Access Panel in front of Canopy...

Is it worth putting in an access panel in front of the canopy between the firewall and the sub panel? I know several people have done it but if you have a tip up with access behind the panel do you really need a separate access panel between the firewall and sub panel? I am not sure it is worth the work and the potential water leakage...

For those of you who do have it would you do it again? what is the best method of creating it?

sub panel access

idleup said:

Is it worth putting in an access panel in front of the canopy between the firewall and the sub panel?
For those of you who do have it would you do it again? what is the best method of creating it?

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Hello,
In our Rv7 we have sliding canopy, and the subpanel access is almost a need for us, I dont know would be necesary for the tip up ones.

Just popping my tipup off gives me more room than an access panel would. If a tipup, you already have the best access.

JHMO

Roberta

Matt,

I have the access panels on my 9a tipper. I think the answer to your question depends on the electronics placement.

I have my AF2500 control unit (read many wire connections) and my Lightspeed PIII control unit mounted on rails high between the subpanel and the firewall. To access these units without the panels would be a real nightmare---and I have had to access to correct two loose wires on the AF twice (110 hrs on plane). If you do not plan on installing anything that you will need to access forward of the subpanel it probably is not necessary. I am happy that I did it and give credit to Dan C. as his web site is where I got the idea.

BTW, you can make a permanent gasket by using proseal to avoid leaks--Dan's site has directions on this also.

Get that tipper in the air!!!

Cheers,

db

I don't recommend it for structural reasons (and I believe that Van agrees), but some have done it and I haven't heard of any problems so far.

Not really needed

After weighing the pros/cons I did not put one in. I also have the AF2500 engine monitor. I mounted it on the right side open area just behind the panel. Relatively easy access. I planned everything to maximize the tip up advantages. The only thing not easily accessible would be the grounding tree. Not an issue.

Do some planning and you won't need them. Don't know how Van's feels but certainly many have put them on.

Just from an aesthetics point of view, I love the clean look of the transition from the front of the plane to the canopy. The access plates would somewhat ruin that.

RV7Guy said:

Do some planning and you won't need them.

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Well said. I have 'em and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but my next airplane will be better laid out...it's 20:20 hindsight in terms of ease of maintenance.

With the slider, I'm planning on them. Structurally, they could be just as strong as the fwd skin without them if done correctly. I considered whether or not to use a home-made thicker skin, but I think the doublers would be sufficent if done like a patch and IAW AC 43.13, with structural CS #8 or #10 screws. Look at all the structual panels on twin cessnas and stuff, I plan on emulating the installation of one of those.

Link to earlier thread

Here's an earlier thread on the subject of the access panels.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=2128&page=1&highlight=access+panels

I installed access panels after trying to decide about it for too long.
I just couldn't stand the idea of not being able to get in there easily.
I'm not an engineer but I believe my installation is plenty strong.

Sure, this skin is structural, but the fact that you can hang the engine without having this top skin on is pretty amazing to me.

I drew it all out in AutoCAD, printed it full scale and just transfer punched the center marks. It still took all day.

If anyone wants the drawings I can email them to you in ACAD or .pdf format.

I used .040 for the doubler that holds the nutplates. And I inserted another narrow doubler of .032 between the nutplate doubler and the forward skin which is also .032. This allowed me to use a thick cover plate (.040) and still have .024 room left for a formed in place pro-seal gasket (Thank's for the idea Dan!). Each cover plate uses (16) #8 screws.


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Mark Burns said:

Thank's for the idea Dan!

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As usual I can't take credit for it! I stole the idea from Tom Emery, who gave me lots of great help & ideas (he also taught the "RV Assembly" workshop which I attended before starting my -7).

Dan, what would you have laid out differently? What do you have under there now and what would change?

dan said:

Well said. I have 'em and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but my next airplane will be better laid out...it's 20:20 hindsight in terms of ease of maintenance.

Click to expand...

another idea

I am happy with what I came up with here. I made a removable tray for the GPS & XM antennas. This tray screws to the top skin so you can simply remove the access panel cover without having the GPS antennas attached. The tray has 3 nutplates each side so you can slide the tray in and attach it pretty easily.

Matt:

As others have said, careful planning may allow you to avoid access panels. I finished my panel installations so that everything is accessable while sitting in the seats. The only reason to crawl under the panel for electrical reasons is to reach the F/W ground block. I have a panel ground block which has all panel mounted items grounded to it with 2-14AWG leads from the panel block to the F/W block.

I managed to get the following in:

single GRT Horizon 1, with AHARS and EIS-4000 between panel and sub panel.
AoA
KMD-150
SL-30
SL-40
Audio panel
GTX-327
T/T ADI
T/T AP
full size A/S and ALT
3 fuse blocks.

On the back (F/W side) of the sub panel:

Power panel for SD-8 alternator contols (relay, crowbar and regulator). This panel is held in by anchor nuts and screws accessible through the panel. I can easily remove the EFIS DU, reach through the opening and remove the panel. I used a service loop long enough to allow me to bring the panel out and work on it in the open.

MAP sensor, this is very light so I attached it with Velcro to an upper frame with sufficient service loop so that I can reach under the panel and remove it to service it in the open.

Panel ground bus: This is also Velcroed to an upper frame with service loops sufficeint to allow it to be serviced in the open.

To sum up: with a bit of planning, I was able to mount everything for a full IFR panel in a manner that allows service access while sitting in the seats. Most all items are between the panel and the sub-panel while those items behind the sub-panel are mounted to allow easy access. No access panels required.

The EFIS DU and EIS-4000 provide easy access to items behind them. They come out with 4 screws (make sure they are attached with anchor nuts and not regular nuts). and provide ample room to work through.

