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Wheel swap (nose for tail)

DaleB

DaleB

Well Known Member
The kit I bought second hand is a 7A. The fuse and finish kits are unopened, as they were delivered from Van's. I figure I have a few months before I'll be starting on the fuse. I really don't want to start the debate here, and I'm not soliciting nose vs tail wheel advice. I have read and heard all of the arguments on both sides, and still have not really made up my mind 100% either way, and won't have to for a little while yet. But... I am thinking about building this as a tail dragger.

I called Van's to see what my options were if I decide to go that route. Around $2K for the parts to build it as a -7, of which most seems to be the engine mount. None of the stuff I have is returnable; it's been out over 6 months and I'm not the original purchaser. Now, in the grand scheme of things, $2K isn't a ton of money - but it's not chicken feed, either. What's the wisdom of the assembled experts (that's you guys) as to how easy or difficult it will eb to sell the 7A specific parts - engine mount, nose gear, whatever else? And there's a pair of steps I guess I wouldn't need.

Of course if someone finds him (or her) self in the opposite situation, we should talk.
 
2k is nothing in the grand scheme of building/owning the plane. Build what you want, there is no way to change your mind after the build for $2000.
 
You will likely find that you can expect to get 50 cents on the dollar for the parts. You will find someone that can exclude those parts from their order and buy yours. The cost of the headache for the buyer will be the 50 cents on the dollar. Local is best in your area to reduce shipping charges that eat into your margins. Selling them is no problem.
 
lancef53 said:
2k is nothing in the grand scheme of building/owning the plane. Build what you want, there is no way to change your mind after the build for $2000.
Click to expand...

While I agree that one should build what one wants, it is possible (and not all that difficult) to change things later. I did this with my 9A to a 9 and there are several others here on the forum who have done similarly. Cost is basically the engine mount, gear legs, tail assembly and a few other minor bits. Ended up around $2500 for me. I sold the original legs, mount etc. for about $1000, so the total cost ended up maybe $1500 plus some labor.

I agree that one gets about 50 cents on the dollar for such sales.

Greg
 
Did almost the same with a 9A conversion to 9

Except the finishing kit was not purchased at the time. I had no problem in selling the 9A mains and misc other parts here on VAF. Come to find out Vans has a special part number for conversion kit to a 9. I would however Keep the two steps and install them on the 7. My thanks to the previous kit owner for installing them every time I get in! Aside from some limited visual on taxi the wheel on the rear is the way to go.
 
Yeah... so far the UNIVERSAL advice I have gotten from nearly every single RV owner has been to go with the tailwheel. Even the tech counselor who came over yesterday to take a look at the empennage... "Tricycle gear? Too bad, that's a mistake."

I have yet to hear anyone say, "Gosh, I sure wish I'd built mine with a nose wheel". As for resale value -- first off, I'm really not concerned about that because I'm not building it to sell, I'm building it to fly until either I can't fly any more, or can't get into the cockpit. And while TW planes in general might not be quite as popular, TW RVs seem to be preferred.

I think I'll ponder it while I build the wings. In the mean time I'll see if I can get some TW training and make a decision. Thanks for the feedback, guys.
 
I'll add another vote for Tailwheel. Tailwheel RV's are just SO docile, and have decent visibility, there's no need for a nosewheel unless you have some really compelling reason (super intricate and busy taxiways, a CONSTANT 20kt x-wind, etc.)
 
You didn't mention canopy style, but if you make the decision to go with tailwheel , I would also go with slider canopy.
 
9 to 9A

I went the other direction. The fuselage I bought was set up as a tail wheel model. For my wife, a tail wheel was a deal killer and I wanted a nose wheel model too. If I remember, the parts from Vans - they have a "kit" already to make the change either way, was about $2000. Now I have a TW motor mount and gear legs on my shelf. I may sell them or keep them in case I want a change later. I looked at a motor mount that worked for both and they are available, so that is an option.

The change was pretty easy except for the weird angles you have to contort your body into to get the main gear mounted when the panel is already installed. Drilling out rivets to install the steps is another step that isn't the most fun. Overall, I believe I spent about 6-10 hours making the change. I did not remove the TW mount in the back of the fuselage. That would be a job.

