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Experienced "pre-punch builder" starting an RV-6 fuse build

Mycool

Well Known Member
Hi guys,

I just purchased a slow build fuse, any words of wisdom or advice on starting a 6? I have lots of experience building an rv8, rv7, and rv9.

Btw, why doesn't vans publish data on the rv6?
 
Click on the "News and Events" tab on Van's website, then click "Archives", then lastly "RV -6/6A". Hopefully this gives you the data that you are looking for.

John
RV6A (C-FNLY)
 
If memory serves, (it may not because it's been a long time), the F604 bulkhead must be matched with the specific wing that you will be using.

Back years ago, don't know if these guys still do the job, but most folks would have a Phlogiston spar made. This was a company that if you chose to, Vans would send them your spar parts and they would drill, alodine, anodize, and rivet the main spar for you and match drill the F604. It was well worth the cost to have this done.

If you don't have your wing yet, in the meantime you can be prepping each bulkhead, build your firewall, seats, battery box, borrow or build a jig, etc.
 
What's an RV-6 ? :p

The RV-6(A)s is the most successful built and flown homebuilt of all time. More RV-6(A)'s have been completed and flown than any other homebuilt. It will be 30-years since the first RV-6 first took flight next year. It was designed by hand and built from BLUEPRINTS. I was replaced by the computer designed RV-7(A). Van's still sells RV-6 parts and kits but they no longer offer new starts on the RV-6 as it was replaced in the new model lineup with the RV-7(A).
 
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Rv6 info

Ok, thanks for the links. I was able to find rv6 with all your help, seems like vans I'd seriously phasing out this model.

I've read post about "early & late" model rv6, and pre-punch and non pre-punch. Did/does vans pre-punch skins & ribs for later rv6?

I know models rv7,8,9,10,12, and 14 are prepunch.

Btw: the rv6 I purchased does have the "philosgen" spars (did I spell that right?)

Definitely look forward to talking to you guys over the next 3 months tip I finish this project!
 
Rv6 info

Ok, thanks for the links. I was able to find rv6 with all your help, seems like vans Is seriously phasing out this model.

I've read post about "early & late" model rv6, and pre-punch and non pre-punch. Did/does vans pre-punch skins & ribs for later rv6?

I know models rv7,8,9,10,12, and 14 are prepunch.

Btw: the rv6 I purchased does have the "philosgen" spars (did I spell that right?)

Definitely look forward to talking to you guys over the next 3 months til I finish this project!
 
I've read post about "early & late" model rv6, and pre-punch and non pre-punch. Did/does vans pre-punch skins & ribs for later rv6?

I know models rv7,8,9,10,12, and 14 are prepunch.

The later -6 wing kits had some "pre-punched" skins but the ribs were not punched. The 7 and up models are not "pre-punched" although that term is used a lot, often incorrectly. They are "matched hole" construction, meaning the skins and underlying rib/ bulkhead both come with the holes in them. "Pre-punched" as in the wing skins of the later RV-6 and early RV-8s were an evolutionary step towards the current state of the art, matched hole.

The -6 fuselage was never even pre-punched, so it is entirely done by hand. As Gary noted, it's the most popular homebuilt ever, so that's hardly a reason not to take it on as a project.
 
Thanks Jeff,

I sincerely appreciate the information.

I wonder if I send the skins back to Vans that they would prepunch them for me.
 
Thanks Jeff,

I sincerely appreciate the information.

I wonder if I send the skins back to Vans that they would prepunch them for me.

I would place my money on NO they won't.

You will come to find that it is not a big task to lay out and drill these holes.

Remember, you are building an RV6, not just assembling it like you would a 7....

Read your instruction manual and research some of the RV6 build sites (found on Van's site) and help form this site, you will have an enjoyable build.

It has been a long time since anyone has asked a real build question.
 
Rv-6

Someone will be along shortly to tell you how the -6 has the finest handling characteristics of all the RVs, or at least the side-by-sides. It won't be me. I believe it is likely true, but I haven't flown enough of the others, so I'll let someone else do the honors. :)

Enjoy your build, they are amazing aircraft!
 
Thanks Jeff,

I sincerely appreciate the information.

