What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Lipstick Cam

ProCoach

Well Known Member
I'd like to shoot some video while flying. Can anyone give me an idea on what type of camera to use. Are lipstick cams the same as bullet cams? If anyone has mounted these cameras on the wingtip or tail, how did you do it? Wiring? What about special recording techniques?
 
Very cool, thanks. Has anyone used a bullet cam with the super velcro or suction mounts? They (sellers) say that both are secure, but it seems like 150+KIAS (or even less) might scrape it off. Maybe that's why Bowen went to the trouble of glassing it in...
 
I used a camera from HelmetCam (I think it is www.helmetcam.com), located somewhere in VA. The unit itself is small with good resolution, so it fit nicely into the top of VS fairing. It will take the 14V that the aircraft runs on, or, alternatively, comes with a battery pack. I also T'eed into my intercom for audio, although I have heard that placing a small mic on the inside of one of your headset cans is better, as you can hear the engine just enough. The camera then plugs into a cam-corder, which has to be one that accepts remote input for recording purposes (tough to find these days). Also, recommend a digital video camera - makes editing a lot easier.

After 250h, the thing is now failed, and worse, I did not build in a way to access it. In retrospect, I should have made the top fairing of the VS (where it is mounted) removable with screws instead of rivetting it on.

Check out the 'finale' video I made for a presentation on RV building at the end of my virtual hangar post.

Let me know if you need more info.

Jon Weiswasser
N898JW
Montclair, NJ
 
Video Systems

I'm interested in this too. My ideal system would be one or more digital cameras with HD quality & 16:9 aspect ratio, direct to a solid state digital recording system with several hours capacity. The camera would be mounted where there is no plexiglass in the optical path, produces no drag, and possiblty be remotely controlled for pan & tilt. Ha!

In the meantime, probably the best analog standard video (4:3 aspect ratio) lipstick camera I can buy to a tape or DVD based recorder, with the camera mounted in a good location, but producing drag (thinking of main gear intersection fairings); but somewhere as far away from vibration as I can get.

But I have a couple of questions, based on the one VS mounted camera that failed: Has anyone else had a camera that failed? If so, where was it mounted?

And, for those using a tape media for recording, any problems in flight, at high G?, at high altitude where air is thin?

Thanks,
bc
 
Hi All,

I hope you don't mind me posting here. I found this thread whilst doing some research.
At the moment, to get the best possible quality available from a bullet camera (same as lipstick camera) you need to connect it to a camcorder with a/v inputs. I always recommend my customers use a MiniDV camcorder to do this. As long as it has a/v inputs then it will work fine.
It is possible to get equipment that records on to memory cards or hard disks as you mentioned. However, the video has to be compressed to fit the media and so you lose quite a bit of video quality doing it this way. There really shouldn't be an issue with cameras failing due to g's or altitude but like any other piece of electrical equipment, failures happen so it's always best to account for this when building your project.
I have been working lately with a micro-light pilot who has figured a way of taking sound from his intercom system instead of just recording engine noise.
I also think that helmet mounted cameras work well in aircraft so the video shows exactly what the pilot is looking at. There is a video on our site that demostates this albeit at low quality for the web, you can get an idea from it.
If there's anything else you'd like to know about bullet cameras or recording systems then please let me know.

Best Regards
Mark
 
What's your site?

What's your web site address?

I have a Sony camcorder with composite A/V inputs, it's miniDV so no worries on that end. I've now got a handle on the everything but the VS mount and wiring. For perspective I'd like to forward look and include the fuselage. This means a tail surface mount. The skydiving guys claim that the super velcro type mount will hold it on their helmets at terminal velocity. If that's the solution, then I'll route the wires to the camcorder in the baggae compartment (RV4) and possibly use a LANC remote to control it. So...

Any ideas on non-permanent VS mounting? Where/how to insert wire through VS and still keep it removable?
 
Well yes, probably an analog video lipstick camera feeding the A/V inputs of a miniDV camcorder is the best we can do for now. But what I was looking to is the future.

