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Should I pull the trigger on an RV-12is kit?

DanFrazer

Member
Hi All,

I've been following this forum for the past few weeks after my friend introduced me to it. This is my first post and I'm looking for some honest feedback on if now is the right time for me to start an RV-12is build.

I got my Sport Pilot license in 2017 and have about 140 hours, majority of which are in tail wheel airplanes (Cubs, Champs). I have about 10 hours in a Tecnam P92. The airport I rent the tailwheels from don't allow people to land at other airports (due to hand propping) and I've been disappointed with the other LSAs to rent in my area (maybe 2 or 3 other airplanes in hour driving radius). This is primarily what got me interested in building an RV-12is.

I wouldn't say tinkering is my favorite hobby but I do like to build stuff and get a lot of satisfaction out of making things and developing skills. I would LOVE to have my own airplane and the freedom/pride that comes with that.

Concerns:

1. I have a 3.5 year old son and another kid on the way and am worried I won't have the free time I need to devote to it. My wife and I both work full time.
2. We are thinking about getting a new house soon.
3. Economy and job security is uncertain in pandemic.
4. Wife is "so-so" on Aviation. She can be prone to motion sickness easily. So far, she's more interested in the practicality of taking the family on vacation and getting there faster than driving (sounds like RV-10 mission to me). All that said, she wants me to start the build soon so I'll stop talking about it!


Questions:

1. If I finish a couple kits (empennage and wings, for example), is it common to be able to sell the unfinished airplane if my situation changes?
2. For an airplane you built with your own hands, is the condition inspection straightforward? Or, is it more murky given there are no "plans" or assembly procedure like you're following when you build?
3. Here's one for fun since I've done some reading on here: should I prime or not? :rolleyes:

I have the feeling like I did when I first decided to get my license in 2015. It's a feeling of feeling like it's impossible, but knowing in my gut that I'll find a way to do it.

Thanks in advance for the thoughts/advice!
Dan
 
Hi All,

I've been following this forum for the past few weeks after my friend introduced me to it. This is my first post and I'm looking for some honest feedback on if now is the right time for me to start an RV-12is build.

I got my Sport Pilot license in 2017 and have about 140 hours, majority of which are in tail wheel airplanes (Cubs, Champs). I have about 10 hours in a Tecnam P92. The airport I rent the tailwheels from don't allow people to land at other airports (due to hand propping) and I've been disappointed with the other LSAs to rent in my area (maybe 2 or 3 other airplanes in hour driving radius). This is primarily what got me interested in building an RV-12is.

I wouldn't say tinkering is my favorite hobby but I do like to build stuff and get a lot of satisfaction out of making things and developing skills. I would LOVE to have my own airplane and the freedom/pride that comes with that.

Concerns:

1. I have a 3.5 year old son and another kid on the way and am worried I won't have the free time I need to devote to it. My wife and I both work full time.
2. We are thinking about getting a new house soon.
3. Economy and job security is uncertain in pandemic.
4. Wife is "so-so" on Aviation. She can be prone to motion sickness easily. So far, she's more interested in the practicality of taking the family on vacation and getting there faster than driving (sounds like RV-10 mission to me). All that said, she wants me to start the build soon so I'll stop talking about it!


Questions:

1. If I finish a couple kits (empennage and wings, for example), is it common to be able to sell the unfinished airplane if my situation changes?
2. For an airplane you built with your own hands, is the condition inspection straightforward? Or, is it more murky given there are no "plans" or assembly procedure like you're following when you build?
3. Here's one for fun since I've done some reading on here: should I prime or not? :rolleyes:

I have the feeling like I did when I first decided to get my license in 2015. It's a feeling of feeling like it's impossible, but knowing in my gut that I'll find a way to do it.

Thanks in advance for the thoughts/advice!
Dan


1. If I finish a couple kits (empennage and wings, for example), is it common to be able to sell the unfinished airplane if my situation changes? Yes that's is an option.


2. For an airplane you built with your own hands, is the condition inspection straightforward? Or, is it more murky given there are no "plans" or assembly procedure like you're following when you build? The Condition Inspection is in the RV-12iS MM


3. Here's one for fun since I've done some reading on here: should I prime or not? Prime, I did.
 
For your questions,

1. Yes, you can probably sell kit sections if you elect not to finish the plane. You might not get what you have in them, though, it might take some time, and you'd have to figure out shipping.

