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Wingtip Nav lights/strobes. Whelen Microburst or Aero LED's?

KazooRV-9A

Well Known Member
Patron
I'm at a decision point for wingtip Nav lights and strobes. Wondering what builders are preferring currently?

The Microburst II are advertised as "Product does not meet the requirements of 91.205 (c), required for night flight.", whatever that means to an Experimental build?

The Aero LED's look interesting.

Any other's that should be considered? The lower cost options are enticing.
 
I'm at a decision point for wingtip Nav lights and strobes. Wondering what builders are preferring currently?
The Microburst II are advertised as "Product does not meet the requirements of 91.205 (c), required for night flight.", whatever that means to an Experimental build?
The Aero LED's look interesting.
Any other's that should be considered? The lower cost options are enticing.

Just as a point of clarification, lighting requirements are no different for experimental aircraft. §91.205 applies equally for certified and experimental aircraft.
 
FlyLED

Consider FlyLED. Lots cheaper if you don't mind assembly. I thought it was fun.
Can't comment on how well they work at night but they were really bright in my shop.
I bought The Works wingtip set up and tail beacon.
https://flyleds.com/
 
I’ve used the AeroLed NAV/Strobes on two RVs and like them. For the current RV-10 project however I’m looking at “The Works” from FlyLED.

In addition to the AeroLED NAV/Strobes, I installed two FlyLED landing lights in each wingtip of the RV-8 (one aimed for taxi, one for landing) and like the product. Thus my leaning now to go with “The Works” on the new project.

Carl
 
In terms of Whelen products, the correct wingtip nav/strobe unit that meets the requirements of 91.205(c) would be the Orion 650E. Corresponding tail light is the Orion 500.
 
So the Microburst stated that they aren't Part 91 compatible (for some reason), do the FLY LED lights meet part 91? I didn't see an answer on their site...

Do they need to?

This was what I see in Part 91......

14 CFR § 91.209 - Aircraft lights.
CFR
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§ 91.209 Aircraft lights.
No person may:

(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon) -

(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;

(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft -

(i) Is clearly illuminated;

(ii) Has lighted position lights; or

(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;

(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft -

(i) Has lighted anchor lights; or

(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or

(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

[Doc. No. 27806, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996]
 
I believe it's not certified per part 91. However , I believe,
as long as your lighting will comply with the part 91 standards then its good to go. Just like all the antenna that are designed for experimental, none of them are certified for part 91, but they perform just as well and hence the reason we use them. There are so many old c172 rentals that have certified lighting that are less bright with their old incandescent light bulbs than the newer LED.
 
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Legally, the FARs limit EAB aircraft to day, vfr. Your operating limits will contain a waiver of that, if you equip per 91.205. For EAB, The FAA seems willing to accept a statement from the manufacturer that products meet the standards, in lieu of full-blown TSO compliance. I asked Paul if FlyLEDs ‘the works’ meet the standards, he said yes. Note this is for nav and anti-collision lights. Landing lights are not required.
Edit. Obviously you also need something to give nav and anti-collision coverage in the aft direction.
 
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... do the FLY LED lights meet part 91? I didn't see an answer on their site.
Hi Andy
When I was doing the maths on making Flyleds lights I think I shifted a decimal point somewhere. The first reaction we get from customers usually goes along the lines of "Holy ___ these things are bright!", even when they are doing their testing with a 9 volt battery.
Yes we exceed the brightness requirements by a significant margin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMbWofT6jQ

Be seen, be safe!

 
you are asking for opinions so you will get some.

For a ready to go out of the box installation I prefer Aero LEDs. They are lower profile and seem to be less prone to damage compared to the Whelen bubble lens. I have installed and run both makes on different airframes but I will default to Aero LEDs.

For a DIY or kit route I would definitely use FlyLEDs. I have only purchased their awesome little wig wag module but was very impressed with customer service and read nothing but good things about them.
 
I do like the FLY LED's for sure.

But..... what are the Part 91 "Standards"? Where can I see reference to maybe Lumens, or Candle power etc.

And can you see the RV-9 wingtip Nav lights from the rear of the aircraft? With the way the cutouts are made on the stock FG wing tips, I don't see how the Nav lights can be seen from the rear. What has to be done to make my RV-9 night VFR legal?

First I've really thought about the nav/strobe lights on the wings...
 
The TSO's for position lights (TSO-C30c) and anti-collision lights (TSO-C96a) point to SAE documents for minimum performance standards (8037 and 8017A). The SAE docs are not public domain ($85 each).

Hopefully the light suppliers purchased the specs and can verify their (full) compliance.

We have a little joke about some products being "inspired" by the requirements.
 
I do like the FLY LED's for sure.

But..... what are the Part 91 "Standards"? Where can I see reference to maybe Lumens, or Candle power etc.

And can you see the RV-9 wingtip Nav lights from the rear of the aircraft? With the way the cutouts are made on the stock FG wing tips, I don't see how the Nav lights can be seen from the rear. What has to be done to make my RV-9 night VFR legal?

s...

You are correct, the standard Vans lights, imbedded in the wing tips, do not cover the aft direction. You need additional (white) nav light(s), and anti-collision lights, in that direction. The standard Vans configuration is a combination strobe/white light in the bottom, aft end of the rudder.
Also, I have found the standards on the internet, but I don’t recall where. You have to search for them. As already mentioned, the faa refers to SAE standards which are for sale, not free, to the public.
Edit: the intensities and angular coverages can be found in FAR 23.1385 and following.
 