As for the camcorder, all recorded video in use today is compressed in quality. The miniDV format is compressed. It is a 25 megabit per second technology, which is fairly good for a "consumer" level product. My concern over this tape format was not so much the camera, but the fact the recording is done using a spinning head (gyro) on a very fragile media (thin tape) with a fragile recording head, that used air separation between head & tape. Somewhere back in this topic, there was a post about a failure of tape based camcorder at higher altitudes. In addition, the tape is fragile in use and subject to drop outs, etc. Some of the same attributes apply to DVD camcorders, and also to hard drive camcorders, Hence my interest in solid state storage, non-hard drive, devices (for the future).

As for the (lipstick) camera; almost all of these are analog video output. First the real world image gets digitized by the imager (CCD or ?) and is then processed using a D/A conversion to an analog signal, when is then coaxed over to the A/V inputs of a miniDV camcorder when it is processed using a A/D conversion back to digital data for recording. Each one of these D/A and A/D conversions is no better than +-1/2 LSB, meaning the least significant bits are not able to be re-created; so the process itself is lossy. So again, my interest is in digital cameras where the data is left in digital form, and then recorded to a small solid state recorder in digital form. No conversions and no loss from the imaged scene. Again, this is in the future for "consumers".

I'm just trying to be a little more agressive but may have to design it myself. Right now there are some camcorders coming out that record to SD cards using the mpeg4 codecs, where the qualilty is not too bad; and you can get a covert SD card recorder that is the size of a cigarette pack at your local spy shop.

Again, my goal system: several small digital HD (16:9 aspect) cameras at various points, interfaced to a stack mounted solid state, digital recorder, recording on 16GB or so SD cards easily changed by the pilot. But will I live that long????

My current test system: analog bullet camera to SD recorder, 2 GB SD cards.
 
I work in the CCTV industry and bought some cameras, cables and battery packs a few months ago when I bought my RV-4. Well, due to the winds, I never got to use them.

However, I bought a color 480 TV Lines bullet camera with 2.2mm lens (170 degree view) that I was going to mount. I bought a 25' cable that does video/power and then I bought a 12V DC 3.5A battery supply that plugs right into the cable. (This is rechargable.)

The video end of it plugs right into my Sony MiniDV camcorder cables that allow you to record in VCR mode (think of dubbing a video) instead of Camera mode.

DaveG down in Columbus has an RV-6 that I'd like to play with this on. My company uses a few different mounts that I'd like to try - a flexible neck mount with alligator clip and a suction cup camera mount. We do a lot of Mobile DVR applications in vehicles, so I have good access to a lot of this stuff.

I'll be sure to post a video if Dave ever gets up here to Lima!

:D
 
Bill,
I record in-flight with a Sony GV-D800 editing deck (they call it a Video Walkman). Super 8 tape, digital, works fine with a remote control and a lipstick camera. G-load has not been a problem, at least up to 5. The "brick" shape is easy to mount in foam inside a small plastic box.

As an editing deck it works great, plus you can input old analog tapes from your VCR in one side and pipe digital to your computer out the other. Very useful for getting those old family tapes onto CD or DVD.

I've been using a camera from the Helmet Cam folks, but be warned that their harness isn't very practical for placing the camera at a remote location. I usually mount mine on my helmet (w/ super velcro) to fly acro in a Maxair Rocket. Downloads at:

http://www.perryhillauto.com/downloads/downloads.htm

Dan
 
Good To Know

DanH said:
Bill,
I record in-flight with a Sony GV-D800 editing deck (they call it a Video Walkman). Super 8 tape, digital, works fine with a remote control and a lipstick camera. G-load has not been a problem, at least up to 5. The "brick" shape is easy to mount in foam inside a small plastic box.

As an editing deck it works great, plus you can input old analog tapes from your VCR in one side and pipe digital to your computer out the other. Very useful for getting those old family tapes onto CD or DVD.

I've been using a camera from the Helmet Cam folks, but be warned that their harness isn't very practical for placing the camera at a remote location. I usually mount mine on my helmet (w/ super velcro) to fly acro in a Maxair Rocket. Downloads at:

http://www.perryhillauto.com/downloads/downloads.htm

Dan

Thanks, Dan. That's good information as I have the miniDV version of the Video Walkman. Just didn't want to trash it as it would be hard to replace.