2. The RV-12iS is a thoroughly documented airplane. You can go to the factory site and download the maintenance manual to see for yourself what condition inspections require. See Chapter 3.

3. Not if you plan to keep the plane, since you live in a dry location. But perhaps so if you expect to sell the plane, since a potential buyer might need that.

For your concerns,

1. A very valid worry. While the -12iS is a relatively fast to build RV, it will take some time. You might be able to involve the family but given the time pressures, I'd take this one very, very seriously.

2. Except for the immediate time and money impact, this is not necessarily a show-stopper; you might wind up with a better shop for example.

3. You have a better feeling for that as to how it would affect you than any of us could. But answer 1 above does apply.

4. Yes, an RV-10 might be a better fit. For that matter, something like a Cessna 182 might do perfectly well at much less cost and way less family impact. The time spent not building can be used for traveling and while any particular trip will take longer than an RV-10, it'll be at least as fast as in an RV-12, and you don't have to build anything. You'll be flying while someone else will be in their shop working.

Here on VAF we are sort of spring-loaded to help people into the game. You should understand that might not be the right answer for you or for that matter, for any one particular builder.

Good luck!
Dave
 
I'd suggest you go for a ride somewhere, somehow, in an already built RV-12.

Do you want to fly, and keep your skills current, or do you want to build? Might be hard to do both if you work full time and are raising your kids.

I won't say all, but I would say that many have taken on building their own plane after they retire from their work career. Cash flow is better, kids are out of school and out of the house, and the hobby time is there daily to devote to doing the build, and getting it done in a timely manner.

If you'd rather fly, look for an already built RV-12 for sale. it will certainly keep you current in your pilot skills.
 
Kids and airplanes

Dan, I built my RV-10 with babies in the house - twins. It worked out better than you might guess. I could work in the shop and yet be available to help out. Both kids and airplanes require lots of time at home. Side benefit is that they have both grown into total gearheads and at 12 spend even more time in the shop than I do. In fact, we might build a -12iS together. Now if I can just figure out how to get them to clean things up and put the tools away........
 

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Dan,

I recently finished an RV-7A. My teenage son was involved in most of the build, and it was fantastic for both of us. He just turned in an autobiography assignment for a class, and wrote that the build has been the highlight of his life. It took a huge amount of time and pulled me away from my other kids far more than I would have wished.

Unless you are in a family where your wife wants to raise two little ones while you are out tinkering in the garage or hangar in most of your non-working hours, I wouldn't suggest building an airplane right now. Your kids are far more important and deserving of attention. Take them to Oshkosh when they are older. If one or both spend all day in the KidVenture airplane building section and emerge begging for you to build an airplane with them, then you know it's the right time in life to build.

A two-seater RV is difficult to use in a family environment. If your wife isn't gung-ho about flying, she's going to be even less enthusiastic about leaving the babies with a sitter to to fly with you. You can take one kid or the other flying, but that's hard to do very often because you exclude the rest of your family.

Before you get around to building, there are plenty of airplanes you can just buy. If you like RVs, you can buy them used for less than they cost to build. A 4-seat certified aircraft may be more suited to a young family. An RV-10 is very nice, but at that cost, you should also be looking at an A36 Bonanza, which is an unbeatable family traveling aircraft.

You seem to be averaging less than 50 hours per year of flight since you got your license. After my first child was born, I dropped from 150 hours per year to about 50. I felt noticeably less proficient and decided it was better to stop flying than to not fly often enough. I took a 9-year break, and then got back into it when my son asked me to take him flying. :)

David
 
For most pilots, "fast transportation" is not a valid reason for owning an airplane. Short trips are quicker by car. Long trips are quicker and less expensive and safer via airlines. Trips of 200 to 500 miles can be faster via small airplane unless you stay overnight. Then the weather will be bad the next day and you will be grounded. It would have been faster by car.
Pilots with instrument ratings and who are proficient and current will disagree with the above statements. But at this stage of your life with a young family to support, are you going to spend lots of money on a 4 place airplane and on an instrument rating? Flying is a hobby. Do not try to justify it to your wife by saying that an airplane will enable far-away vacation trips.
Family comes first. Unless they are involved in the build process, time spent building an airplane will be time not spent with family.
You could buy a used experimental airplane now and postpone building your own plane for a few years until your kids are old enough to help.
If you sell a partially built kit, you will get less than half of what you paid for it.
 
