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PC680 batteries

alcladrv

Well Known Member
After using my first PC680 in my RV-7A for about 5 years, I've only managed to get an average of 2 years for each of the next 5 batteries. I haven't used any battery tender or trickle charger. At the EnerSys (manufacturer of the PC680) booth at OSH, I discussed my experience by asking him if the the manufacturing process had changed. He said it had not and sounded genuinely interested in what he thought was my lackluster experience with the more recent batteries.

I gave him this forum website so he could checkout the PC680 comments himself. And I encourage any of you currently at Oshkosh to seek out the EnerSys booth in Hangar A 1042 and share your experience with him.
 
I just replaced my original PC680 this past weekend after 3 years of flying. It had become very slow to crank. I typically fly 3-4 times / month, and don't leave it on a charger either. I'd consider 3 years pretty good for a battery that lives a pretty tough life. Will have to see how long this new one lasts...

Chris
 
Too many anecdotes to ignore

Call me a cynic, but I?m sticking with the theory that they down graded the design which was too good for their bottom line.
 
Got my PC680 for 7 years now and only for a couple of weeks it is starting to show signs of weakness.
In the company I work for we also use PC680 to crank AEIO-580 and we average 4-5 years of lifetime. Most of the replacement are preventive rather than needed.
 
Ran a PC680 for about a year. Started getting slow to crank. Switched to a lithium (yeah, I know!) and it has been flawless for 3 years and almost 400 hours.
 
Pc680

Just had the same issue on the RV14. Battery had a mfg date of 2016!! But was sent as new from VANs a year ago. Out of the box it was always asking for a higher charge (14.7 v) during all our runs/ flights. Then not even one year out of the box and only 12 hrs of flight in phase 1 , we went to fire up and got only clicking!!!!!
Another RV partner had two new ones he bought from battery mart that he wasn't going to be using.. Opened those boxes and both had a mfg date also of 2016!!! We used one and it's working great, charging is normal 14.1-2. It's been fine so far.
Checked the battery that came out of the 4. It was new also and had a mfg date of 2016!!!
Interesting ???
 
similar experience

first PC680 went 4 years, second went 3, and the last one failed at 10 months. charging system consistently at 14.1v. Will be looking hard at lithium options next time around.
 
I killed a few early on but my last one was still going strong after 6 years when I proactively replaced it 2 weeks ago.

(Update 7/20/20: It died 07/18/2020......)
 
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Weird. I wonder what the difference is. Charging systems, usage pattern, or what? I seem to recall Vlad getting a ridiculously long life out of his. Mine's been in the RV-12 since 2010 or 2011. Every year we plan & budget to replace it, and every year after sitting for a week or two (or three) it measures 12.7 plus with no load, and never fails to crank. So, we just keep it in service for another year.

I bought the Genius charger that Van's sells. We don't connect it when the plane is not flying, I just use it once in a while if we've been running the EFIS or fuel pump on the ground and I think it may need topping off.

I have no doubt whatsoever that you guys' experiences are true, but I really do wonder what the deal is.
 
Battery differences

As we know, the PC680 is not recommended for aircraft. I purchased the "aircraft rated" equivalent (Hawker SBS J16) 2.5 yrs ago from Battery Mart. So far so good.

https://www.batterymart.com/SEARCH....1&filter.top_level_category=Odyssey Batteries

Here are the differences per conversation with Odyssey:

Thank you for using EnerSys/Hawker aviation batteries.* Although both of these batteries have the same footprint and performance characteristics (as Kathy notes below), the J-16 features a flash arrestor and glued valve cover for improved safety in aviation applications.*

The SBS J-16 also features full FAA-PMA certification for numerous Cessna and Piper models (when used in conjunction with certain aftermarket STC modification kits) ? although this is not so pertinent in the context of experimental aircraft.*I?d like to add Dan Soltan, our Aviation Sales Manager, to this conversation in case you have further / more in-depth follow-up questions.*

Hello XXX, Thank you for contacting EnerSys/ODYSSEY.The ODYSSEY PC680 is commonly used in the experimental aircraft industry and has the same performance specifications and footprint as the FAA-PMA SBS J16 PowerSafe model battery. Neither is a knockoff of the other. They are each manufactured and marketed to fulfill specific market needs.