GVD1000.jpg


I guess I am wanting too much, too soon, with the HD stuff and flash memory "media". I should just busy with what I have and start producing some video to share.

bc
 
Last edited:
Who ???

This is really bugging me, I remember reading somewhere in this forum about someone who has multiple cameras tail, wing tips, canopy landing gear etc. feeding into a didgital storage , that can be downloaded after landing.

Seems to be what Pro Coach is looking for.

But, for the life of me, I cant seem to find it by searching through the old forum posts.

I thought it was a Paul Dye thing, or maybe Milt, of rocket fame--------or "Rocketboy", who has a few products that some folks post links to now and then.

My best guess is that it was at least 6 months ago, and was in a post that took you to the posters own web page.

Anyone else remember this, and remember how to find it??

Mike
 
Thanks Robbie.

Man, is this the place to get answers or what??? 7 min to solve this mystery.

How about posting details, info, photos etc?

Mike
 
Last edited:
How about a DVD camcorder?

Has anyone tried one of the new camcorders that records straight to DVD? Seems that it is much easier to download that way. I'm going to have to buy a camcorder of some description - mainly for use in the airplane - and am trying to make a decision on tape or DVD. Any thoughts would be helpful.

Pete
RV-6A
 
Also be careful of that DVD recorder... they don't necessarily play automatically in your DVD player. It just means that it is recording the data on a DVD disc (4.7GB if single layer). My guess is they store as an AVI file.
 
Very Cool.

Now we're getting somewhere. I think I can replicate all of this. Now, how best to MOUNT it?

Robbie, how did you mount your cameras??

Brandon, what's up with the tape over the bullet cam?
 
The tape is just the protective stuff on the lens. I haven't used the camera yet in a plane, so I haven't taken it off.

:)
 
Bulletcam system

Hi,
Glad to see there are other out there that are into this and thought I'd share....

I have installed a system on my RV-6 that consists of 2 camera's, one on the top of the vertical stab, and another clipped to the bill on my cap. This works great for formation flying. They both feed into a standard A/B switch, which is mounted on a plate that is attached to the fuel selector tower. The camera (Sony), A/B switch, power switches are also located there for ease of operation.

Problems encountered:
Variable shutter speed - causes prop to stop, rotate backwards, forwards,etc. I don't see a workaround for this.

Lack of availability of wide angle lenses - I have experimented with lenses for the stab cam and all have been too narrow of field. I would like to get something that would be able to see at least the wingtips. That would be about 120 degrees.

Other Lipstick cam suppliers that I have used or found:

http://www.thespystore.com/bulletcameras.htm
http://www.bulletcam.com/
http://www.jonescam.tv/index.php
http://www.specotech.com/
http://www.spygate.com/

Having done professional skydiving video for many years, this aspect of video photography seems to have a lot in common with flying and RV's. I look forward to seeing others video and eventually getting some of my own out there for viewing.
Blue Skies!

Joe Blank
RV-6
N6810B
 
I just mounted my camcorder to my roll bar. If you are building an RV-8 you may have trouble with this. A tip-up -6 or -7 is another good platform for mounting an video camera either to the roll bar or the bar the seat backs rest againsted. I wouldn't glass in a bullet or lipstick cam for reasons pointed out above.

I've had really good results from the internal video.
 
Scott, I fly a 4 so this would be difficult. I like the perspective that comes from the VS, since it has the plane in view. When I flew at FCI a few years ago, they had cams on the tail, right wingtip, and one "in your face" inside the cockpit. But I cannot remember how they were mounted.

If skydivers can do it, I'm sure I can figure out a temporary tail mount. Evidently, this is trickier than I thought.
 
Last edited:
ProCoach said:
Scott, I fly a 4 so this would be difficult. I like the perspective that comes from the VS, since it has the plane in view. When I flew at FCI a few years ago, they had cams on the tail, right wingtip, and one "in your face" inside the cockpit. But I cannot remember how they were mounted.