It does help that I used a modular panel from Affordable Panels. I consider this a most valuable and worth while option. It really simplifies access for survice or future modifications.

Oh, it's an RV-7A slider.

Jekyll

I don't know that I'd use fiberglass panels in there....

I think his use of fiberglass panels was to enable the GPS antennas to "see" through.

I realize that, but I kinda doubt that the panels themselves have any structural integrety, which an aluminum panel would if designed properly.

Jekyll said:

Matt:
As others have said, careful planning may allow you to avoid access panels. I finished my panel installations so that everything is accessable while sitting in the seats. The only reason to crawl under the panel for electrical reasons is to reach the F/W ground block. I have a panel ground block which has all panel mounted items grounded to it with 2-14AWG leads from the panel block to the F/W block.
Jekyll

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As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. It's a bit hard to understand exactly what you did, but it sounds intriguing. Do you have any pix of the isntallation that you could post for us.

Captain Avgas said:

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. It's a bit hard to understand exactly what you did, but it sounds intriguing. Do you have any pix of the isntallation that you could post for us.

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Soon. I want to get all my bundles and harnesses neatly tied up first - still working on that. I don't want show my knickers to the world

Jekyll

Jekyll said:

Soon. I want to get all my bundles and harnesses neatly tied up first - still working on that. I don't want show my knickers to the world

Jekyll

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I am at a position where I need to do this now if I am going to do it. Since this is an old thread I would like to ask those who made this modification and posted here, can you give some feedback as to how this modification is holding up? Were there any issues you discovered after the fact? Do you have any issues with water leaking in?

Any input would be appreciated as I need to pull the trigger on doing this asap.

RVbySDI said:

I am at a position where I need to do this now if I am going to do it. Since this is an old thread I would like to ask those who made this modification and posted here, can you give some feedback as to how this modification is holding up? Were there any issues you discovered after the fact? Do you have any issues with water leaking in?

Any input would be appreciated as I need to pull the trigger on doing this asap.

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~2000 hours on mine. No issues with the access panels. I've got plenty of leaks around the front of my canopy, but not at the access panels.

dan said:

~2000 hours on mine. No issues with the access panels. I've got plenty of leaks around the front of my canopy, but not at the access panels.

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Thanks Dan. Given your time flying would you say that it would be good to seal (I am thinking proseal or maybe RTV) all the rivets that attach to the panel ribs? I would think this would help a great deal in keeping water from infiltrating under the top skin. What do you think (question is to Dan and/or anyone)?

RVbySDI said:

Thanks Dan. Given your time flying would you say that it would be good to seal (I am thinking proseal or maybe RTV) all the rivets that attach to the panel ribs? I would think this would help a great deal in keeping water from infiltrating under the top skin. What do you think (question is to Dan and/or anyone)?

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I definitely wouldn't bother. A good rivet joint should be water tight.

The seal is nice to have on the access panels, where you've only got a handful of screws holding the panels down, and there can be some slight "pillowing" between screws. Rivets, though, definitely wouldn't bother.

dan said:

I definitely wouldn't bother. A good rivet joint should be water tight.

The seal is nice to have on the access panels, where you've only got a handful of screws holding the panels down, and there can be some slight "pillowing" between screws. Rivets, though, definitely wouldn't bother.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply. This is very helpful to me as this task is going to happen this weekend.

Access Panel in front of Canopy

Scott Will said:

I am happy with what I came up with here. I made a removable tray for the GPS & XM antennas. This tray screws to the top skin so you can simply remove the access panel cover without having the GPS antennas attached. The tray has 3 nutplates each side so you can slide the tray in and attach it pretty easily.

Regarding GPS and XM antennas, the engine cowl is already fiberglass. Has anyone mounted the antennas ahead of the firewall near the top so they "see" the sky through the engine cowl. This would seem to be easier than cutting holes in the forward fuselage skin and then making a fiberglass cover. I think the RV-12 mounts the antennas ahead of the firewall.

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yup, lots of those

terrye said:

Regarding GPS and XM antennas, the engine cowl is already fiberglass. Has anyone mounted the antennas ahead of the firewall near the top so they "see" the sky through the engine cowl. This would seem to be easier than cutting holes in the forward fuselage skin and then making a fiberglass cover. I think the RV-12 mounts the antennas ahead of the firewall.

Click to expand...

I did that with a simple bracket screwed to the firewall. Works like a charm. Lots of guys have done the same thing.

Mark Burns said:

Here's an earlier thread on the subject of the access panels.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=2128&page=1&highlight=access+panels

I installed access panels after trying to decide about it for too long.
I just couldn't stand the idea of not being able to get in there easily.
I'm not an engineer but I believe my installation is plenty strong.

Sure, this skin is structural, but the fact that you can hang the engine without having this top skin on is pretty amazing to me.

I drew it all out in AutoCAD, printed it full scale and just transfer punched the center marks. It still took all day.

If anyone wants the drawings I can email them to you in ACAD or .pdf format.

I used .040 for the doubler that holds the nutplates. And I inserted another narrow doubler of .032 between the nutplate doubler and the forward skin which is also .032. This allowed me to use a thick cover plate (.040) and still have .024 room left for a formed in place pro-seal gasket (Thank's for the idea Dan!). Each cover plate uses (16) #8 screws.

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Click to expand...

Mark,

Can you email me the AutoCAD and PDF files for these access panels?

Thanks,

Scott Will said:

I copied the idea from Dan C who later changed his to glass. After flying 60+ hours with some G's on the plane, I can attest that it is as good as new. Besides my aluminum trays which bridge the gap should help carry some, if not all, of the load. You can see the trays are held by three countersunk screws on each side.

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Scott,

Do you have pictures of your tray's that bridge the gap?