Dan, I built my RV-10 with babies in the house - twins. It worked out better than you might guess. I could work in the shop and yet be available to help out. Both kids and airplanes require lots of time at home. Side benefit is that they have both grown into total gearheads and at 12 spend even more time in the shop than I do. In fact, we might build a -12iS together. Now if I can just figure out how to get them to clean things up and put the tools away........

Thanks for this! I have a 3yr old and 6mo old - its a great reminder to keep plugging away for the end reward having family adventures with them. I've had a lot of help with the build and still might take longer than average, but I try to not let it get in the way of spending time with them now - even though there is some balance/sacrifice that needs to take place. I'm at about the same stage of build as your buzz/woody photo. My 3yr old loves sitting in 'his spot' as he urges me to hurry up and finish the airplane.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback. After reading through the comments, one of the realizations I'm coming to is that the lack of LSA airplanes to rent in my area is one of the key drivers for me wanting to build the RV. Taking matters into my own hands is attractive because I don't have to worry about availability, people abusing the airplane, or the maintenance quality.

One of the other side benefits I see with building is that the cost is low at first and total cost is spread out for however long it takes me to build. Buying an airplane puts all the cost up front. I would prefer to pay cash, but am not ready to dump $80k on a flying LSA that's up for sale. Maybe in 4 years or so, but not now.

Other options in the meantime:

  1. I could see if I could find someone who is willing to sell me a share or make a partnership for an RV-12, sport cruiser, flight design, Tecnam, etc.
  2. Rent the few LSAs in my area that will let me go on cross-country trips and see how that goes.
 
Other options in the meantime:

  1. I could see if I could find someone who is willing to sell me a share or make a partnership for an RV-12, sport cruiser, flight design, Tecnam, etc.

Exactly! Just move 235 miles north and join me in my RV-12iS build! :D
 
Dan, I built my RV-10 with babies in the house - twins. It worked out better than you might guess. I could work in the shop and yet be available to help out. Both kids and airplanes require lots of time at home. Side benefit is that they have both grown into total gearheads and at 12 spend even more time in the shop than I do. In fact, we might build a -12iS together. Now if I can just figure out how to get them to clean things up and put the tools away........

Those pics are priceless, Andy. Well done.
 
Dan,

A partnership can be a great way to share costs and effort, especially if you aligned well with your partner about how to maintain the plane.

It seems you are focused on light sport because of your sport pilot rating. If you don't have medical reasons to avoid the private pilot rating, it's not much more effort and will open up the whole world of conventional 4-seater aircraft that will carry your whole young family and can be fairly economical.

Then if you hope to travel cross-country, the instrument rating makes it more likely you'll get there and back on schedule, and reduces the temptation to do dangerous things like scud runs.

David
 
Dan,

A partnership can be a great way to share costs and effort, especially if you aligned well with your partner about how to maintain the plane.

It seems you are focused on light sport because of your sport pilot rating. If you don't have medical reasons to avoid the private pilot rating, it's not much more effort and will open up the whole world of conventional 4-seater aircraft that will carry your whole young family and can be fairly economical.

Then if you hope to travel cross-country, the instrument rating makes it more likely you'll get there and back on schedule, and reduces the temptation to do dangerous things like scud runs.

David

Yes, I have thought about that but I do take medicine for migraines that is on the no-no list from the FAA. It's a preventative medicine and I've been on it for more than 10 years with nearly zero side effects. I could try to come off of it and see how it goes. OR, I could wait 3-4 more years to see what happens with the LSA weight-increase that's been hinted at a few times.

Not holding my breath for the LSA weight-increase, but the thing about medicals that scares me is if you fail one, all the ordeal you have to go through to get it back. I don't know much about it, but I just see it as more FAA bureaucracy to get in my way unnecessarily.

What if I have high blood pressure when I see the AME because I'm nervous? If I fail trying to get a medical for PPL, does that mean I also lose my Sport Pilot privileges? If I tell this AME that I'm taking this medicine for migraines now, does that jeopardize my Sport Pilot license? Just seems like a lot of risk to take that next step....hence my desire to find an LSA I can fly and maybe, if we're lucky, FAA increases gross weight for LSA to include the 172 class of airplanes.
 
Should I pull the trigger on an rV-12is kit?

My understanding is that if you apply for a medical and are declined, you can not fly light sport with a drivers license.
 
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