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I did my first Snow/Ice Landings today!

helodriver

helodriver

Member
OK, I know it wasn't an RV, but it was truly a learning experience. Did a couple of Touch and Go's in a King-Air 200 today. It was kind of scary at first. There was more traction/control than I expected. The biggest tip was don't touch the brakes!! Sorry, I know its not RV related, but I had to share.

Terry
 
I Tried Some Phase 1 Snow Ops Too

The weekend before last I decided to see how my RV-6 would perform in a few inches (3 or 4) of unploughed snow. I was worried about the small wheels - and the wings & tail and other delicate parts being so close to the ground and the blizzard of snow created by the prop on take off. However the only problem was that I couldn't hold 1700 rpm on the brakes during the pre-flight mag checks and had to make do with 1500 rpm instead. The cold, dense and dry air must have compensated for the extra snow drag because take-off wasn't noticeably shorter than usual but the landing roll was very short with no bakes needed - or desired.

snow1.jpg


snow2p.jpg


Which reminds me I need to post a comment on the cold oil temp discussion :)

Jim Sharkey
RV-6 Phase 1
 
Be very careful landing in that depth of snow if it warmed up and re-froze. You could possibly flip over when you break through the crust. Have fun in the cold, great performance numbers.
 
Another concern is getting snow in the wheel pant area, freezing then causing problems upon landing.
 
I'm going flying in the am to test out my cold weather mods on the -12. Should be around zero F. Thanks for the tips.

It's fun to be the first one to land on fresh snow. Do a T&G and see if you can get the wheel in the same tracks next go around. That will keep you humble. OH! and watch out for the snow plow!
 
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Making Tracks May Not be a Good Idea

It's fun to be the first one to land on fresh snow.
Larry:
While you probably have a great deal of experience with winter flying, many of the readers of these forums may not have that advantage. Around the Great Lakes, it's not unusual for snowfall to vary more than six inches over a distance of less than 25 miles. Taking off from an uncontrolled airport and making tracks in an inch of (known) dry powder is a lot different than dropping into a field with four to six inches of wet snow on the pavement. Not recommended. Even on relatively "clear" pavement, it's not unusual to have very poor braking action - a potentially big problem, especially in a crosswind.
Winter takeoffs and landing from any field where there's limited snow removal, sanding, and braking action reports is a high risk proposition. Throw in torque, p-factor, lack of ABS, lack of reverse thrust, and a single engine and the risk is even higher.
Call ahead, ask for runway conditions, and ask what type of AC have been taking off and landing. Then assess your own skills. Just trying to keep everyone safe.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
I remember my first landing on a frozen lake. Phantom U/L, touched down nice (hey, you know it's level and smooth) and was feeling pretty good rolling out. Then I figured out I had to stop before I hit the rocks on the shore. No brakes, it won't steer, nothing worked. Finally I kicked full right, gave a blast of throttle and spun around. Another blast and I was stopped. From then on I shut off the engine when I touched down. Nothing would stop it with the engine running! Won't be trying that in the RV...

Bob Kelly
 
Frozen brakes

The other risk of using brakes is melting and refreezing water, locking the wheels. I fly on straight skis in the winter, sometimes I have had to keep flying/take back off for better crosswind control. Landing in my own tracks is mandatory, first landing to drag the lake and see if there is overflow for the next time arround, and tracks to take off in if the snow is much over 20 inches.
Yesterday I was trying to get the pre inspection power run numbers on a Caravan (650HP). Dragged the ice grates 300 ft brakes locked, steering with rudder mostly. FUN!

