Depends if you want a plug and play, hope for the best system, or one you can tweak to your exact mission profile.
I know Dan H is a big fan of the EFII. Anyone have any opinions about the system listed above? Pros and cons of each aside from price?
I have the EFII ignition system. Sold my mags and haven't looked back. Love it! It's a bit cheaper than the SDS I believe even though it's uses a lot of their components.
I know Dan H is a big fan of the EFII. Anyone have any opinions about the system listed above? Pros and cons of each aside from price?
Thank you so much!
As far as electronic ignition systems are concerned, I think the best one is, by far, EFII. After studying all the current options, EFII is what I and many others have purchased. EFII has the most aviation installs of a modern, inductive ignition and has the best reputation for quality, performance, and customer service. If you want to upgrade to EFII?s FADEC system later (including electronic fuel injection with single-lever operation), EFII gives you full credit for the EFII electronic ignition you already have.
http://www.flyefii.com/products/efii-systems/ignition-comparison/
Please check your PMs.
Jerry,
I am with Carl on the PMag except I only recommend one. My RV-6 had one PMag which gave better performance over the standard mags but when I added the second PMag, I couldn't tell as much difference.
Not true. Jeff Rose / ElectroAir has far more EI's sold than any of the others. They have been around far longer. Notice how EFII did not compare against ElectroAir. I have found ElectroAir to be the most reliable and best performance with all the EI's I've worked with. I have not tried the CPI units yet. With any EI it's easiest to use the mag timing unit and not the flywheel magnet setup. With the mag unit you can adjust the base timing a few degrees either way if you prefer.
Spend some time searching the threads on EI's, tons of opinions and info on this site.
FasGlas,
Electroair has more installs than EFII, because it has been out much longer and is an older design. The Electroair performs similarly to the Lightspeed Plasma III CDI in that it has a similar spark duration equivalent to 20 degrees of crankshaft rotation. (See Electroair FAQ #2.) The EFII system delivers full coil output over 36 degrees and has the most installs of a modern, inductive ignition. BTW, EFII did try to find an Electroair to test, but could not find a volunteer.
Also, SDS/CPI is quite vocal, but cannot come close to matching the number of EFII?s installs, satisfied customers, and successful flight experience.
On the other hand, I do agree with Ross (SDS/CPI) that it?s best for an individual to do their own analysis and make their own decision based on their own needs and missions. Those of us here on VAF are naturally biased by our own research, knowledge, experience, and decisions. Since there are a number of choices out there, anyone asking about electronic ignitions is going to get a mix of facts, opinions, and mine is the best! It?s hard to get an objective view, because everyone is so subjective! Peace to All!
It should be noted that EFII is the only ignition provider with a complete solution including a ?Bus Manager? product designed to support redundant electrical sources and keep the power flowing to the essential bus including the ignitions. In other words, an EFII-equipped engine is, in a way, self-powered via more power sources than a P-Mag-equipped engine and does not have the P-Mag?s low rpm limitations. Also, EFII has a FADEC upgrade option including full credit for an existing EFII electronic ignition system. EFII has carefully thought about the whole ?electric engine? concept; not just part of it!
As an aside:
http://www.flyefii.com/customer-projects/grove-super-legacy/
I know Dan H is a big fan of the EFII. Anyone have any opinions about the system listed above? Pros and cons of each aside from price?
Thank you so much!
Also, EFII has a FADEC upgrade option including full credit for an existing EFII electronic ignition system. EFII has carefully thought about the whole ?electric engine
Pmags suck. Klaus has the worst service in the biz and they fail. But ElectroAir is one of the best systems money can buy. That's fact.
It would be fair to mention that the computer for EFii was developed and is supplied by SDS. Also, it seems quite logical to assume the software inside the CPi uses the knowledge gained by developing the SDS computer. It may even be a copy of the ignition side of the SDS computer? Perhaps Ross could verify that?
Stop sugar-coating it and tell us what you really think.
The Lightspeed map seems to be spot on, but, well, you know the rest.
There are certainly some defensive customers in this thread, but there is also some hard data as well as some understandable and necessary correction of misinformation.
I understand how these threads can confuse some on the fence, but unfortunately when the questions asked are broad, so are the answers. This thread asks a fairly broad question about three very specific ignition suppliers, ignoring the others. Whether the omission of the others is on purpose or accidental is unknown to me, but does limit my answers since I only have direct experience with the P-mag. I can claim familiarity with the EFII product because Ross supplies the electronics for that line, but Robert has his own thing going and I am not an "EFII customer".