I wonder if I send the skins back to Vans that they would prepunch them for me.

Personally, I would of preferred Van's not have punched my RV-6A wing skins. Unlike the true pre-punched kits where all of the holes line up, only having one item pre-punched makes locating all of the wing ribs with the holes in the spars and in the skin a little more time consuming.
 
Personally, I would of preferred Van's not have punched my RV-6A wing skins. Unlike the true pre-punched kits where all of the holes line up, only having one item pre-punched makes locating all of the wing ribs with the holes in the spars and in the skin a little more time consuming.
This is very much true. It's also a great example of this mis-use of terminology. The "true pre-punched kits" are known as matched hole. Sorry but I'm a stickler for proper terminology.
 
Build

I do enjoy building, and love to see the progress with the build. I know I asked the antichrist question in the "6" world of trying to speed things along. I'll keep everyone informed from what comes from the vans factory.
 
Personally, I would of preferred Van's not have punched my RV-6A wing skins. Unlike the true pre-punched kits where all of the holes line up, only having one item pre-punched makes locating all of the wing ribs with the holes in the spars and in the skin a little more time consuming.

I'll second that. I had non-PP empennage skins but PP wing skins. I started aligning ribs on the spar per the plans but realized just in time they needed to be aligned with the holes in the skins even if different from the plans. Just one of the many gotchas. Don't believe the plans are always correct. A standard response from Van's support in the old days was "just make it work." Also make sure which side the plans show - they do switch on occasion, even on the same drawing. Oh, and be prepared to search all the drawings for some details. Van had a habit of just adding details to blank space on any tangentially related drawing rather than create a new drawing. Even the parts got bagged like that. After I made some fuselage gussets I found them in a bag with the rudder pedal parts. They were .063 like the rudder pedal parts so were probably punched at the same time and thrown in the same bag. I guess it helped hold down the kit costs but we pay for it with our time. Enjoy it, it's a great experience. I'm finishing my 2nd -6.
 
Build

I do enjoy building, and love to see the progress with the build. I know I asked the antichrist question in the "6" world of trying to speed things along. I'll keep everyone informed from what comes from the vans factory.
 
If you're building a non-punched kit, or any kit for that matter, you'll find this to be one of your favorite tools very quickly:

http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/product-p/3011.htm

The marking gauge allows you to quickly make an accurate line parallel to any edge... something that you'll do about 500 times if you're laying out your own rivet lines.
 
Hi Mycool,

I have been building a RV6 for a very long time ... no holes in my kit :) ... I made the spar as well .. I have no web site .. but loads of photos .. let me know what you like to have a look at .. now working on the system install .. and hope to be in the air in a year or two (haha ;-) ...

Goods luck with you build ! Its great fun ...

My best advice would be to not blindly believe all the dimensions on the blueprints ... measure one way .. the back measure to see if the dimension make sense ...
 
This is very much true. It's also a great example of this mis-use of terminology. The "true pre-punched kits" are known as matched hole. Sorry but I'm a stickler for proper terminology.

Thanks for the correction on the terminology in my statement. I feel I should help you also with the terminology in your signature. The correct term for "Tail" is "Empennage" :rolleyes:
 
New rv

You guys are great, I just learned I'm building an emp dragger, I think this may catch on!
 
Hi guys,

I just purchased a slow build fuse, any words of wisdom or advice on starting a 6? I have lots of experience building an rv8, rv7, and rv9.

The big difference for you will be using a jig as opposed to the jig-less building possible with the CNC pre-punched kits. The jig itself does not have to be perfectly accurate, it just has to be STABLE. You can shim parts into the jig for accuracy but it all goes out the window if the jig warps as you build. So use seasoned wood and check measurements often; re-shim if needed.

Other than that, I remember the bulkheads were pretty floppy and it was handy to screw them to some particle board to stiffen them up. Cut the particle board just under the size of the bulkheads and it will help to keep them from twisting as you strap the skins in place. I also found it handier to pre-drill the bulkhead flanges and then drill the skins from the inside rather than trying to find the bulkhead by measurement from the outside.

