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Heeeeellpppp. What Engine IO360-????

DocBret77

I'm New Here
I have to figure out what engine I'm going to use before I buy the 7A kit. My uncle thinks I need to go buy one now but that isn't in the budget.
I know I want 180 HP stock and want CS prop. Maybe cold air ind.?:confused::confused::cool:
I also don't want to reinvent the wheel....
something that is TO maybe. A rebuild??
 
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Engine

I have to figure out what engine I'm going to use before I buy the 7A kit. My uncle thinks I need to go buy one now but that isn't in the budget.
I know I want 180 HP stock and want CS prop. Maybe cold air ind.?:confused::confused::cool:
I also don't want to reinvent the wheel....
something that is TO maybe. A rebuild??

New from Vans/Lyco, you have a couple options in the 360.
Vertical vs Horizontal induction and constant speed vs fixed pitch prop (crankshaft and governor)
The hollow crank constant speed version has a plug similar to a automotive freeze plug pressed into the forward end. I suggest taking the hollow crank option. You can always run a fixed pitch by leaving the plug in place. Constant Speed prop just requires removing the plug and installing a governor. Typical location is the aft side of the engine. The plumbing oil lines should be preinstalled.
O-360 is the carbureted Vertical Induction engine. The cowl has a snout and air is drawn up vertically into the carb.
The IO-360 is the fuel injected horizontal induction engine. There's no snout on the cowl. Air is drawn from an air filter just inside the port side inlet and down through a "Frankensnorkel" into the forward end of the fuel servo.
The letters after the 360 mean a sorts of stuff. Theres a table in the manual to decifer them.

Edit
Just for grins, I looked at Vans Aircraft. There's more options these days. If you have deep pockets, the 390 is an option as well as dual P-mags. Pretty cool.
 
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Engine

O and IO 360's come in both parallel valve and angle valve versions. 180 hp would be parallel valve.
 
O-360-A1A and fixed pitch prop. Lighter weight and simpler, but it leaves the option open for a constant speed.
 
My opinion for the 7A: Parallel Valve IO-360. From Lycoming's lineup, that's the YIO-360-M1B. It's the lighter engine relative to the angle-valve models (and you won't have a heavy-nose airplane with the M1B that you get with the angle-valves). Plenty of power for the airframe, great engine. You can find them new or used.

If I was set on doing an angle-valve engine, I'd choose the IO-390 EXP 119 every day of the week and twice on Sundays. If you're adding that weight, might as well take some back out in the lighter EXP 119 engine, while getting the max output from the 390.

But in a clean-sheet decision, starting from scratch? Definitely the M1B for me.

And probably a Hartzell aluminum-blade blended airfoil prop on either of the above engines. Best bang for the buck and a great performer.
 
And probably a Hartzell aluminum-blade blended airfoil prop on either of the above engines. Best bang for the buck and a great performer.

Greg,

Not to hi-Jack this thread but why a Hartzell two blade BA prop and not a three blade prop like the MT9. The MT is lighter, offers better climb performance, no rpm limitations and less vibration without a significant (if any) speed loss.
 
... why a Hartzell two blade BA prop and not a three blade prop like the MT9. The MT is lighter, offers better climb performance, no rpm limitations and less vibration without a significant (if any) speed loss.

Personal preference. Maybe I'm just cheap. :) The MT9 sells for $17,700 whereas the Hartzell BA is $10,430 and is essentially bulletproof. I've flown them both, and I just prefer the higher top speeds I've experienced with the Hartzell BA and what I've observed as slightly better overall performance (the Hartzell climbs just fine in my book), all for about $7,200 lower price with the Hartzell prop. Everyone has their preferences, and the great thing about our little experimental aircraft world is we get to make these personal choices! Nothing wrong with choosing the MT.
 
I agree totally with Greg

If you want to make this essentially a stock 7A, go with the YIO-360M1B with the 74” Hartzell blended airfoil prop. You WANT the heavier prop out front. 7As get tail-heavy with little effort (try your first trip to KOSH with the back end loaded…but you’re weighing all that gear of course).

I built KELLI GIRL with the YIO-360M1B, slick mags, and a solid Sensi prop. The two most significant upgrades? The 74” Hartzell BA prop and 2-by-PMags. It totally transformed KELLI GIRL’s climb and cruise performance. Frankly, my 7A joined the other RVs who continually beckoned, saying, “Come on up. The water’s fine!” Build it right, right up front.

Greg, does Van’s still offer builders a one-time engine-prop combo deal? I bought my Vans Sun-n-Fun combo deal back in 2012 during KELLI GIRL’s build.
 
Greg, does Van’s still offer builders a one-time engine-prop combo deal? I bought my Vans Sun-n-Fun combo deal back in 2012 during KELLI GIRL’s build.

Yep. If you order the engine and prop together, there is a $1,000 discount on the bundle (the discount is given on the engine by Lycoming). That's available year-round.
 