If skydivers can do it, I'm sure I can figure out a temporary tail mount. Evidently, this is trickier than I thought.


When I built the Valkyrie, I did plan ahead a little bit for a tail cam. I ran a string through a flexible conduit from the tip to the base of the VS, and I attached the VS tip with screws rather than rivets. The idea was that I can buy an extra tip and glass in a lipstick camera, and make that interchangeable with the regular tip ....someday. The string is to pull whatever cable is necessary at the time I put in a camera.

Haven't touched that project yet....to busy flying! :D

Paul
 
aadamson said:
Long as we are on this topic...

Some nice cameras and mounts here... Still would need a way to do wide angle tho..

http://www.chasecam.com/
Expensive cameras!

I do like the mounts they have. Those are pretty slick.

I'd also be interested in that DVR. We have one at my company, but it isn't made to record video for our purposes.
 
Compact Flash DVR

aadamson said:
Long as we are on this topic...

Some nice cameras and mounts here... Still would need a way to do wide angle tho..

http://www.chasecam.com/


I like their DVR also. Uses CF (compact flash) cards and records using mpeg2 versus mpeg4. It's a step in the right direction.

And yet another source for lipstick/bullet camers is PolarisUSA


bc
 
Last edited:
VS Tip Location

Ironflight said:
When I built the Valkyrie, I did plan ahead a little bit for a tail cam. I ran a string through a flexible conduit from the tip to the base of the VS, and I attached the VS tip with screws rather than rivets. The idea was that I can buy an extra tip and glass in a lipstick camera, and make that interchangeable with the regular tip ....someday. The string is to pull whatever cable is necessary at the time I put in a camera.

Haven't touched that project yet....to busy flying! :D

Paul

I would like to do this but it would be a retrofit to an older RV-6A with the older empennage.

Anyone have an older fiberglass tip (VS-630??) lying around?

bc
 
Some other cool shots would be from the wing tip(s), belly, top of canopy or maybe a gear leg.

If you could just find a way to mount the small cam, you could do all kinds of things.
 
Try This Perhaps?

Already mounted and working a treat in my F1 Rocket.

The camera is mounted in the cowl (Left Side) and the screen folds away when not in use (see photos). In addition, I have a mini RCA plug on the panel (top left, tucked out of the way) where I plug in my regular camcorder and record away...

FLIR.JPG


FLIR%202.JPG
 
Thanks! The photos above were taken when the camera was in the left side wheel pant - note the tilted picture. Turns out that it's not a good spot as the normal vibration during taxi shakes it around too much and the mounting eventually fractures. The camera was relocated to the cowl for that reason - some strobing occurs during normal cruise RPM but during acro you can find an RPM where the strobing is negligable.

FWIW total cost $300.
 
ohiopilot said:
Some other cool shots would be from the wing tip(s), belly, top of canopy or maybe a gear leg.

If you could just find a way to mount the small cam, you could do all kinds of things.
That's my thought exactly. At FCI they can switch back and forth from the different views all while sitting in the pilots seat. That takes multiple cams, of course, but with the proper temporary mount one could experiment with different perspectives. Ground adjustable vs. in-flight adjustable. :cool:
 
Can you tell us more about the recorder? Make/Model, storage media etc...

I still think that having a multi channel recorder is the way to go, that way it would be easy to edit an awesome video together by selecting the best shots from multiple cameras recording at the same time. Seems it would be a hassle/distraction switching an A/B switch while doing maneuvers and such.
 
I personally think a cleverly mounted A/B(/C/D?) switch would make it VERY easy. Do a maneuver and if you want it recorded in another view, flip the view and do it again!

Be careful when choosing a multi-view recorder. Some of the cheaper ones record the 'quad' image as one. So, if you want camera 4, you only get 1/4th of a frame.

If you find a good one for aircraft, post the link!
 
They (FCI) would record everything to a miniDV cassette. The switching was up to the instructor pilot. Whenever a camera switch was made, that was the only signal that would make it to the tape.