One additional feature of the SBS J16 is use in Aerobatic Aircraft.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line....Same power output as the PC680 but the more expensive J16 has a few extra features for certified aircraft with an STC. Stick with the PC680.
 
More Odyssey Info

Here is more info I received from Odyssey about the PC680's life expectancy and battery "freshness" from online vendors:


Typical service-life expectation for both batteries is about two years. In ideal conditions with minimal abuse, they can and frequently do last longer. On the other hand, such factors as repeated overdischarge, parasitic drain, etc. can shorten life. Many variables, but long story short: service life in the PC680 vs. the SBS J-16 is apples-to-apples.

Thanks to our proprietary Thin Plate Pure Lead technology, both batteries can also sit on the shelf for up to two years with no degradation of performance (assuming storage at or below 77?F). That said, receiving freshest possible product can certainly give added peace of mind.

I?m adding Dan Soltan back to copy ? he might have some insights on which authorized distributors/vendors move inventory most quickly (and thus would tend to have fresher stock on their shelf for you and your fellow Van?s operators).
 
After my 2 year PC680 leaked and created corrosion around the Vans battery holder, I switched to EarthX. No more Odyssey. The time to repair and treat the damage is greater than the cost difference.
I also highly advise not to permanently, rivet, attach the battery holder to the firewall (RV14).
Sealed batteries can leak.

R
 
for sale

I have a PC680 battery which is what I put in when I built plane 2009. After about 5 years I had an electrical issue and replaced the battery and alternator, but that was never the problem. I fixed the electrical wiring, but still have my original battery sitting on the shelf. It still reads 12 volts the last time I checked. I don't think I will ever need this if someone is interested in it. Let me know, pay for the shipping plus $45 and it is yours.
 
PC680 lasted 7 months.

My PC680 died today after only 7 months in service on my new RV-7A. Odyssey tech support was very helpful and said they would send a replacement. Sounds like a dead cell. Symptoms are it just dropped to 11 volts overnight and won?t charge during flight.
 
PC680 lasted 9 months

I switched to a PC680 because of all the good reports. Mine lasted 9 months so I switched back to my Walmart Lawn Tractor battery. No more battery issues and it just cost me $30. I replace it every 3 years for piece of mind.
 
I use the PC680. I buy them on a corporate account at Batteries Plus.
I swapped mine at 4 years 500 hours as a precautionary move. When idle I usually keep mine plugged in to a smart charger/maintainer called Battery Saver popular with Barrett Jackson type car freaks. Never had an issue.
 
3 years

After showing some symptoms of weakness, my 680 stopped turning my engine over this summer, after almost 3 years of flying and 1 year sitting in my garage.
The symptoms included: starter dropout on the first crank attempt; fault codes on my Vertical Power...first one was Runaway Flaps, and toward the end, I sometimes got the flaps and a Runaway Trim fault, and sometimes the giant red "X" on my SkyView saying the entire VP system had an "internal fault".
I assume these happened when the voltage was drawn below acceptable levels.
The new battery has solved all those issues.
 
Is it possible that some of the shorter lived batteries are counterfeit?
Everything else seems subject to counterfeit, why not these?
 
My experience with PC680

My RV-12 has a VERY low demand on the battery. Takes 5 seconds or less to start it. I am sure that makes a major difference. Mine is 10 years old, and I have 1,360 hours on it.
 