And you probably know this from your previous experience but plan your wiring runs before skinning the framework. Trying to drill through bulkheads next to a skin can be a real PITA. The plans don't mention anything about wiring, so it's easy to forget about it until the structure is already complete.
 
RV-6 resources

Since you are building an older kit, you need to go to the older sources to find answers. The Matronics email list has lots of great information in the archives from notable people like Gary Sobeck, Rosie, and Sam Buchannan.
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/index.htm

Lots of other resources here as well, with the supplemental instructions from Frank Justice being the most helpful.

http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan/index.html
(towards the bottom of the page)

A little searching and you can find some great builder websites as well.

All of these resources and many more have gotten my very slow build RV-6 to the point in may just fly this year.

Kevin
RV-6
 
Info galore

Thank you all for the info.

The links will take time (well spent) preparing for the build. I also ordered the tool from fly boys. I can't wait to use it, I see so many uses!
 
Technique

Is it a good idea to do all the skin layout and drilling before hand?
I have not yet read through the manual, I'm actually waiting for it but do I drill the skins undersize?
 
Be sure to RTFM. It's a different beast from the matched hole kits. If you don't have PP skins then you build the structure first, then lay the skins on the structure and trace the structure on the skin with a sharpie. You use the outline to pattern the holes. Use a straight edge to align the holes in the center of the rib flange tracing and a rivet fan to space them. Once you're sure all the holes will hit the flange where you want them, then you can drill the holes. Mark a centerline on the structure flanges and when you put the skin back on the structure the centerline should show up in the holes you drilled. That's a perfect world. The reality is that even straight ribs will wander when the skin is clamped down. So you need a pick or other way to get things realigned. Once you can see the centerline in all the skin holes do you drill thru them thru the ribs and cleco.

Interpreting the tracings and getting straight, evenly spaced rivet lines is part of the art form. If you have PP skins that is taken care of but you need to tweak the structure spacing so the centerlines will fall where the holes are.
 
Be sure to RTFM. It's a different beast from the matched hole kits. If you don't have PP skins then you build the structure first, then lay the skins on the structure and trace the structure on the skin with a sharpie. You use the outline to pattern the holes. Use a straight edge to align the holes in the center of the rib flange tracing and a rivet fan to space them. Once you're sure all the holes will hit the flange where you want them, then you can drill the holes. Mark a centerline on the structure flanges and when you put the skin back on the structure the centerline should show up in the holes you drilled. That's a perfect world. The reality is that even straight ribs will wander when the skin is clamped down. So you need a pick or other way to get things realigned. Once you can see the centerline in all the skin holes do you drill thru them thru the ribs and cleco.

Interpreting the tracings and getting straight, evenly spaced rivet lines is part of the art form. If you have PP skins that is taken care of but you need to tweak the structure spacing so the centerlines will fall where the holes are.

Since you are going to drill the skin twice, make the initial hole only 1/16, and then drill it out to #41 when the rib centerline mark is visible through the hole as stated above.

One other option some builders used was a large mylar sheet as a template. Cut it to the same size as the skin, lay it on top of the structure and simply mark the hole locations.
 
A third option (already mentioned previously in this thread)... which is probably the easiest... is to predrill all of the rivet hole layout in the substructure.
Then put the skins in place and match drill from the inside. You can use pieces of plywood cut from the shipping crates to makes stiffeners for the tail cone bulkheads to keep them straight while drilling. Use a hole saw to add holes around the perimeter for clamps. Using this process assures that you will never come up short on edge distance.
 
A third option (already mentioned previously in this thread)... which is probably the easiest... is to predrill all of the rivet hole layout in the substructure.
Then put the skins in place and match drill from the inside. You can use pieces of plywood cut from the shipping crates to makes stiffeners for the tail cone bulkheads to keep them straight while drilling. Use a hole saw to add holes around the perimeter for clamps. Using this process assures that you will never come up short on edge distance.

its been a long time, but I think this is how we did it. back drilling works nice.
a few tools that I was going to suggest that you may not have that you will either need or at least find valuable. Spring loaded center punch, fan spacing tool, and 90 degree angle drill.

Another good idea is to put a piece of 3/4" particle board as a table top for at least one work bench. then drill thru the part you are working with and into the wood and cleco to hold the part.
 
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