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Holy cats,, in reading 23.1387 it’s not quite clear to me without a drawing, as to what the para’s outlining dihedral angles for unobstructed lighting, are defining...

My local RV buddies are saying that with for example, Aeroled’s installed in the wingtip cutouts, that requirements for night ops are met. I haven’t stood behind their aircraft at night with their nav lights on to see, but if you’re supposed to see the wingtip nav’s unobstructed, I don’t see how that would be possible.

So are my local RVr’s actually NOT night ops legal? And if not, WHAT needs to be or has been done by others, to meet FAR night lighting requirements?
 
Holy cats,, in reading 23.1387 it’s not quite clear to me without a drawing, as to what the para’s outlining dihedral angles for unobstructed lighting, are defining...

So are my local RVr’s actually NOT night ops legal? And if not, WHAT needs to be or has been done by others, to meet FAR night lighting requirements?


Try to look as legal as you possibly can.
 
My local RV buddies are saying that with for example, Aeroled’s installed in the wingtip cutouts, that requirements for night ops are met.

So are my local RVr’s actually NOT night ops legal? And if not, WHAT needs to be or has been done by others, to meet FAR night lighting requirements?

At least for the -10, both Vans and FlyLed sell a combination white nav + strobe that mounts aft-facing in the bottom of the rudder.
 
New product

Hi guys - I am aware that other suppliers are active in this thread as well. So here I am as well as a paid up advertiser. Most of you will know me as the guy behind the RVBits Intersection Fairings of which there should be over a thousand installed by now. My real passion is electronics and I have rolled around this idea for a long time.

Please have a look at my light modules as well. It is a fairly new development. I call it my lockdown project which it is. So far they are performing as advertised and we did not have a failure. OK - low numbers but I have to start somewhere. I am attaching two pictures of them installed on my own RV7A.

Some notes:
RV Light Module – A World First – well I could not find any other products like this. Backtrack a bit. We here in SA went to Level 5 lock down late in March. I could not see myself doing nothing during that period and have decided to to start with an idea that I have been rolling around for the last two years or so.

I can post the whole thought process and how it has evolved, but decided to just present you with the final product.

-: A modular design with a Nav Light, Strobe Light and Landing Light all in one.

-: A Modular design where the end user can swop out each light module as well as each Power Supply

-: Adjustable with one screw

-: Three canned Power Supplies in order to eliminate RF Noise

-: Easy installation or retrofit without even removing the wingtip

-: 400 Lumens Nav Light

-: 2750 Lumens Strobe Light

-: 1500 Lumens at 11 degrees Landing Light

-: 5A total consumption
 

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FlyLEDS for me :)

I have a full set of 7-Spot Landing lights in my RV-10 and they are fantastic. I also have the Wingtip Navs, rear strobe. I cant say enough about them.

I also believe Paul can do a "completed" solution for anyone that does not want to assemble themselves.

So if you just want a plug and play, I believe he does that as well. Just give him a shout out and see what he says.
 
If you go AeroLED's get a quote from Vans - last time I checked they had the most volume and the best prices I could find.
 
I'm at a decision point for wingtip Nav lights and strobes. Wondering what builders are preferring currently?

The Microburst II are advertised as "Product does not meet the requirements of 91.205 (c), required for night flight.", whatever that means to an Experimental build?

The Aero LED's look interesting.

Any other's that should be considered? The lower cost options are enticing.

If you plan to fly at night then I would recommend our Orion series which is TSO approved. The Microbursts and Blaze series are recommended for daytime VFR only.

FAR Part 91.205

(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the following instruments and equipment are required:

(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Approved position lights.

(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft.


"Approved" is kind of vague, however the Orion Series is TSO approved even if the regulation doesn't specifically call out needing a TSO approval.

Decades ago civil government authorities created a performance standard for the categories of exterior lighting on aircraft. The overriding purpose of exterior aircraft lighting is to provide a uniform safety of flight for all aircraft. The standard for regulatory lighting means a Gulfstream has the same opportunity to see and avoid as a Cessna 172 does. Manufacturers cannot pick and choose their own methodology for evaluating light output, or hand pick pieces of the lighting standard that allows them to call their light compliant, approved or certified. When a Position light is combined with an Anti-Collision light in a single assembly ALL aspects of the product must comply with ALL aspects of the standard. Products that are able to comply with all aspects of both a Position light (as defined in FAR's) and an Anti-Collision light (as defined in the FAR's) may submit their data package for issuance of an FAA TSO. The 'how bright is it question" or "is product A brighter than product B" becomes thousands of test points that demonstrate to the FAA the product complies. The Technical Standard Order is the FAA mechanism to independently verify the product meets the minimum performance standards, “close enough” to the FAR’s just doesn’t cut it with the FAA.

Discussions to the performance of non TSO exterior lighting products should therefore be left to the community of people who willingly choose unapproved products opting for their own standard and assuming their own risk.

Minimum performance standards exist for safety of flight reasons only. ALL US registered aircraft without exception, flying at night, should only be using lighting that meets the requirements per the FAR’s. If the claims of alternate lighting solutions are so far superior to the approved ones, it stands to reason they’d also have the TSO letter to accompany the product. Look for the TSO Documentation as a minimum. It’s available from the FAA (website) or from the manufacturer, if they have it.

Thank you!
 
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Thread a few years back on same subject (not going to find it) commented that "not certified for . . ." more likely means the manufacturer did not want to pay the time and cost of getting FAA certification, and thus provide a more affordable product. Does not necessarily mean the product does not meet specs.
 
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