I am happy with the change and like the looks of it on the three wheels. More important is my wife who wants to take lessons is happy with the change. That was an easy trade for me.
 
DennisRhodes said:
Except the finishing kit was not purchased at the time. I had no problem in selling the 9A mains and misc other parts here on VAF. Come to find out Vans has a special part number for conversion kit to a 9. I would however Keep the two steps and install them on the 7. My thanks to the previous kit owner for installing them every time I get in! Aside from some limited visual on taxi the wheel on the rear is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Now, That is an understatment.....................:eek:
 
DaleB said:
Yeah... so far the UNIVERSAL advice I have gotten from nearly every single RV owner has been to go with the tailwheel. Even the tech counselor who came over yesterday to take a look at the empennage... "Tricycle gear? Too bad, that's a mistake."

I have yet to hear anyone say, "Gosh, I sure wish I'd built mine with a nose wheel". As for resale value -- first off, I'm really not concerned about that because I'm not building it to sell, I'm building it to fly until either I can't fly any more, or can't get into the cockpit. And while TW planes in general might not be quite as popular, TW RVs seem to be preferred.

I think I'll ponder it while I build the wings. In the mean time I'll see if I can get some TW training and make a decision. Thanks for the feedback, guys.
Click to expand...

Be sure to do some time in a side by side so you will know what to expect.

The least you should do during your build is install the tail wheel structure in the tail cone. And also watch where you locate things on the firewall, the motor mount for the dragger has more restrictions near the sides. Then switching from one to the other would be really easy. The "A" mains are so easy to remove from the spar on a 7, I would finish as an "A" and put some time in your log book. Then if you find that you want to switch, the down time would be short and your parts will still be worth 50%. And along the way, you might pick up the parts that you need for 50% and also save big $$$ each year on your insurance.

BTW... Your tech counselor is an A$$!!
 
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Mains

Rockwoodrv9, I think the mains you have are the pair that was from my 9A kit. Sounds like the project is coming together. Everything work out on the gear change?
 
gasman said:
BTW... Your tech counselor is an A$$!!
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Not at all. Heck of a nice guy, in fact. His reaction also matched that of almost every person I have met who's flying an RV. But - like i said, I do NOT want to start another holy war here, and I have at least a few months to make up my mine. I was just asking the question about the conversion parts.
 
DennisRhodes said:
Rockwoodrv9, I think the mains you have are the pair that was from my 9A kit. Sounds like the project is coming together. Everything work out on the gear change?
Click to expand...

Dennis, I think you are right! Everything went well with the change. I was surprised it went as fast as it did.
 
I waffled on the TW decision when I was at that point and went the 7A route.
I even omitted the steps and didn't trim the verticle stab bars thinking one day I might change it to a TW.
Last year, I finally decided to take my 7A out of service to do the conversion.
Like Greg, I'm very happy I did it.

BTW, you'll have to remove the "A" from your signature.:rolleyes:

Update: I sold my nose gear, engine mount & main gears without having to advertise.
When people heard I was converting they came to me & I gave them all a great deal.
 
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Forget about comparing all the pro's and con's. Go with what you want. I tried making a list of pro's and con's and it leads to the nosewheel. But happiness = TW (at least in my case)

The list...
Insurance=cheaper for nosewheel
I had no experience in TW
nose wheel = safer
visibility is better with nosewheel
blah blah blah...

The reality...
Insurance is within $200 after the first year
RV TW's are easy to fly
Visibility is not a problem with TW

It all boils down to what do you want. I built the 7A originally and was never happy. I converted to the -7 and it was the best thing that I ever did. The conversion takes ~ 100hrs, but it is obviously much less if you are starting from a bare kit. I don't recommend the steps on the TW. I removed them from my fuse after the conversion and have zero trouble getting in with the TW configuration.

If you call Van's they will do everything in their power to push the nosewheel. I finally had to tell them to "sell me the parts because they look cooler than nosewheel and I want them!"