PC680 ok after all

I need to make an update post about my Odyssey PC 680. Turns out it’s OK. I bought a charger specifically for AGM batteries and it charged my battery up fully overnight. Turns out I had let the battery discharge too much doing software updates and then the alternator couldn’t charge it back up during my routine short flights. I will be putting the charger on for trickle maintenance in the future. Odyssey tech support was most helpful.

If you have what appears to be a low-voltage AGM battery try using a charger specific for AGM batteries. I used the G1100 by NOCO Genius.
 
I am not flying yet but have some experience with these batteries that may be of interest. I have two motorcycles that I have had for over 15 years each. One of them has some electrical draw on it to keep a computer system up. The other does not. The batteries last about 4-5 years in the one with no draw and about 1 year in the one with the computer.
 
I have used several PC680 batteries over the years in two aircraft and have not been impressed. they do not perform as well as advertised. Last time I needed to replace one I bought a Full River HC20. This is exactly the same in size and shape as an Odyssey PC680, except that it is yellow. The full river is 5 years old and has performed far better than the Odyssey. It is also a lot cheaper here in Australia. I don't know what US prices are.
 
The PC 680 was the first battery I used in my plane. It was used 7 years and it's performance was never stellar. I figured 7 years was a pretty good run so it was time to replace it. All the numbers, (CCA, Capacity etc), on a new PC680 were all LOWER than the first. Like I said, even with better numbers on the first 680 the performance was never stellar.... meaning even when new it didn't turn the prop with the "gusto" I see on other airplanes around my field. Through VAF in another post, I learned of the APEX. Like 30 bucks plus shipping. All those battery numbers on the APEX were far better than the 680. The APEX spins the prop like crazy and after a year now... I'm still happy.

EDIT: I just checked the numbers on both batteries.
The PC 680 weighs 15.5 pounds, amp hour capacity of 16, cold cranking amps of 170, and the price $129.
The Apex weighs 13.5 pounds, amp hour capacity 22, cold cranking amps 420, and the price $35.
 
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The PC 680 was the first battery I used in my plane. It was used 7 years and it's performance was never stellar. I figured 7 years was a pretty good run so it was time to replace it. All the numbers, (CCA, Capacity etc), on a new PC680 were all LOWER than the first. Like I said, even with better numbers on the first 680 the performance was never stellar.... meaning even when new it didn't turn the prop with the "gusto" I see on other airplanes around my field. Through VAF in another post, I learned of the APEX. Like 30 bucks plus shipping. All those battery numbers on the APEX were far better than the 680. The APEX spins the prop like crazy and after a year now... I'm still happy.

EDIT: I just checked the numbers on both batteries.
The PC 680 weighs 15.5 pounds, amp hour capacity of 16, cold cranking amps of 170, and the price $129.
The Apex weighs 13.5 pounds, amp hour capacity 22, cold cranking amps 420, and the price $35.

Glad you are getting good service with the Apex....I've also used non-PC680 batteries and found them to be a reasonable alternative for mild-climate operations. But I've found the Odyssey to be a good value since I've always gotten several years service from them.

However......I doubt the Apex folks have figured out a way to bend the laws of physics enough to have three times the cranking potential with less mass than the PC680 for $30. I suspect there are some variations in how those specs are calculated. :)

Also.....be very sure your battery cables are well-supported so they can't stress the terminals. The terminals on the lower-priced batteries are usually much less robust than the ones on the PC-680. You don't want a stiff, non-supported cable snapping off a battery terminal.

And...keep the trickle chargers far, far away from the AGM batteries!
 
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Tim, The battery specs I quoted above are for the Apex Battery UB12220. It is a sealed lead acid absorbed glass mat battery.

Sam, Thank you for your post. I've had the Apex in for a year and it spins the prop with as much gusto today as when it was new. You thoughts are interesting though.... making me wonder that I'll be away from my home field someplace. Go for lunch and come back ready to go home only to find a dead battery. I hope not. I'll keep an eye on the terminals too.

