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Another FAA registration/airworthiness SNAFU

Radioflyer

Well Known Member
Looking at documents for an RV, the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations both declare the "Builder" the same way and "Model" the same way. All perfect with those two documents.

The registration, however, declares the other co-builder as the manufacturer and the model designation somewhat different from what is on the AWC and OpLims. Its obvious all documents refer to the same aircraft, but the make and model designations don't match up between registration and AWC/OpLims.

Does the registration have to change or does the AWC/OpLims have to change. Is a whole new re-certification process (DAR re-inspection, 8130-6 application, new AWC...) the only way to correct this situation?
 
Looking at documents for an RV, the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations both declare the "Builder" the same way and "Model" the same way. All perfect with those two documents.

The registration, however, declares the other co-builder as the manufacturer and the model designation somewhat different from what is on the AWC and OpLims. Its obvious all documents refer to the same aircraft, but the make and model designations don't match up between registration and AWC/OpLims.

Does the registration have to change or does the AWC/OpLims have to change. Is a whole new re-certification process (DAR re-inspection, 8130-6 application, new AWC...) the only way to correct this situation?

I hope you only have to change the AWC / Ops Limits because any DAR can do that same day, and even the FSDO if you find a competent one, but if you have to do anything with Registration then that's going to be more complicated and take longer, even if a DAR could do it, since it would have to go eventually to Oklahoma.
 
They must match

They do need to match each other, and that should have been caught on the airworthiness certification. Only one builder will be able to get the Repairman’s Certificate. If you need to change it, call the registration branch in OKC. They are usually pretty quick to fix something like this.
Then find a DAR or FSDO inspector to issue new/amended operating limitations so they match.

Make sure the data plate on the aircraft matches as well. You only need Make (builder), Model, and SerialNumber on the data plate

Vic
 
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Decide on the “Make”, which is the builder, that you want, as only one builder will be able to get the Repairman’s Certificate.

Am I wrong, or can the "Make" be whatever you want it to be (combination of builder names, "Van's", etc.), and the holder of the Repairman's Certificate need only show that they were the "primary builder"?

I.e., I don't recall that the name in the Make field had to match the holder of the Repairman's Certificate?
 
Am I wrong, or can the "Make" be whatever you want it to be (combination of builder names, "Van's", etc.), and the holder of the Repairman's Certificate need only show that they were the "primary builder"?

I.e., I don't recall that the name in the Make field had to match the holder of the Repairman's Certificate?

Yes, you can make it anything you want.
My point was that only one person will get the Repairman's Certificate.

Vic
 
What the GADO (long time ago) Did To Me

When I had my Rocket AW inspection, way back when, by the local GADO rep, he would not let me call it a Harmon Rocket II. He made me list is as an RV-4 - so to this day, that's how it's listed in the FAA files in OK City.

It is what it is, and I really don't care - at the time, all I wanted was the AWC, and to get the inspector out of my life - so I didn't make many waves.

Just sayin'

YMMV - but I hope for the better.

HFS

Harmon Rocket II (nee RV-4) S/N 002
 
Looking at documents for an RV, the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations both declare the "Builder" the same way and "Model" the same way. All perfect with those two documents.

The registration, however, declares the other co-builder as the manufacturer and the model designation somewhat different from what is on the AWC and OpLims. Its obvious all documents refer to the same aircraft, but the make and model designations don't match up between registration and AWC/OpLims.

Does the registration have to change or does the AWC/OpLims have to change. Is a whole new re-certification process (DAR re-inspection, 8130-6 application, new AWC...) the only way to correct this situation?

Whoever did the airworthiness inspection on this aircraft missed the boat. All identification information on the aircraft and airworthiness paperwork MUST match the info shown on the registration EXACTLY. This includes builder name (aka "manufacturer"), aircraft model, and aircraft serial number.

In the situation described, the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations should be corrected so as to show the same info as the registration certificate. The initial inspector failed in his/her duties by not correctly issuing the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. The local FSDO should be able to issue replacement paperwork with the proper aircraft identification information.

A related question: What does the aircraft's data plate show? This info MUST also match the info shown in the registration EXACTLY. If it doesn't, then the inspector missed that as well.

None of this makes the aircraft fly any better, but it might save a lot of hand wringing and perspiration if the airplane was ever ramp checked.
 