Your idea of doing this at the edit is a good one... if one had multiple cams mounted.
 
I like the idea earlier of using a MiniDV recording deck. However, they are not cheap.

If I was building (and when I do), I'll have multiple cameras with their own RCA plug coming into the cockpit. I will just connect the one I want to the camera as it records. If I do a roll with the VS camera on and want the same shot with the wingtip camera, I'll yank the one, plug the other one and do the maneuver again.

The raw footage will be crappy, but Adobe Premiere Pro and other video software will make it look awesome.

One thing to remember... I believe MiniDV records at 720x480 (720 wide by 480 high). When you are buying a camera, make sure you get one that is high res. The low ends are 330 or 380. The others are usually 430, 480, 530, 550 and so on. (Above 550 or so and they are usually B&W.) Those res numbers are horizontal TV lines (as in 480). Obviously, you'll want 480 or better.

Here's the exact one I have in my pic about 15 posts ago:

http://ktlcctv.com/web/pdf/CFC2010WA2.pdf (PDF FILE - BEWARE)
 
Video help

OK. Now that all you video experts have revealed yourselves, I'm hoping someone can help me with my video dilemma. Someone filmed my first flight using a Sony video camera that recorded onto a mini DVD. I have the mini DVD, and it works perfectly in a video player, but I'd like it edited because there's a lot of material that needs to come off of it and I'd like to add a music track to it. No one I've talked to has been able to come up with a solution. I can't even tell you what format the file is in, my computer says its a "video.ts" file, whatever that is. If any of you experts point me in the right direction, I'd sure appreciate it.

Bob
I too am "free, free, free to fly anywhere I want" now that my 40 hrs are flown off!
 
Bob Brown said:
OK. Now that all you video experts have revealed yourselves, I'm hoping someone can help me with my video dilemma. Someone filmed my first flight using a Sony video camera that recorded onto a mini DVD. I have the mini DVD, and it works perfectly in a video player, but I'd like it edited because there's a lot of material that needs to come off of it and I'd like to add a music track to it. No one I've talked to has been able to come up with a solution. I can't even tell you what format the file is in, my computer says its a "video.ts" file, whatever that is. If any of you experts point me in the right direction, I'd sure appreciate it.

Bob
I too am "free, free, free to fly anywhere I want" now that my 40 hrs are flown off!

It's essentiall a DVD... Just like you'd get off a DVD. Some of the DVD recording software can edit and use the .ts files or portions of them. They can also be converted to other formats. I'm no expert, but start by looking at the Sonic products, or the Roxio ones, or the Nero ones... One of them should do what you are after.

Sorry I can't be more specific. :(
 
ProCoach... a 480TVL camera should do you well. (I'll have some test video in the next 7 days from above Leadville, CO and surrounding area.)

Bob... have you downloaded Windows Movie Maker 2 yet? If you have Windows XP SP2, you should either have it or you can get it free.

I'm not sure it'll work, but for the price, it doesn't hurt to try.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/moviemaker2.mspx

I'm not sure what a .ts file is besides that it's a streaming version of .ps MPEG-2 that DVD's use.

Good luck.
 
ProCoach said:
Scott, I fly a 4 so this would be difficult. I like the perspective that comes from the VS, since it has the plane in view. When I flew at FCI a few years ago, they had cams on the tail, right wingtip, and one "in your face" inside the cockpit. But I cannot remember how they were mounted.

If skydivers can do it, I'm sure I can figure out a temporary tail mount. Evidently, this is trickier than I thought.

I fly a 4 too and that's the only plane I've done any video in. I bought a camera mount that clamps to my roll bar from a racing supplies company and mounted my Sony video camera on that. You get the top/side of my head in flight but still a very good view. I taped my landing approaches to various airports on my way to OSH last year. Worked great.

I do like the idea of a monitor in the cockpit and a camera in the cowling. That would be useful also for short guys like me during taxi. :)
 
svanarts said:
I do like the idea of a monitor in the cockpit and a camera in the cowling. That would be useful also for short guys like me during taxi. :)

nurse... periscope :D
 
Back
Top