Follow on to Sams previous post. The PC 680 although never with stellar performance was still working after 7 years. I just figured it was time to replace it. I don't expect to get anything close to that with the apex. I'm hoping for 3 years.
Even with shipping I save $72 over the 680.
 
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Please confirm the APEX is the same size or smaller than the 680? I have a Vans PC680 firewall battery box.

R
RV-14
 
Read my post #30 regarding size because I have the same tray and it was.... almost.... a perfect fit.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=154494&page=3&highlight=APEX+BATTERY

Thanks for the heads up....that was my concern. I tried the EarthX and it too is a tad ?thicker?. Then I came across possible temp. excedence? issues in the area of the battery box, got concerned and retreated to a new PC680. My first 3 year one started leaking up top, created some corrosion. Now APEX.
Almost a $1000 later to end up favoring a 35$ battery.

R
 
Sam, can you clarify this?

This has been discussed in many threads over the years. To summarize:

The AGM batteries will hold a very high percentage of their full charge for several months.

Many PC680 batteries have suffered premature deaths due to abuse from trickle chargers that are not designed for AGM batteries. This includes most trickle chargers.

If the plane is flown regularly there is no need to risk damaging the battery with a charger since the battery will maintain voltage for a long time.

For more details run a search on trickle chargers to find several threads on this subject. However......in spite of strong evidence to support this position, there are still pilots who insist on using the chargers.....their minds are made up, possibly influenced by the common use of trickle charges on lead acid batteries in the automotive community. :)

There is one possible exception to this line of thinking. If an aircraft has a significant "keep alive" drain then charging between flights, if they don't occur very often, may be necessary. But this should be done with a charger that is very carefully selected. A much better course of action is to design the electrical system to avoid this scenario.
 
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I have been using 680 batteries in my aircraft since 2006. As an IFR guy I switch out the batteries every two years. I have old 680 batteries driving my Gator, my lawn mower, my fuel pump and one for use around the farm.
Not all of them are exactly the same. They all work well but occasionally one may be better or worse then average. My 13 year old unit is still working fine in the other equipment.
This year I looked at an alternative and noted the ?certified? version was about 60 dollars more then the ones I had been using. The interesting thing is that when you compare numbers the SBSJ-16FAA PMA has significantly more power.
680 hot cranking amps vs 520 in the standard 680 battery and with the CCA, cold cranking amps, the numbers are 300 for the FAA version vs. 170 for the one I have been using.
The size and weight are exactly the same, terminals as well.

I spent the extra sixty dollars and the battery has noticeably more power. I think it is worth the extra sixty bucks.
 
Saying that putting a charger on a PC-680 is bad and will ruin the battery is not correct. Use the correct charger and the battery will last a long time.

Two things kill these batteries:

1. Overcharging at too high a voltage or for too long using a charger that doesn't adjust the charge according to the battery's condition

2. Not charging the battery enough and letting the voltage fall too low for a period of time.

The best thing to do is to fly at least once a week with an alternator that puts out the correct voltage range. If that is not possible, then the proper charger will extend the battery's life. Over the years as I flew less, I had a problem with the batteries not lasting more than a year or two. I bought Yuasa battery maintainer/chargers and leave on the batteries any time it's sitting. This has improved my battery life to 4 years so far and the battery spins the prop very well.

There are cases where people have used the wrong charger and ruined the battery - all chargers are not the same. I just want to clarify that using a charger on the battery is not going to destroy it if you use the correct one.
 
Why doesn't everybody just go with the B&C batteries and be done with it? I think This One is what RVs use. Personally, I use the BC 100-1 24 AH. It cranks the p-1-s-s out of my high compression engine and I'm on year four now.
 
Why doesn't everybody just go with the B&C batteries and be done with it? I think This One is what RVs use. Personally, I use the BC 100-1 24 AH. It cranks the p-1-s-s out of my high compression engine and I'm on year four now.

Probably because for most of us (thousands?) the PC680 works very nicely. That B&C sure looks like a PC680 .....but glad you are pleased with the larger B&C.

