com. Everything you will need is there. You have to fill a letter of intend prior to start building your amateur-built aircraft.
Good luck with your build.
I am about to start building an RV-7.
 
Call me...

Give me a call tomorrow and I?ll be happy to chat with you what I did when I built my 8.

Call me after 12pm Toronto time.

905 261 66onefive

Cheers,


Don
 
Pre close inspection

After your letter of intent,
You will have to get a pre-determination approval from your MD-RA that your build kit follows the 51% rule. In the case of Vans kits, this is more of a formality than anything else. Your next inspection will be a pre-close inspection. Basically an inspection of your rivets and workmanship prior to putting the last skins on. Some people wait until all the wings and control surfaces are ready before ordering this inspection. I can?t remember exactly but I recall this inspection was north of $200 plus gas money. The next inspection will be your preflight inspection. Of course, you can always order as many inspections as you like but you pay for each one.
 
Unless I misunderstood the rules, I don't think there is a requirement to be in contact with an inspector throughout the build. But you are welcome to call them if you have questions. You can have as many pre-close inspections as you want and finally the pre-flight inspection. But as rv6ehguy said, each inspection will cost you.

I'm leaving each subassembly open for inspection and plan to do the pre-close inspection all at once. I may do two pre-close inspections if I feel it might better to just close up the tail and wings and put them away in storage to free up room to work on the fuselage.

Cheers.
 
You?re right

MDRA requires requests for inspections for pre-closes and then the final inspection.

You can have one pre-close for the entire project and then once you close everything up, you can do the final when the aircraft is ready for flight.

Each pre-close inspection is $540 and the final inspection is $1260.

Don

Fee schedule is here...

http://www.md-ra.com/en/
 
Have others check your work as you build. Don't wait for a MD-RA inspection to get build feedback. It would be prudent to seek out other local builders to act as advisors. They will be a source of endless builder tips & techniques, and helping hands! It is always a good idea to have other eyes looking over your work to keep it (you) on the right track.

Join the local RAA or EAA chapter, enroll in some builder classes & seminars such as EAA Sportair Workshops. There are many skill sets you will have to master to get thru the build process.

Good luck on your project!
 
Wau! THANK YOU to everyone for providing your responses and suggestions! I appreciate your help.

Today I have contacted MD-RA, filled up the letter of intent and emailed it to them. After that tried to call them to make a payment but got voicemail. Hope they will call me back on next business day so I can complete my card payment.

I read about rules and regulations and also confirmed that my RV10 kit is on Transport Canada list of 51% approved kits.


Give me a call tomorrow and I’ll be happy to chat with you what I did when I built my 8.

Call me after 12pm Toronto time.

Don, Thank you! I just found your message. I already got all my info online and hopefully that I understood everything correctly.


Have others check your work as you build. Don't wait for a MD-RA inspection to get build feedback. It would be prudent to seek out other local builders to act as advisors. They will be a source of endless builder tips & techniques, and helping hands! It is always a good idea to have other eyes looking over your work to keep it (you) on the right track.

Join the local RAA or EAA chapter, enroll in some builder classes & seminars such as EAA Sportair Workshops. There are many skill sets you will have to master to get thru the build process.

Good luck on your project!

Ralph, I will definitely do! Good recommendation, Thank you! I know some builders at my airfield and I am planing to get in touch with them.


Friends, can you please explain what "pre-close inspection" means ? For example at this time I am working on tailcone/empennage kit. It consists of few parts which needs to be closed and riveted. For example vertical stabilizer, rudder, horizontal stabilizer, elevator and tailcone.
Am I able to actually assemble these parts and rivet them as per VAN's assembly manual or I should leave vertical stab, rudder, horizontal stab, elevator and tailcone opened somehow?
My understanding that all parts still can be inspected even after riveting for example by use of snake camera (I have one for my other work needs).

If I choose to do single pre-close inspection, that I assume means that I will have to leave lots of parts of airplane not riveted (wings, fuselage, etc) ?
I am just trying to understand how much riveting can be done while pre-close inspection still can be performed.

Will pictures taken during assembly help in anyway for that pre-close inspection ?

Thank you for your help!
 
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My understanding is that the inspector must be able to see every rivet. So in some cases that means leaving things partially open. For instance leaving the rear spar out of the vertical stab. I believe the rudder can be closed in completely because all rivets can be seen through the lightning holes.
I am taking the approach that if in doubt leave it open.
 
My understanding is that the inspector must be able to see every rivet. So in some cases that means leaving things partially open. For instance leaving the rear spar out of the vertical stab. I believe the rudder can be closed in completely because all rivets can be seen through the lightning holes.
I am taking the approach that if in doubt leave it open.

Thank you, you are absolutely right. I spoke with MD-RA about it and they confirmed that the most appropriate way would be to keep some parts partially opened so inspector may access there and check rivets, etc. Especially wings which, as I understood, needs to be checked rivet by rivet.
 
Thank you, you are absolutely right. I spoke with MD-RA about it and they confirmed that the most appropriate way would be to keep some parts partially opened so inspector may access there and check rivets, etc. Especially wings which, as I understood, needs to be checked rivet by rivet.

All the inspections I have had required all parts open for inspection, not just the big components.
 
All the inspections I have had required all parts open for inspection, not just the big components.