When I had my Rocket AW inspection, way back when, by the local GADO rep, he would not let me call it a Harmon Rocket II. He made me list is as an RV-4 - so to this day, that's how it's listed in the FAA files in OK City.

It is what it is, and I really don't care - at the time, all I wanted was the AWC, and to get the inspector out of my life - so I didn't make many waves.

Just sayin'

YMMV - but I hope for the better.

HFS

Harmon Rocket II (nee RV-4) S/N 002

This stuff just irritates the snot out of me...inspectors making up rules as they go (remember the red fuel caps story?) and acting in complete ignorance of the regulations and rules like this. It's things like this that make people think that all government employees are stupid, hidebound or have a bad attitude.
 
I have not looked at the data plate, but that is really easy to correct on one's own to reflect the proper documents.

Originally, there were two builders/partners. Later, one bought the other out. The AWC/OpLims (and Repairman's cert.) were written to the remaining builder. However, somehow the registration remained in the name of the now gone partner.

My guess is that the aircraft (N-Number?) was first registered and a few years later received the AWC. Is this plausible? That would be an Oklahoma mistake, not a DAR mistake, no?

On a side note, when I went through my own AW re-certifcation and OpLims updating process (about 7 years ago) I was not required to sign my OpLims. The OpLims under discussion here were made to be signed specifically to and by the builder. Hmmm, that was a new thing to me.
 
This stuff just irritates the snot out of me...inspectors making up rules as they go (remember the red fuel caps story?) and acting in complete ignorance of the regulations and rules like this. It's things like this that make people think that all government employees are stupid, hidebound or have a bad attitude.

Any time an inspector tells you "a rule", ask him/her to show you the rule.

It may be an FAR or it may be an FAA Order, but he/she should be able to show you something.
 
On a side note, when I went through my own AW re-certifcation and OpLims updating process (about 7 years ago) I was not required to sign my OpLims. The OpLims under discussion here were made to be signed specifically to and by the builder. Hmmm, that was a new thing to me.

We used to ask applicants to sign the Op Lims stating that they ad read and understand them but the Head Honchos in Washington prohibited that.
 
I have not looked at the data plate, but that is really easy to correct on one's own to reflect the proper documents.

According to FAA guidance, only the FAA or the "manufacturer" can alter the data plate. Not that this has stopped many from doing just that. But that's what the regs say.

Originally, there were two builders/partners. Later, one bought the other out. The AWC/OpLims (and Repairman's cert.) were written to the remaining builder. However, somehow the registration remained in the name of the now gone partner.

Regardless of who is the owner (past, present, or future) the manufacturer/builder name should never change. Builder, model, and serial number stay the same throughout the aircraft's life. So that identifying data should be the same on data plate, operating limitations, and airworthiness certificate regardless of who owns the aircraft.

My guess is that the aircraft (N-Number?) was first registered and a few years later received the AWC. Is this plausible? That would be an Oklahoma mistake, not a DAR mistake, no?

Shouldn't matter when the aircraft was registered. A time gap between registration and airworthiness is fairly common in homebuilt aircraft. But my previous statements still apply. The builder/manufacturer, model, and serial number shown on the registration certificate MUST match the info shown on the airworthiness certificate, operating limitations and data plate. If it doesn't, the person/entity that issued the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations made the mistake.

On a side note, when I went through my own AW re-certifcation and OpLims updating process (about 7 years ago) I was not required to sign my OpLims. The OpLims under discussion here were made to be signed specifically to and by the builder. Hmmm, that was a new thing to me.

As Mel mentioned, this used to be common practice, but is no longer allowed.
 
Just wanted to note this related detail of information from my FSDO.

My plane is model "VANS RV-8" which is on the data plate, and the ops limitations, but on the special airworthiness certificate it is just listed as "RV-8". When I inquired about this a while back:

"After looking into this and getting with one of the supervisors, everything is in order as it should be. For many of the experimental home built aircraft they are shortened on the paper copy. When I look the aircraft up in the system, everything is showing as a VANS RV-8, so everything is all set for you and there is no need for a replacement certificate."
 
One other question. If there are two builder's, do both names go on the registration and/or application for Airworthiness or only one? Is it possible that the name of both builders is technically on the records but being left out of the registration or AWC just for brevity?
 
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