AWM
 
I don't remove my wheelpants in the winter, and frequently fly of our grass strip with 2-3" of snow. If there aren't any drifts I can fly, otherwise I work on the rocket. I've had the wheels freeze up and its a non-event, they break loose easily.
 
terrykohler said:
It's fun to be the first one to land on fresh snow.
Larry:
While you probably have a great deal of experience with winter flying, many of the readers of these forums may not have that advantage. Around the Great Lakes, it's not unusual for snowfall to vary more than six inches over a distance of less than 25 miles. Taking off from an uncontrolled airport and making tracks in an inch of (known) dry powder is a lot different than dropping into a field with four to six inches of wet snow on the pavement. Not recommended. Even on relatively "clear" pavement, it's not unusual to have very poor braking action - a potentially big problem, especially in a crosswind.
Winter takeoffs and landing from any field where there's limited snow removal, sanding, and braking action reports is a high risk proposition. Throw in torque, p-factor, lack of ABS, lack of reverse thrust, and a single engine and the risk is even higher.
Call ahead, ask for runway conditions, and ask what type of AC have been taking off and landing. Then assess your own skills. Just trying to keep everyone safe.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
Click to expand...

Excellent points. Going to a different field you have no idea if there are snow drifts. They could ruin a fun day!
 
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snow piled up on the side of the runway

When the runway is plowed, and the snow pushed to the side, keep in mind that your perspective on where the runway is will be off by the depth of the snow. Depending on the airport weather, this can change by a couple of feet in a day.

It's never cool to flare at level of the top of the snow banks, and then plop onto the runway. This catches a lot of people the first time they fly into a snowy airport.
 
snow/ice landings in alaska

Not exactly RV related, but ran across some interesting old photos. Dad used to fly the twin (piper comanchee) into some snowy alaskan airfields. Not a big deal if you exercise some caution and common sense. A few extra things to think about. Though, the plane does look a bit out of place next to a bunch of bush planes with skis.:rolleyes:

photo1.jpg

photo2.jpg


BTW, anyone ever put skis on an RV?
 
RV-12_in_snow__Large___Medium_.jpg


Too icy to even taxi today, but I posed the -12 for a picture. The F-86 in the background sits on a pedistal at the airport.
 
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Snow Ops

To add another perspective, our limit for snow was 3" of fresh "dry" snow or
1/2" of slush. That was in an E-3B (B707)!

BTW, braking action in fresh snow is really good, even in a big airplane!
 
jbagley said:
Not exactly RV related, but ran across some interesting old photos. Dad used to fly the twin (piper comanchee) into some snowy alaskan airfields. Not a big deal if you exercise some caution and common sense. A few extra things to think about. Though, the plane does look a bit out of place next to a bunch of bush planes with skis.:rolleyes:

BTW, anyone ever put skis on an RV?
Click to expand...

Lots of good advice - btw I was just doing some local and pattern work in known conditions just to see how my RV-6 behaved :)

Not sure if anyone has put skis on an RV. I have often wondered but always assumed that the wings were too close to the ground for the really rough stuff that the ski guys often go in for. There are some local pilots who put skis on Champs, Cubs and a rather elegant C170. They'll go out to meet up with each other and snow mobilers on local lakes. One problem I am told is the possibility of "heaves" on otherwise flat ice where is has tried to expand, broken and pushed up a ridge of ice.

I also just noticed that a seasonal lake runway has opened again this year in NH.

Jim Sharkey
 
Who are you !?!?

Exactly where in the evolution of RV did we turn into a hen house of woosy grandmother stick pushers! RV pilots where once real stick and rudder pilots here. Let the Cessna/Piper tin crushers endlessly wine on rec.aviation about how nobody should step a pinky toe out of doors in if it's over 10 microns of snow.

Meanwhlie, let the guy from Vermont (I'm thinking, just _MAYBE_ he knows winter weather) F L Y !
 
BruceMe said:
Exactly where in the evolution of RV did we turn into a hen house of woosy grandmother stick pushers! RV pilots where once real stick and rudder pilots here. Let the Cessna/Piper tin crushers endlessly wine on rec.aviation about how nobody should step a pinky toe out of doors in if it's over 10 microns of snow.

Meanwhlie, let the guy from Vermont (I'm thinking, just _MAYBE_ he knows winter weather) F L Y !
Click to expand...

Point WELL taken. :D

No woosies allowed.
 
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