The bottom line is that collectively we have hard data about all these ignitions and it is clear that the application philosophy is very different among manufacturers. For example, P-Mag is a simple to install, unitized ignition that (in my experience) delivers what it claims: simple installation and better performance than a magneto. It also has a fairly locked down curve that works for most, but is "optimal" for few. The P-Mag is "good enough" for many people and it's appeal is understandable. At the other end of the performance spectrum is the CPI and SDS ignition systems. Ross provides general guidance for a curve that is easy to setup and will be every bit as good as any ignition out there right out of the box, but the system also allows TOTAL user control for those who want to optimize the system to their engine/airframe/mission. It was just this flexibility that opened my eyes to the importance of getting the curve tuned to MY airplane.
For those on the fence, ask specific questions and the collective should be able to provide data beyond "opinion".
What is your mission? (full throttle, full rich acro or LOP, high altitude cross country, or everything in between?) Customer service? Ease of installation?, etc.
Many of us are here to help, but we need to know what is important to YOU! If we have to guess, then we start assigning our requirements to you, and you get one big mess of a thread with no data and all sales pitch.
What is your mission? (full throttle, full rich acro or LOP, high altitude cross country, or everything in between?) Customer service? Ease of installation?, etc.
Many of us are here to help, but we need to know what is important to YOU! If we have to guess, then we start assigning our requirements to you, and you get one big mess of a thread with no data and all sales pitch.
So for the full throttle, full rich acro, what would be the preferred setup and why? Not trying to start a war here just trying to learn from the voice of others. Thanks everyone!
John
..
In other words, an EFII-equipped engine is, in a way, self-powered via more power sources than a P-Mag-equipped engine and does not have the P-Mag?s low rpm limitations.
...
Bill Repucci said:What would these "low RPM limitations" be?
From the E-Mag 114 Installation & Operating Guide, V27, Page ?22? of the guide:
? Emergency Power - The P-model?s internal alternator power output rises in proportion with engine rpm. Unlike previous versions, Series 114 ignitions will transition off of aircraft power (and onto internal power) as the internal power rises. Somewhere around 1200 to 1500 rpm P-model ignitions should be operating totally on internal power. At this point, internal power is the ignition?s primary power supply and the aircraft power is the backup. Transitions to and from the aircraft power supply are managed automatically by the ignition. There is no need for operator action of any kind. If you lose external power, your P-model ignition is capable of providing emergency power down to 900 rpm, and sometimes less.?
in practice it has not been an issue for me. Once powered up, it has been my experience that they will stay alive down below 700 RPM or so. There are not many airplanes where this low RPM is going to occur in flight.
I was worried about the "RPM limitations" of the P-mag at first as well, but in practice it has not been an issue for me. Once powered up, it has been my experience that they will stay alive down below 700 RPM or so. There are not many airplanes where this low RPM is going to occur in flight.
... If you want you can install backup batteries and associated wiring to provide the functionally of the pMag, you can also find fire breather ignitions that have higher spark energy. As you go down such sub-optimization curves you end up adding complexity, weight, typically reduce reliability, increase cost and you end up with an ignition that, in practical operational terms, does not performs any better...
...
Regarding performance, it has been my experience that the P-mag delivers on its promises, but it is a very limited adjustability “one size fits all” solution. After flying both systems, I am very confident that a head to head “practical operational” comparison (like the CAFE flight test series of a few years ago) between an “optimized” P-Mag installation and a CPI would show a very clear real world advantage to the CPI.
You, the pilot, should install the ignition you are conformable flying behind, not the one that is ruled "better" by some guys on an Internet forum.
We also don't have the liability of mag gears and support bearings to inspect or fail.
Bill Repucci and seconded by Mike Starkey said:You, the pilot, should install the ignition you are conformable flying behind, not the one that is ruled "better" by some guys on an Internet forum.
ElectroAir is not a CD ignition, it is an inductive ignition. It has been in aviation use far longer than EFII. I have known many pilots that have and still use their ElectroAir without one failure. I had used an ElectroAir for nearly 10 years without one failure. I now use 2 pmags and I can tell you that the 2 pmags have far less performance than 1 ElectroAir. It was originally an automotive ignition that Jeff Rose modified for aviation, than later added the MAP sensor. Jeff was bought out more than a dozen years ago and the same basic system is still being built. I have not seen a failure in any, new or old, ElectroAir systems. Any EI can be connected to a dual buss. I don't know why EFII couldn't find an ElectroAir to compare to, there are thousands of them. Heck, I have 2 complete systems in my hangar. I have nothing bad to say about EFII, I haven't tried one. I have a friend that deals and installs them and he likes them. Pmags suck. Klaus has the worst service in the biz and they fail. But ElectroAir is one of the best systems money can buy. That's fact. The only certified as well.