Selling the -A parts should not be a problem. There seem to be plenty of people that want to go the opposite way. You will not get top dollar, but really $1-$2k in airplane dollars is nothing. You'll spend way more than that on gas in 1 year of flying.

Bottom line... build what you want or you're not going to be happy.
 
I left the steps on mine and am happy I did so. Not much speed penalty and much easier for me and Julia to get in and out.

Greg
 
No steps on mine but then I knew my -9 was going to be a TW version from the start. No steps installed but I can see why people would want them.

The RV's are VERY easy TW aircraft to take off and land, the flying part is the same.

I found the max cross wind for my -9 is right at 35 knots. It took the left 73 feet of a 150 foot wide runway to do that and one little scrape under the right wing (I think I hit a rock as I have one line in the paint, it didn't even go into the fibergrass.) Realistically, I would set the limit at 25 knots.

That is HUGE and not something to try until you get really comfortable in your RV!

Would I build mine again as an ?A?, no way! They are just such nice flying aircraft. Besides with tailwheel time in your logbook, you can fly some really cool airplanes. For example, I did my last biannual in a De Havilland Super Chipmunk.
 
Selling parts

I converted to TW after I had riveted the fuselage side skins. I had the opportunity to send back most of the remaining A parts to Vans. The others sold on this web site in a manner of minutes.
 
You have the perfect chance to upgrade the tailwheel from the vans tailwheel assembly. I just ordered mine from Aviation Products after much researching VAF threads. Getting the tri gear leg socket brackets out of my fuse was a real pain as they were already installed in my project. I will be flying off of grass strips mostly so tail dragger was my choice. The o-360 engine mount for the 7 is 1600$ and the spring mount and spring is 150$. My project was a quickbuild 7A. I am hoping to sell my parts and recoup part of the cost.
 
MikeyDale said:
You have the perfect chance to upgrade the tailwheel from the vans tailwheel assembly. I just ordered mine from Aviation Products after much researching VAF threads. Getting the tri gear leg socket brackets out of my fuse was a real pain as they were already installed in my project. I will be flying off of grass strips mostly so tail dragger was my choice. The o-360 engine mount for the 7 is 1600$ and the spring mount and spring is 150$. My project was a quickbuild 7A. I am hoping to sell my parts and recoup part of the cost.
Click to expand...

You're correct in that the 7A gear weldments are a real pain to get out.
Now I know why some leave them in. But, it's about 15lbs for both so out they went.
I ended up using a sawsall on one as I had fuel & brake lines snaking through them and there isn't a lot of room to manuever. (I drained the fuel from the line prior)The spar bolts had to be backed out due to the lack of space to spin the nuts off.

BTW, Here's my photo of the RV7 Hybrid. Some said they were my training wheels.
http://www.3dsky.us/RV7/Images/RV7_Hybrid.jpg
 
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Well, I've officially started work on the wings. I spent all day today (re)building the wing stand, and brought the crate of right wing home from storage (the left wing is in a much bigger & heaver crate, and is ready to skin). I'll ponder the question while I build the wings. I figure I'll stop and think about it once a week and ask myself what I really fell I should do on THAT day -- trike or tailwheel? When the wings are done I'll tally up the results. :)

Hey, fair is fair. And I might gets some tailwheel time by then.
 
So I realized the other day that the only RV I've ever actually sat in was a 7. While looking at something else, I saw a top-down shot straight in from above the cockpit of a -9A. Did not realize those main gear weldments stuck RIGHT into the middle of the cockpit. Yikes! Looks like those would suck up a lot of leg room and be a real PITA to work around getting in and out.

Factor or no factor?

I really wanted to go down to Sun & Fun but my wife can't get any time off work that week. I wanted to go down there with her to look at interior bits, avionics, and of course take a look at other peoples' RVs for ideas. Now it looks like we might have to go to Oshkosh instead.
 
Dale,

The weldments really aren't too bad in the cockpit. Depending on your leg length, the back of your leg might touch them when you are sitting in the plane. I'm 6'2" and never really had an issue with them. Getting in/out is a non issue. In fact, you can step on top of them with dirty feet and avoid the seats.

Now routing your fuel lines is another story. What a PITA...
 
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