All parts - means vertical stabilizer, rudder, elevator etc? :eek:
Hmm, that means that after inspection a lot of riveting will be still required to get all parts completed.
Why do not they (inspectors) use simple snake camera - borescope ? It is so easy and removes so much headache for builder.
 
All parts - means vertical stabilizer, rudder, elevator etc? :eek:
Yes. That's what the regulations say.

Hmm, that means that after inspection a lot of riveting will be still required to get all parts completed.
Correct, but the expectation is that all of that closing up riveting will be inspected in your final inspection.

Why do not they (inspectors) use simple snake camera - borescope ? It is so easy and removes so much headache for builder.
Good question. Maybe because they can't get a rivet gauge on a rivet when using a borescope, or because the narrow field of view does mean you could miss an area and not realize it.
 
The inspectors also get a good look at the rivets that you have done to that stage. If he is pleased with what he sees then one would assume the remainder should be of the same quality , providing the same person does the rivets. Like previously said the remainder van be visually inspected as much as possible on final.
 
The inspectors also get a good look at the rivets that you have done to that stage. If he is pleased with what he sees then one would assume the remainder should be of the same quality , providing the same person does the rivets. Like previously said the remainder van be visually inspected as much as possible on final.

My experience is that the pre-close inspection is a workmanship inspection in which the inspector is looking at proper build quality and judging the builder.
For example, in my final inspection of my Rocket, the inspector walked into my hangar, saw my flying RV-9A and said 'let's just do the paperwork'. He understood that having built an airplane before and several annual inspections later, I probably know how to build airplanes.
 
My experience is that the pre-close inspection is a workmanship inspection in which the inspector is looking at proper build quality and judging the builder.
For example, in my final inspection of my Rocket, the inspector walked into my hangar, saw my flying RV-9A and said 'let's just do the paperwork'. He understood that having built an airplane before and several annual inspections later, I probably know how to build airplanes.

Sorry Vern, I don't care how much experience I have (seventh build just completed) I want to have somebody else inspect my build before I fly. Just finishing up a build right now (not flown yet waiting for C of A papers) . I had two builder friends at separate times do a complete inspection as if they were going to be doing the first flight. They both found different things , nothing that would have caused flight problems but things that could be addressed. I then had my MD-RA inspector do his inspection. That's four people that checked this AC out , hopefully I will have no serious issues when I finally get to fly. I now feel I did my best to be safe.
 
At this moment I am working on my rudder assembly. According to VAN's manual for RV-10 rudder I have to actually close my skins in the middle of my rudder build. After all stiffeners are attached I have to apply some tank sealant and then proceed with skins closure. This is however the problem for me because according to our "special" regulations inspector will need to look in to my rudder. My question to RV builders in Canada is (assume that most of RV models have similar steps in rudder build):

Until what point you assembly your rudder ? Do you skip any steps and still rivet at least one side of the skin to spar ?

I feel that it is silly just to stop assembly of rudder at the middle and wait for 1-2-3 years before I finish wings and fuselage and call out pre-closure inspection.

My plan is to fully assemble and attach spar to one side of the skin while keeping other on clecos. This will be against the VANs manual but should not make much difference as this is just a sequence.
 
At this moment I am working on my rudder assembly. According to VAN's manual for RV-10 rudder I have to actually close my skins in the middle of my rudder build. After all stiffeners are attached I have to apply some tank sealant and then proceed with skins closure. This is however the problem for me because according to our "special" regulations inspector will need to look in to my rudder. My question to RV builders in Canada is (assume that most of RV models have similar steps in rudder build):

Until what point you assembly your rudder ? Do you skip any steps and still rivet at least one side of the skin to spar ?

I feel that it is silly just to stop assembly of rudder at the middle and wait for 1-2-3 years before I finish wings and fuselage and call out pre-closure inspection.

My plan is to fully assemble and attach spar to one side of the skin while keeping other on clecos. This will be against the VANs manual but should not make much difference as this is just a sequence.

Not sure how the 10 differs from the 14 but the 14 can be riveted. The front skin should not be rolled. The inspector can see all rivets through the holes.
 
Not sure how the 10 differs from the 14 but the 14 can be riveted. The front skin should not be rolled. The inspector can see all rivets through the holes.

RV14 rudder and RV10 rudder both share same idea and steps in assembly. I also hope that inspector should be able to just verify all rivet through the holes but I remember there were some other opinions here :confused:
 
RV14 rudder and RV10 rudder both share same idea and steps in assembly. I also hope that inspector should be able to just verify all rivet through the holes but I remember there were some other opinions here :confused:

Have you been assigned an inspector yet? I would reach out and get a clear expectation of what they will be looking for. Mine wants to be able to see every rivet top and bottom.

I will be leaving open whatever is necessary. In some cases nothing and in others it may be a rear spar or more.

I would rather be accused of not completing enough than having to open it up.
 
Just wanted to share in this thread since I began it about a year ago.

Few days ago I have passed my pre-cover inspection for empennage and wings.
First I got inspector assigned by MD-RA and then we scheduled date with him to meet.

Inspector turned out to be extremely knowledgeable and very nice to talk with person. He is also an RV builder and now works on his RV-9. His RV-6 is already built and flying.

After inspecting each and every part of my wings and empennage he found that there are some rivets required to be replaced, some needs to be set little more. In general no issues nor critical mistakes were found in my built.

Now I have to get some things fixed, get snag sheet filled and may proceed with closure of my parts.

Next step after closure will be fuselage :)
 
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