My first PC680 went eight years, the present one is on year six (never been on a charger..... :) )
 
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I have been using 680 batteries in my aircraft since 2006. As an IFR guy I switch out the batteries every two years. I have old 680 batteries driving my Gator, my lawn mower, my fuel pump and one for use around the farm.
Not all of them are exactly the same. They all work well but occasionally one may be better or worse then average. My 13 year old unit is still working fine in the other equipment.
This year I looked at an alternative and noted the ?certified? version was about 60 dollars more then the ones I had been using. The interesting thing is that when you compare numbers the SBSJ-16FAA PMA has significantly more power.
680 hot cranking amps vs 520 in the standard 680 battery and with the CCA, cold cranking amps, the numbers are 300 for the FAA version vs. 170 for the one I have been using.
The size and weight are exactly the same, terminals as well.

I spent the extra sixty dollars and the battery has noticeably more power. I think it is worth the extra sixty bucks.

Tom, I wrote this on another thread. Below is a response from several people at Odyssey. Basically the two batteries are the same. I replaced the SBS J-6 after 2.5 yrs.

Thank you for using EnerSys/Hawker aviation batteries. Although both of these batteries have the same footprint and performance characteristics (as Kathy notes below), the J-16 features a flash arrestor and glued valve cover for improved safety in aviation applications.

The SBS J-16 also features full FAA-PMA certification for numerous Cessna and Piper models (when used in conjunction with certain aftermarket STC modification kits) ? although this is not so pertinent in the context of experimental aircraft.*I?d like to add Dan Soltan, our Aviation Sales Manager, to this conversation in case you have further / more in-depth follow-up questions.*

Hello XXX, Thank you for contacting EnerSys/ODYSSEY.The ODYSSEY PC680 is commonly used in the experimental aircraft industry and has the same performance specifications and footprint as the FAA-PMA SBS J16 PowerSafe model battery. Neither is a knockoff of the other. They are each manufactured and marketed to fulfill specific market needs.

One additional feature of the SBS J16 is use in Aerobatic Aircraft.
 
Speaking of lead acid batteries, does anybody know if they have cycle limits? I replace my PC680 every two years on average. The battery takes over 2000 start cycles per year. It never sees the charger and never runs flat but the initial cranking power is not there.
 
All lead acid batteries have cycle limits but the short bursts used on starting, assuming it starts right up don?t take that much out of the battery so if the battery is charged back up after each use it would last a very long time. Most good AGM batteries can take 500 cycles down to 20% capacity something that would never happen in a light aircraft before they might need replacing. If the battery has been well cared for it should last close to 6 years while retaining somewhere between 50-80% of original capacity...even then you could continue to use it for a period.
 
Cranking Time v Battery Life

I didn't read much in this thread about the engine size, compression ratio, charging voltage, and the amount of time and cranking power required to start engines when folks reported problems with battery life. My Lycoming four cylinder aircraft is equipped with two electronic ignition modules and typically requires no more than 2-3 seconds to start. I have noticed other aircraft that require 10 to 15 to 30 seconds of cranking before the engine fires up. And sometimes they have to repeat this process. Needless to say that my first PC680 battery lasted for 6 years and my next one lasted about 6 years without ever exhibiting any sign of weakness, and I only replaced them as a preventative maintenance measure. I fly about once a week and the master voltage consistently reads 14.3v. The only time I ever used a battery charger on my aircraft was in the hanger after I installed and spent a a few hours configuring my new Dynon HDX panel. So far, I'm 1 year into my newest PC680 battery and it is not showing any sign of weakness. I now have about 5 years (500 hours) on my rebuilt alternator and I will replace it this winter.
 
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How do you know it is bad? Will not hold a charge.

What are the failure characteristics? Voltage drops fast while starting the engine.

Have you tried putting an AMG charger on it? Numerous times.
 
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