Greg's words are iron!

Hartz BA is faster and cheaper, by a lot. But, comes with a weight penalty.
Ian pushed something into my BA prop when the hangar doors came off. Scratched the paint. That's it. If I had an MT or a Hartz CF blades, I'd probably be looking at repairs or replacement ($$$)

Unless you are within driving distance of an MT service center, think about what shipping that three blade is going to cost. Lots of shops can service a Hartzell.

But I agree with Greg. Parallel valve of your choice and a Hartz BA is the value (!) best bang for the buck combo. A Senn FP is no slouch either, considering the huge savings in cost and maintenance. Just a dumb chunk of aluminum.

I will say the MT is smooth and the higher blade frequency (noise) is less fatiguing. Same for the Whirlwind 300.
 
Contrary opinion

Greg's advice is perfect, if you are looking for a new engine and propeller. There are other options to consider. I purchased an O-360-A1A off a flying aircraft, it had about 1100 hours since overhaul (SMOH) and over 5000 hrs total time. Five years later it is still running strong with compressions in the mid to upper 70s. I paid $9500.00 for it. I purchased my CS propeller from Vans.

I saved a significant amount of money over buying brand new. AND Vans is nice enough to still allow me to purchase a new engine should I want to. You get to buy one per kit. So at some future date (when I can afford it) I can still buy that shiny new Lycoming. Or get the one I have completely overhauled and keep flying it.

To be clear you have to be careful buying a used engine. If you are not familiar with what you are getting you need excellent advice from someone very knowledgeable. There is risk going down this road but the reward may be worth it.
 
To be clear you have to be careful buying a used engine. If you are not familiar with what you are getting you need excellent advice from someone very knowledgeable. There is risk going down this road but the reward may be worth it.

Absolutely. A solid used engine and/or prop that's verified to be good-to-go is a great way to build an RV and keep the costs down, especially with engine prices being what they are these days.
 
Thread Drift I know, I’m refurbishing a damaged 7a and had my mind set on the standard IO-360 and Hartzell CS (this kit is eligible for this combo from Vans)…………. However….. Now a trusted overhauled IO-360 L2A has become available, this is a engine standard on a lot of Cessnas, will not accomodate a CSU, and because of the sump used on these engines the throttle body induction is vertical. My question is …. has anyone successfully fitted that engine to a 7a ? Realise I may have to get creative with the fab box extension etc but I’m prepared to do that, as long as the engine will in fact fit. Any available info greatly appreciated
 
I have to figure out what engine I'm going to use before I buy the 7A kit. My uncle thinks I need to go buy one now but that isn't in the budget.
I know I want 180 HP stock and want CS prop. Maybe cold air ind.?:confused::confused::cool:
I also don't want to reinvent the wheel....
something that is TO maybe. A rebuild??

Isn't this getting a little ahead of yourself? You haven't even bought a kit yet, and likely have a few years ahead of you before you have to make any decision here. :) Also probably not a good idea to start jumping around doing stuff because "somebody said I should do X".

Buy the empennage kit, start building, learn as you go, and decide all that stuff way down the road.

Patience, grasshopper...
 
I'm really happy with my TCM IO-370 (PV/9.6CR) with 200+hp.
Love Hartzell but the 370 really needs the 3 blade MT9 which is what I have.

I was also very happy with my previous O-360 with Hartzell BA, not much to complain about their either.

Definately recommend sticking with the PV engine, cheaper and lighter.
 
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Buy the empennage kit, start building, learn as you go, and decide all that stuff way down the road.

Patience, grasshopper...

I agree completely with this. Some people build fast, some build slow, and life gets in the way. It took me 15+ years; you don't want an engine sitting around very long.

My recommendation is go to some of the big airshows, like Airventure, and talk to the engine builders, besides Lycoming, like Aerosport Power, ECI/Titan, Barrett, Superior, etc. They know the airframes and what they can build for you. It is often a free learning experience.
 
Re: Engine choice.

Doc,
The best advice I ever got on this was from the famous Paul Rosales (Rosie) in Southern CA. That is... determine first what your MISSION for the plane is. This cannot be more vital to your decision process.
If you want a cross country ship, then the constant speed prop will be an absolute must. If you are just doing aerobatics all the time, then fixed pitch would be great and simple.
If you're concerned about re-sale later, then CS is definitely a better seller down the road.
Example: My mission was cross country, with as much fuel saving/speed combination as I could get. Result? IO-360 (180)hp Constant Speed running lean of peak on my trips. Sacrifice a few knots of speed for significant fuel savings.
Also, what area of the country will you be flying in? What weather do you expect to deal with a lot? Things like this.
Determine your mission, and you will not regret making the proper decision on this one.
Just my 2 cents. (But it came from Rosie, so it's worth a **** of a lot more)
 
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